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Apple Modifies Boot ROM on Revised iPhone 3GS Models to Hinder Jailbreaking

i decided

I signed up to post on this forum just so I could tell everybody that this thread has caused me to decide to jail break my phone. The thing that put me over the edge was reading that I could run multiple third-party apps in the background simultaneously if I jail break. Awesome!! Piracy never came to my mind. It's all about functionality baby!!!
 
Rodimus Prime said:
so your entire argument is a play on words.

You know what the argument is about multitasking yet you are playing on words.

To me that tells me you know you lost so now are going to BS your way out of it.

Ok the iPhone can not use multiple 3rd part apps. Something all the other smartphones on the market (and hell several dumb phones) can do.
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Yeah that's much better, it's better to be correct than wallowing in ignorance and thinking you are correct.
 
It seems to me something like 80% of users are content with what Apple offers, don't give a rats tail about jailbreaking, and have no real complaints. 20% have complaints.

Of the 20% with complaints, 50% jailbreak looking to push the device to be more than Apple dreams it can be and 50% are content to be discontent and won't be bothered with jailbreaking a device they don't intend to keep. The 50% content complainers, most will walk when contracts are up, most will never be pleased. The 50% who decide to push the envelope for functionality, most will remain loyal Apple owners and will line up to buy new devices as soon as they become available. They may upset ATT or other carriers with exclusive contracts, but they serve Apple well.

It would seem that Apple has a cadre of field testers and visionaries pushing the envelope and showing them what is possible. Out of this, Apple can identify the clearly useful enhancements, and claim these functions in future updates, thus rendering the jailbreak community nothing more than a minor distraction but a great asset. Cydia will never put Apple out of the App store business, Cydia is simply too complex for most users who just want a device that works.

Apple could use jailbreakers as a lab, monitor the features these users want, and encourage the most useful ones to come into the main fold with sweet deals like better revenue sharing, or even making some apps default in the OS and paying a royalty to the developer.

Oh, and no doubt there are the unethical, some estimate that piracy runs as a relatively small % of jailbreak users. That exists with software of all types, it is simply not a significant drain to Apple given the natural forces that limit the jailbreakers and pirates.

So, apple, lighten up and look at this community as an asset, not a threat. The cat and mouse game is fine, it keeps the lighthearted from stepping over to the dark side and keeps the numbers reasonable.
 
samab said:
"Control" over your phone is over-rated --- because it's like airplane accidents, it's most likely human errors. So you are going to jailbreak your phone by exploiting a security vulnerability, you are going to use outdated iphone OS because you can't update your jailbreak iphone, and face it, you are going to visit some porn sites with your iphone that are probably loaded with viruses and trojans --- now would you use digital wallets on your iphone.
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Again and again, you have proven along with others on this thread that you have no clue how jailbreaking works, what it does to your device, and WHO worked to provide such tools as the open toolchain, cydia, pwnage...etc.

I have said it a couple of times on other threads and will repeat it again: The iPhone dev team and the other little teams that have spun around them have driven the development and the usefulness of the iPhone forward from DAY ONE. Whether it was for unlocking your device to run on any network, tethering, games, apps, terminals...etc etc. Long loooong before there was an appstore or even an iPhone elsewhere other than the states.

Hackers and people that love to tinker have always driven the computer industry forward and continue to do so.
 
techwarrior said:
Oh, and no doubt there are the unethical, some estimate that piracy runs as a relatively small % of jailbreak users. That exists with software of all types, it is simply not a significant drain to Apple given the natural forces that limit the jailbreakers and pirates.
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Given what a lot of developers are seeing, this is pretty much wrong. Piracy is a problem with the iPhone and it is a much worse problem then developers with desktop apps. You really cannot charge more for your app to compensate, and Apple is really the only one who can start fixing the problem.
 
pirates

Hey correct me if Im wrong, but can't you pirate apps even if you are not jailbroken... seems like you could just copy an app you have from your itunes to your desktop (drag it out) then email it to your friend, post it on the web, etc. then anyone can just drag it into their itunes... there you go... free app.. without JAILBREAKING
 
crkhead said:
Hey correct me if Im wrong, but can't you pirate apps even if you are not jailbroken... seems like you could just copy an app you have from your itunes to your desktop (drag it out) then email it to your friend, post it on the web, etc. then anyone can just drag it into their itunes... there you go... free app.. without JAILBREAKING
Click to expand...

Then they need to authorize it when they try syncing it.

destinationspac said:
I signed up to post on this forum just so I could tell everybody that this thread has caused me to decide to jail break my phone. The thing that put me over the edge was reading that I could run multiple third-party apps in the background simultaneously if I jail break. Awesome!! Piracy never came to my mind. It's all about functionality baby!!!
Click to expand...

YAY! Welcome to the social! (Zune HD phrase);)
 
Compile 'em all said:
Again and again, you have proven along with others on this thread that you have no clue how jailbreaking works, what it does to your device, and WHO worked to provide such tools as the open toolchain, cydia, pwnage...etc.

I have said it a couple of times on other threads and will repeat it again: The iPhone dev team and the other little teams that have spun around them have driven the development and the usefulness of the iPhone forward from DAY ONE. Whether it was for unlocking your device to run on any network, tethering, games, apps, terminals...etc etc. Long loooong before there was an appstore or even an iPhone elsewhere other than the states.

Hackers and people that love to tinker have always driven the computer industry forward and continue to do so.
Click to expand...

Precisely, I (and 99.999% of the population) have no clue of how jailbreaking works --- that's why I don't trust it on my cell phone if I want advancements like digital wallets on cell phones.

I would have to inspect every single line of the source code of the jailbreaking codes myself, compile the source code myself, jailbreak the iphone myself, and then write the source code to close the security vulnerability that Apple left behind.
 
mccoma said:
Given what a lot of developers are seeing, this is pretty much wrong. Piracy is a problem with the iPhone and it is a much worse problem then developers with desktop apps. You really cannot charge more for your app to compensate, and Apple is really the only one who can start fixing the problem.
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I bet the economical value of pirated music in all iPhones and iPods is magnitudes bigger than the economical value of pirated apps, yet this doesn't appear to bother many–just the greedy music industry. I bet many developers rejoicing here Apple closing the holes for jailbreaking, have pirated music in their devices.
 
Apple fixed a security hole

fifthworld said:
I bet the economical value of pirated music in all iPhones and iPods is magnitudes bigger than the economical value of pirated apps, yet this doesn't appear to bother many–just the greedy music industry. I bet many developers rejoicing here Apple closing the holes for jailbreaking, have pirated music in their devices.
Click to expand...

I really never liked the logical arguments that go along the lines of "everyone does it, so it is fine". Piracy is stealing. I do development for some folks, and I personally do not have any stolen music on my iPhone or computer. I guess that comes from mostly buying CDs from bands I have seen.

The economic impact to developers is probably a lot more given that developers do not have any side markets (t-shirts, soundtrack licensing, concerts) to fall back on.

The interesting part of this is that we finally have an answer to the old "if your app was cheaper I could afford to buy it". Well, most apps in the iphone store cost less then a 20 oz pop, and people are still pirating. Given that stats people have gathered, the conversion rate from piracy -> paid is very low. Since a lot of apps have an online component, this piracy is actually a continuous drain of money (server resources that need to be paid).

This all is a mute point. Apple fixed a security hole. All vendors need to close all security holes they find. We have too many devices connected to not practice this type of behavior, since someone might find how to turn this minor exploit into a massive disaster.
 
I'm not sure it's answer to "if your app was cheaper I could afford to buy it".
I think the question is more about value for money anyway, what any product is worth to you.
There's probably a convenience factor to consider. The phone is limited, people open it up and suddenly have easy access to free apps at the same time. They'll always be piracy, irrelevant of price. Offer a product for free with registration and people will still load up a one-stop-shop p2p program without feeling particularly guilty.

I don't have/want an iphone and to be honest I haven't really read this thread properly, but I'd be very surprised if this patch was about a realistic security hole.
 
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Click to expand...
 
VoR said:
I don't have/want an iphone and to be honest I haven't really read this thread properly, but I'd be very surprised if this patch was about a realistic security hole.
Click to expand...

What was patched was a security hole. It allowed people stealing the phone to copy data from the phone. The fact it was the avenue for jailbreaks is a side story. If you are a company, you want this hole fixed so you have time to erase the phone remotely.
 
mccoma said:
I really never liked the logical arguments that go along the lines of "everyone does it, so it is fine". Piracy is stealing. I do development for some folks, and I personally do not have any stolen music on my iPhone or computer. I guess that comes from mostly buying CDs from bands I have seen.

The economic impact to developers is probably a lot more given that developers do not have any side markets (t-shirts, soundtrack licensing, concerts) to fall back on.

The interesting part of this is that we finally have an answer to the old "if your app was cheaper I could afford to buy it". Well, most apps in the iphone store cost less then a 20 oz pop, and people are still pirating. Given that stats people have gathered, the conversion rate from piracy -> paid is very low. Since a lot of apps have an online component, this piracy is actually a continuous drain of money (server resources that need to be paid).

This all is a mute point. Apple fixed a security hole. All vendors need to close all security holes they find. We have too many devices connected to not practice this type of behavior, since someone might find how to turn this minor exploit into a massive disaster.
Click to expand...

I was in no way suggesting that piracy if fine. I was just having fun noticing the Robin Hood Syndrome. Piracy is stealing regardless of the economic impact, it is no worst stealing to developers that do not have side market, than stealing to the greedy music industry.

And yes Apple fixed a security hole, but also chose to market a crippled iPhone so we can't have full access at it, or even just use in the network of our choice. This is what motivate the hacker community to exploit the iPhone, certainly not piracy.
 
fifthworld said:
I was in no way suggesting that piracy if fine. I was just having fun noticing the Robin Hood Syndrome. Piracy is stealing regardless of the economic impact, it is no worst stealing to developers that do not have side market, than stealing to the greedy music industry.

And yes Apple fixed a security hole, but also chose to market a crippled iPhone so we can't have full access at it, or even just use in the network of our choice. This is what motivate the hacker community to exploit the iPhone, certainly not piracy.
Click to expand...

agreed - stealing is stealing

Given the piracy numbers, whatever the original intention, it look like the majority of unlocked users have no problem with piracy and engage in it. The interesting question for me is "Did all the people switching the network on an iPhone 3GS buy one at the full $599 / $699 price?"
 
mccoma said:
Given the piracy numbers, whatever the original intention, it look like the majority of unlocked users have no problem with piracy and engage in it.
Click to expand...

Unlocked is not the same think as jailbroken, but if you are using unlocked as synonym of jailbroken than according to Pinch Media: "To date, Pinch Analytics has received data from approximately 4.0 million jailbroken devices. About 38%, or around a million and a half of those, have used a pirated application. This estimate is low – application pirates take steps to avoid detection – but it’s worth pointing out that an individual who jailbreaks their phone is not necessarily an individual that steals applications."

http://www.pinchmedia.com/blog/piracy-in-the-app-store-from-360idev/

The interesting question for me is "Did all the people switching the network on an iPhone 3GS buy one at the full $599 / $699 price?"
Click to expand...

You can buy used iPhones, you know.
 
fifthworld said:
I was in no way suggesting that piracy if fine. I was just having fun noticing the Robin Hood Syndrome. Piracy is stealing regardless of the economic impact, it is no worst stealing to developers that do not have side market, than stealing to the greedy music industry.

And yes Apple fixed a security hole, but also chose to market a crippled iPhone so we can't have full access at it, or even just use in the network of our choice. This is what motivate the hacker community to exploit the iPhone, certainly not piracy.
Click to expand...

Except that the big 4 music labels are tiny --- you can buy the whole Warner Music Group (one of the 4 majors) for $1 billion. Apple is worth $170 billion right now.

Google's purchase price of Youtube is higher than Viacom's purchase price of Steven Spielberg's Dreamworks studio.

Google is more than 100x bigger than any newspaper, book publishers...

During the internet bubble, the poor "Robin Hood" Napster was worth hundreds of millions of dollars --- they were probably bigger than the major music studios.

Stealing music is the REVERSE Robin Hood --- it's the silicon valley billionaires stealing from hollywood millionaires.
 
fifthworld said:
Unlocked is not the same think as jailbroken, but if you are using unlocked as synonym of jailbroken than according to Pinch Media: "To date, Pinch Analytics has received data from approximately 4.0 million jailbroken devices. About 38%, or around a million and a half of those, have used a pirated application. This estimate is low – application pirates take steps to avoid detection – but it’s worth pointing out that an individual who jailbreaks their phone is not necessarily an individual that steals applications."

http://www.pinchmedia.com/blog/piracy-in-the-app-store-from-360idev/



You can buy used iPhones, you know.
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yeah, I should of said jailbroken - editing error on my part

those are one set of stats I saw - the others come from developers with a web component that "calls home" and are seeing a high % of users using a pirated version of the app.

I was actually curious on the new originally locked, new unlocked, used percentage breakdown. I figure a lot of used phones are out there.
 
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