Apple Modifies Software Update for Windows

[uaaerospace]

Windows users should be used to this behavior from Microsoft. And while I'm on the subject of Microsoft, they certainly slide their crappy messenger and Silverlight software in Mac Office and I don't want any of that crap.
And please before anyone says we should expect better from Apple, why? Apple and Microsoft are the pirates of silicon valley, at the end of the day it's business.

Even if you assume your statement about Windows users is correct, it still doesn't mean that the option should be selected by default. You download a program called "Software Update." You don't expect it to automatically install some new application during a routine software update.

I will criticize ANY company that does this, including Apple.

 

[clevin]

Are you serious? Windows users should be used to this behavior from Microsoft. And while I'm on the subject of Microsoft, they certainly slide their crappy messenger and Silverlight software in Mac Office and I don't want any of that crap.
And please before anyone says we should expect better from Apple, why? Apple and Microsoft are the pirates of silicon valley, at the end of the day it's business.

just because windows users are victims of this type of practice, thats exactly why they hate it. and im serious.

i dont care what mac users think. you want to make a windows app? then think for windows users.

office didn't offer u silverlight and opt-in when update itself. did it?

 

[lamadude]

I'm surprised that apple uses such cheap tactics and it obviously should not install any new apps by default. I don't want to see thunderbird pop up during my next firefox update either.

 

[leddedup]

Apple remind me of the pigs from Animal Farm. First they tell you how evil the farmers are (Micro$oft), and then after you've bought into the cult, it's 4 legs good, 2 legs better. Puh-lease, for all the bull that Micro$oft took for integrating IE into Windows, not laying the same blame on Apple for trying to force their browser on people is hypocritical. Put a banner ad in iTunes about your great browser (which it's not, but hey, that's marketing), and let people choose it for themselves. But hey, what are we to expect, this is the new paternalistic Apple, the company that knows better than you do what products you should be using.

 

[MartMcD]

I seriously cannot understand why so many people seem so worked up about such triviality! So Apple checks the box to download Safari by default... so what? Its no different in my eyes to Firefox, MS or any other software company determining that you'd be better off downloading their latest version by default. Call it underhand, call it devious, but be realistic - if you (as a user) aren't prepared to actually spend the slightest bit of time determining what you're actually installing on your computer, then its your own fault if you end up with something you don't want (and lets face it, this is Safari, not some sneaky trojan). As was mentioned by another poster, so many Windows installers I've ran seem to want to installer other software that is completely un-necessary (Google Toolbar is the one that most frequently appears) - but I'm old enough and sensible enough to not just blindly click OK to whatever my computer tells me... those options have also been checked by default, yet I've noticed no outcry about that - thats why its even more odd that via an Apple software updater, that it should seem odd that Apple might want to try to plug their software to users! Seriously, is it that big a deal?

I write software for a living (and for Windows I might add)... whilst it may not seem like its a good thing to default to downloading Safari, it makes sense for any company to want to let customers know about their new product and if Apple has a Software Updater installed by default, then thats the obvious place to do it - I really don't see what the big deal is. I know that people will say that not all users are as savvy to ensuring they download legit stuff to their computers and that Apple is exploiting that, but realistically I don't think thats Apple's issue or responsibility, any more than it is Microsoft, Google, Yahoo or whoever else is selling software... they're all in business to expose their brand through their software and this is just another way of pushing that brand to users - ultimately, people need to take responsibility for themselves and actually look at what their computer is telling them and if they don't want something installed, click the appropriate box. After all, if they blindly accept something like Safari, there's probably a lot worse that they'll not think twice about either.

I'm sure there's plenty of people disagree with this viewpoint, but what I would say is this - why does a checkbox being on by default matter so much when its from Apple, when any number of other companies already do the same?

 

[leddedup]

I'm sure there's plenty of people disagree with this viewpoint, but what I would say is this - why does a checkbox being on by default matter so much when its from Apple, when any number of other companies already do the same?

And because a bunch of other companies do it, that makes it okay? You don't think those other companies take heat from users?

Yes, users need to take responsibility for what they download, but at least be upfront and don't try to sneak that software by the unsuspecting shlub. That's the problem right there: because everyone is using these tactics, Windows machines are usually bogged down with unnecessary software. Apple should be setting an example, not jumping into the fray. Safari isn't going to die if they do the right thing and not force it on people. If it's truly the superior product, let it have it's day in the marketplace.

 

[BTW]

I have to agree with Asa. It's annoying and really just bad behaviour from Apple. If Microsoft was doing the same thing we'd be bashing them to oblivion.

Microsoft does do the same thing. IE 7.0 is checked and set as a critical download. They own 99% of the desktop market so they do whatever they want.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

I got this. I'm a Windows user and I have no interest in Safari (I currently use Firefox 3 Beta 5). It's a minor annoyance, nothing more.

 

[clevin]

Microsoft does do the same thing. IE 7.0 is checked and set as a critical download. They own 99% of the desktop market so they do whatever they want.

i seriously have problem with people using IE7 as an example,

1. from IE6 to IE7 is an update, while from nothing to safari is NOT, where does this "same" come from?

2. even if M$ behave crappy in other case, that doesn't make what apple did right.

 

[MartMcD]

And because a bunch of other companies do it, that makes it okay?

Of course not, but you miss the point - I've never encountered such an outcry from people about a software company trying to ply its wares via such methods, except in the case of Apple... everyone needs to get realistic here and realise that Apple is a business, its not the hippy commune it might have seemed back in the old days - its every bit as much the corporate haven that MS or any other software company is. People have an emotional attachment to Apple and I can understand that - I've used Macs for longer than I've used PC's and I still believe that Apple makes the better OS and that their technology is better, their innovation is light-years ahead and their "vision" is clearer. But none of that detracts from the fact that they are a business, its not just making software for the fun of it - its making software to further the brand, which will then sell more product because of the halo effect and will ultimately make more money... I have no problem with that, because its so blindingly obvious.

Bottom line - Apple is as much a corporate, sneaky monster as Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Dell or any of the other companies that so many among us would seek to villify... but in this case, I don't really see why Apple defaulting users to download their browser via their own software updater is such a bad thing when I'm consistently being punted with Yahoo/Google/A.N.Other software via installers that are completely unrelated. Where is the outcry there? Where are the accusations?

From a corporate perspective (and again, Apple is a business that markets itself effectively to become a lifestyle brand), it makes perfect sense for them to do so. It may not seem like a great tactic from a moral perspective, but if you look at it from a business perspective it makes perfect sense. Again, lets not think of Apple as some special entity - Apple is a business, out there to make money, not to make our lives better or to change the world. As such, it does things we may not agree with in order to further its products and brand - c'est la vie, really. If people want to take issue with it, fair enough, but I want to them see them take issue with the majority of the businesses out there - they're all after one thing in the end, Apple is no different... people shouldn't therefore treat it as some kind of social entity.

 

[cloudnine]

1. gizmodo covered this story two days ago. why is apple news at an all time low lately? blah

2. how is this seriously even an issue? only an ***** moron would have an issue with safari already being "checked" on the software update. what does it take, an entire HALF SECOND to uncheck it? give me a friggin' break already and cry me a river.

< /rant >

oh, and DON'T even come back at me with "oh, well someone could install it by accident because they see "update". if you're not paying attention to what updates you're installing, i can't really feel any pity for you.

 

[aLoC]

It's still checked by default? Then Apple are still acting evil. C'mon guys.

 

[cloudnine]

And because a bunch of other companies do it, that makes it okay? You don't think those other companies take heat from users?

Yes, users need to take responsibility for what they download, but at least be upfront and don't try to sneak that software by the unsuspecting shlub. That's the problem right there: because everyone is using these tactics, Windows machines are usually bogged down with unnecessary software. Apple should be setting an example, not jumping into the fray. Safari isn't going to die if they do the right thing and not force it on people. If it's truly the superior product, let it have it's day in the marketplace.

you're joking, right? that is the most asinine accusation i've ever heard. "don't try to sneak that software by the unsuspecting shlub." it says NEW SOFTWARE... AND IT LETS YOU CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO INSTALL IT.

dear lord, think before you speak.

 

[mikey.f]

That looks like a good idea to me... Better one, for sure.

 

[cloudnine]

Even if you assume your statement about Windows users is correct, it still doesn't mean that the option should be selected by default. You download a program called "Software Update." You don't expect it to automatically install some new application during a routine software update.

I will criticize ANY company that does this, including Apple.

it doesn't "automatically install some new application" during a software update. you choose whether or not to install it. that's the beauty of a check-box. take that half a second and uncheck it if you don't want safari installed.

 

[clevin]

oh, and DON'T even come back at me with "oh, well someone could install it by accident because they see "update". if you're not paying attention to what updates you're installing, i can't really feel any pity for you.

apple can't take it both ways

on one hand brag about "easy, just work"

on the other side tell users "you need to educate yourself enough to use apple products"

Its just so ridiculous, at least stop one of them, whichever apple wants to pick, just stop double standing first

As to the problem about if apple's act is "no biggie", you don't need to feel pity for anyone, windows users have their minds and they know what to think.

it doesn't "automatically install some new application" during a software update. you choose whether or not to install it. that's the beauty of a check-box. take that half a second and uncheck it if you don't want safari installed.

Which is easier? click once? or click numerous times? easy to talk, but again, I don't think you really care about windows users anyway, and they do have their own minds and can make judgment for themselves.

 

[MartMcD]

oh, and DON'T even come back at me with "oh, well someone could install it by accident because they see "update". if you're not paying attention to what updates you're installing, i can't really feel any pity for you.

Exactly - that was part of the point I was trying to make... again, think about it people - its like saying "Hey, we've got this great browser that's much better than IE or Firefox - why don't we download it for you so you can try it?", as opposed to the unchecked case which would probably translate to "Hey, we've got this great browser that's much better than IE or Firefox - we know you're happy enough just using what you've got, but maybe you'd like to try it?". Its like the situation of being given a free sample of something - rather than just knowing about a new product, if I'm actively given a sample of it, I'm more likely to look at it even if I'm happy with what I'm currently using - if I didn't get that sample, I might be aware of it but then not bother to investigate it simply because of familiarity with the product I already use (even if its inferior). Purely from a marketing perspective, what Apple (and various other companies) are doing makes sense...

It's still checked by default? Then Apple are still acting evil. C'mon guys.

Again, no more evil than the vast majority of companies out there. Consider the case of filling in a form for something then having a box in the small print that say something along the lines of "UNCHECK this box if you don't want us to pass your details onto other reputable companies we think you might be interested in" - they know most people won't look or pay attention, so while it may be viewed as "evil" it makes sense to do so.

Bottom line should be - pay attention to what you're actually doing and realise that business is about enhancing visibility of a brand and making money, not about morals or "the right thing".

 

[cloudnine]

apple can't take it both ways

on one hand brag about "easy, just work" on the other side tell users "you need to educate yourself enough to use apple products" Its just so ridiculous, at least stop one of them, whichever apple wants to pick, just stop double standing first As to the problem about if apple's act is "no biggie", you don't need to feel pity for anyone, windows users have their minds and they know what to think.

Which is easier? click once? or click numerous times? easy to talk, but again, I don't think you really care about windows users anyway, and they do have their own minds and can make judgment for themselves.

I can't say that I really understand what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say that Windows users having to uncheck a box to not install Safari on their system somehow makes Apple complicated and hard-to-use? Because if so, that's retarded. Like... completely, absolutely, overwhelmingly retarded.

And what is the clicking "numerous times" for? I'm not sure I comprehend what you're trying to say. But yeah, I see that Windows users can "make judgment for themselves", what with all the complaining they've been doing about unchecking a button.

Lame.

 

[clevin]

Again, no more evil than the vast majority of companies out there. Consider the case of filling in a form for something then having a box in the small print that say something along the lines of "UNCHECK this box if you don't want us to pass your details onto other reputable companies we think you might be interested in" - they know most people won't look or pay attention, so while it may be viewed as "evil" it makes sense to do so.

actually, in big name companies, most of them opt-out annoying options.

Apple is on the lower half of the good behavior list among big name companies.

But I do appreciate you understanding that apple is just as evil as other businesses.

I can't say that I really understand what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say that Windows users having to uncheck a box to not install Safari on their system somehow makes Apple complicated and hard-to-use? Because if so, that's retarded. Like... completely, absolutely, overwhelmingly retarded.

And what is the clicking "numerous times" for? I'm not sure I comprehend what you're trying to say. But yeah, I see that Windows users can "make judgment for themselves", what with all the complaining they've been doing about unchecking a button.

Lame.

you know whats lame? that you don't even understand windows user will be presented with pop up again and again and again for this retard thing even if they uncheck the box.

whats lame? blindly defending apple with absolutely no personal experiences. put yourself on the side of an evil company rather than on the side of the benefits of end-users.....

lame lame lame....

 

[gkarris]

Install Windows, get Internet Explorer...

Install iTunes, get Safari...

and the difference is...

 

[cloudnine]

actually, in big name companies, most of them opt-out annoying options.

Apple is on the lower half of the good behavior list among big name companies.

But I do appreciate you understanding that apple is just as evil as other businesses.

you know whats lame? that you don't even understand windows user will be presented with pop up again and again and again for this retard thing even if they uncheck the box.

whats lame? blindly defending apple with absolutely no personal experiences.

lame lame lame....

If you feel so adamant about it, uninstall iTunes. There, problem solved... no more lameness from Apple. They will stop destroying the foundations of your world now.

 

[clevin]

Install Windows, get Internet Explorer...

Install iTunes, get Safari...

and the difference is...

idk, IE can be a file manager?

If you feel so adamant about it, uninstall iTunes. There, problem solved... no more lameness from Apple. They will stop destroying the foundations of your world now.

ha, i don't give a *** about it, I avoid any apple stuff on my windows box, and guess what, whatever you want to defend, this type of behavior will only promote more windows users to just avoid any apple product all together...

lame. can't even tell whats good for the long term future of apple?

 

[MartMcD]

actually, in big name companies, most of them opt-out annoying options.

That's the point - Apple are making the Safari download an opt-out... you would have to choose not to download it and if you just blindly click "OK" on the software updater, you'll get it. If business was about morals, everything would be opt-in - you'd explicitly say you wanted something rather than explicity saying you don't want it.

My basic point is that this isn't exclusive to Apple, therefore there shouldn't be this outcry - it happens all over the place in any number of situations, in any number of industries. Its not about what is right or moral, its about making money in the end - Safari is an advert for Apple, one that they hope will ultimately lead to more sales of Macs, iPods, iPhones or anything else with that magical Apple logo on it... its a means to an end.

Welcome to Capitalism!

 

[clevin]

Safari is an advert for Apple, one that they hope will ultimately lead to more sales of Macs, iPods, iPhones or anything else with that magical Apple logo on it... its a means to an end.

Welcome to Capitalism!

Jesus is a communist.

Seriously, what I was saying is, This type of practice, eventually, Im afraid will only do the opposite of what apple wants it to.

 

[cloudnine]

ha, i don't give a *** about it, I avoid any apple stuff on my windows box, and guess what, whatever you want to defend, this type of behavior will only promote more windows users to just avoid any apple product all together...

lame. can't even tell whats good for the long term future of apple?

something tells me that the "situation" surrounding a checkbox in Apple's Software Update, or my "defending" Apple's situation to keep the box checked, will hardly constitute an upheaval in protesters boycotting Apple products.

I adore the fact that I apparently pushed some random button of yours by using the word "lame". Go take a melatonin and a couple Valium. No need to get so worked up, toots.