Apple Modifies Software Update for Windows

[jbernie]

I think everyone's missing the point. For the computer masters out there, you've probably had to design a website at some point in your life so it's important to have the most popular browsers anyway for testing. For the rest of the world: everyone's responses here are crazy. Apple is giving away free software. They would only be doing this if they thought that people would like it and possibly thing "hmm, if this product is easy and good, maybe a Mac would be too."

Far from it.... yes they are "giving it away" but let me decide to check the box to say I want to download it, not have Apple tell me that I should be downloading it by checking it for me.

For the MS bashing that happens here, Microsoft only has the critical updates selected by default, you can use the Windows Update tool and only ever see the critical updates that should be downloaded, there are optional updates available but they are not security related. In the optional updates are driver updates for network cards etc.

 

[dejo]

For the MS bashing that happens here, Microsoft only has the critical updates selected by default, you can use the Windows Update tool and only ever see the critical updates that should be downloaded...

Would you consider IE6 > IE7 a critical update?

 

[clevin]

Oh come on, that's akin to a turkey saying that people shouldn't be encouraged to vote for Chrismas.

oh come on, can you look pass the malicious guessing of other people's intention and make some comments on the substance?

always blaming everybody around, accusing them being bad intention in criticizing apple, while never check if apple actually did it wrong. Its not helping!

Its nice for game, its nice for debate, windows users don't give a *** what excuse you come up with.

and One more thing, Firefox has 13-36% market share, safari has 2-6%, and mostly on mac, it probably has 0.2% on windows. further more, this sneak of safari on pc probably result in pc users never use it, since they don't even know what it is!. do you really think they care that much of safari for windows? who doesn't even have a new tab button, and got half of the rating from users everywhere compare to firefox? get real.

 

[Syrus28]

Would you consider IE6 > IE7 a critical update?

I would. It brought more security, anti-phishing, decreased memory leaking, able to block ActiveX. And while not "critical", tabbed browsing brought them in line Firefox.

Anyways, why are you trying to justify Apple's actions by what Microsoft does? The fact is that Microsoft only shows "critical" updates in Windows/Microsoft Update by default, while Apple tries to install entire programs that they did not have before.

Don't act like Apple is doing anyone a favor, people. Safari should not be checked by default in Apple Software Update.

 

[AidenShaw]

Would you consider IE6 > IE7 a critical update?

Absolutely.

IE7 has many security enhancements - even some that Safari is sorely lacking.

 

[HLdan]

further more, this sneak of safari on pc probably result in pc users never use it, since they don't even know what it is!. do you really think they care that much of safari for windows? who doesn't even have a new tab button, and got half of the rating from users everywhere compare to firefox? get real.

My friend, you just explained exactly why Apple is pushing Safari upon the Windows users as they do. If Windows users don't give a rats a$$ about Safari then they wouldn't EVER go Apple's website and proactively download it.
I don't know why the Windows users are on this forum at all, (they say the Mac users don't know they feel) most of them hate Apple, Macs and they tolerate iTunes because of the iPod. If any of the Windows users expect the majority of MAC Rumors to agree with their rant there's no point in posting here.

 

[Syrus28]

My friend, you just explained exactly why Apple is pushing Safari upon the Windows users as they do. If Windows users don't give a rats a$$ about Safari then they wouldn't EVER go Apple's website and proactively download it.

Uhh, they don't care about Safari because it offers nothing of use. There is no advantage over IE7, its inconsistent design in Windows, and no visible tab button. Why should they care? Maybe if Safari offered something worthwhile (like firefox) people would come to them, but Apple is foolish to think they can just throw it in their face and people will use it.

I don't know why the Windows users are on this forum at all, (they say the Mac users don't know they feel) most of them hate Apple, Macs and they tolerate iTunes because of the iPod. If any of the Windows users expect the majority of MAC Rumors to agree with their rant there's no point in posting here.

You know, its possible to use both Windows and Mac OS X. Frankly put, people can use Mac OS X and/or Windows and not inherit a hate for the other company. However, I'd be willing to bet the MAJORITY of Windows users like Apple, which im afraid is not something I can say about Mac users and Microsoft. Believe it or not, just because someone posts on Mac Rumors does NOT mean they can't have respect for both Microsoft and Apple at the same time, and see when each company is at fault [like this time].

I still don't get why people are trying to point a finger at Microsoft and say "They did it too!" to somehow justify what Apple has did at one time or another. Truthfully, this whole thing is not that big of a deal. However, it does well to show how people who have some unnatural loyalty to Apple react to defend them.

 

[BongoBanger]

My friend, you just explained exactly why Apple is pushing Safari upon the Windows users as they do. If Windows users don't give a rats a$$ about Safari then they wouldn't EVER go Apple's website and proactively download it.

We proactively go to Mozilla's and download FireFox.

My what was that sound? It was the noise of your argument imploding.

I don't know why the Windows users are on this forum at all, (they say the Mac users don't know they feel) most of them hate Apple, Macs and they tolerate iTunes because of the iPod.

Hi, Parallels and Boot Camp would like a word with you.

If any of the Windows users expect the majority of MAC Rumors to agree with their rant there's no point in posting here.

You've not been keeping up with this topic, have you? Don't confuse 'Apple user' and 'fanboy'.

 

[goosnarrggh]

You've not been keeping up with this topic, have you? Don't confuse 'Apple user' and 'fanboy'.

Didn't you hear? It's physically impossible for anybody to conclude, on the basis of competitive analysis, that any particular subset of Apple's product lines are superior, without also blindly accepting that Apple's entire product line is superiour, and there is no possible room for imporvement. (Until and unless said improvement comes out of - or via some creative revisionist history is attributed to - Apple itself.)

 

[ActionJax]

No need to argue

Simply stated, Apple's little trick to get people to install Safari makes me think less of Apple.

 

[clevin]

My friend, you just explained exactly why Apple is pushing Safari upon the Windows users as they do. If Windows users don't give a rats a$$ about Safari then they wouldn't EVER go Apple's website and proactively download it.
I don't know why the Windows users are on this forum at all, (they say the Mac users don't know they feel) most of them hate Apple, Macs and they tolerate iTunes because of the iPod. If any of the Windows users expect the majority of MAC Rumors to agree with their rant there's no point in posting here.

Mac rumors, not MAC rumors

no, i was simply saying, force pushing do not work! Why do windows users hate RealPlayer, AOL? Why on the internet people download "real alternative" and "quicktime alternative"? If not for the necessity, they will avoid it as much as they can, and last time I checked, safari isn't a necessity.

I think there is a serious problem with apple's windows product, they are all seems to be designed and pushed as a punch in windows users' face. They consume more memory and CPU, break windows UI, and bury hidden preferences that normal users can't easily access. Some mac ppl even said something like these crappwares are apple's mercy for windows users. Please, when you looking down at your users, it won't be good.

As other people mentioned above as well, firefox had exactly same problem when started, and it had no big corporation backing at that time, AND it gradually changed the situation by playing high road and offering better features. Now take a look at browser world, safari and opera can now enjoy the easier road with less IE-only websites floating around, and even IE8 will be defaulting "standard mode". That, my friend, is what firefox has accomplished, not only for itself, but also for a better leveled play ground for others, and for the benefit of users.

 

[hagjohn]

Sad that you can't understand the difference.

Install Windows, get Internet Explorer...

Install iTunes, get Safari...

and the difference is...

 

[hagjohn]

Would you consider IE6 > IE7 a critical update?

Considering how bad security was with IE6, yes, I would consider that a critical update.

 

[flipxfx]

Scerd

They want it unchecked. Because their afraid that apple might have actually made a decent web browser. it might not have as many add-ons, but it's surley faster. and it makes me want my apple computer right now ins't of in June

 

[emulator]

They want it unchecked. Because their afraid that apple might have actually made a decent web browser. it might not have as many add-ons, but it's surley faster. and it makes me want my apple computer right now ins't of in June

Guess you have not tried Safari on windows. It's the slowest of the 4 main browsers.

 

[clevin]

They want it unchecked. Because their afraid that apple might have actually made a decent web browser. it might not have as many add-ons, but it's surley faster. and it makes me want my apple computer right now ins't of in June

you mean the safari who has 0.2% market share on windows? oh,oh, oh, how in the hell would firefox, who has 13-36% market on windows, be scared of it?

"might not have as many addons?" please, there is near ZERO addons for safari on windows, and there are 2000 for firefox. "Might not"?

"surely faster" of what? when the whole app is slow, rendering speed isn't as important as you make it to be, not to mention firefox 3 is faster in every significant benchmark than safari 3.1 on windows....

making imaginary speculation isn't helpful, apple need to check reality first before deciding how they want to proceed. and IMHO, first step is to make safari native on windows, and promoting it through proper channel.

 

[dejo]

I would. It brought more security, anti-phishing, decreased memory leaking, able to block ActiveX. And while not "critical", tabbed browsing brought them in line Firefox.

Absolutely.

IE7 has many security enhancements - even some that Safari is sorely lacking.

Considering how bad security was with IE6, yes, I would consider that a critical update.

You see, for me and the rest of my development team, IE7 was a lot more than just an update. It was pretty much new software that, because our clients' demand we continue to support IE6 with our web apps, had the potential to cause us to no longer be able to test our work, since it replaced IE6 rather than running alongside it. But we pay attention to what is offered in Windows Update and ignored that particular "update". And if we happen to be using Apple Software Update, we take the responsibility to pay attention to what it is suggesting it will update as well. We're not always happy with the default offerings in either case, but we learn how to ignore them and get on with our work. It's not worth getting our panties in a knot.

 

[jbernie]

Would you consider IE6 > IE7 a critical update?

Given how bad the tabbed browsing was done with the MSN Toolbar ...shudder... and all the other fixes that came with it, yes. Though at work I am still using IE6sp2 as we aren't allowed to upgrade and we do not officially support any other browser.

Would you regard any incrimental update of Safari on a Mac a critical update?

Certainly I do not require Safari on my Windows machines as a critical update for anything I do right now, last I checked Windows runs just fine without it.

 

[dejo]

Given how bad the tabbed browsing was done with the MSN Toolbar ...shudder... and all the other fixes that came with it, yes. Though at work I am still using IE6sp2 as we aren't allowed to upgrade and we do not officially support any other browser.

Would you regard any incrimental update of Safari on a Mac a critical update?

Certainly I do not require Safari on my Windows machines as a critical update for anything I do right now, last I checked Windows runs just fine without it.

Safari 2.x to Safari 2.x+1: sure, probably a critical update. Safari 2.x to Safari 3: more than just a critical update. Be wary. Need to investigate the implications more carefully.

My point was that, in light of your statement that "Microsoft only has the critical updates selected by default", my development team (and from the sounds of it, your work as well) consider IE6 > IE7 more than just an critical update. It is a whole new version of the software whose installation implications need to be investigated even more than the average update.

 

[jbernie]

My point was that, in light of your statement that "Microsoft only has the critical updates selected by default", my development team (and from the sounds of it, your work as well) consider IE6 > IE7 more than just an critical update. It is a whole new version of the software whose installation implications need to be investigated even more than the average update.

Correct, which is why Microsoft allows organizations to turn off auto updates for things such as OS Service Packs and the upgrade to IE 7.0 so it can be tested before being deployed to the enterprise.

 

[Diggity-Dan]

"Even still, Mozilla's Asa Dotzler believes Apple should not leave the software checked off by default."

You mean

"Even still, Mozilla's Asa Dotzler believes Apple should leave the software checked off by default."

Better yet,

"Even still, Mozilla's Asa Dotzler believes Apple should leave the install box unchecked by default."

 

[Denarius]

Even still, Mozilla's Asa Dotzler believes Apple should not leave the software checked by default.

oh come on, can you look pass the malicious guessing of other people's intention and make some comments on the substance?

But that statement has no substance other than criticizing another companies marketing. Firefox is an excellent browser, but it doesn't change the fact that a statement like that is a waste of screen area since it so blatantly has an agenda behind it.

 

[kaiwai]

Saying that that UK spellings are more used globally than US spellings is tricky.. If you only include native English speakers, the US has more than the UK, Australia, NZ, Ireland, etc combined. However, when you include people who use English as a second language, they almost always learn UK English, so there are a bunch more of them.

However, why not just get the en-GB version of Firefox?

Why do the nightlies only include the US dictionary?

Back ontop, the issue is this, I'm not going to use a browser after that same organisation screwed Mac OS X users over for many years - because this organisation was too lazy to put some development dollars into the project. I have been whining about the lack of form aqua widgets since 1.0, and it took them until now to finally do something? sorry, you've lost a customer. This is a symptom of a bigger thing at Mozilla and their arrogant 'screw you' attitude they have towards customers.

 

[uaaerospace]

You see, for me and the rest of my development team, IE7 was a lot more than just an update. It was pretty much new software that, because our clients' demand we continue to support IE6 with our web apps, had the potential to cause us to no longer be able to test our work, since it replaced IE6 rather than running alongside it. But we pay attention to what is offered in Windows Update and ignored that particular "update". And if we happen to be using Apple Software Update, we take the responsibility to pay attention to what it is suggesting it will update as well. We're not always happy with the default offerings in either case, but we learn how to ignore them and get on with our work. It's not worth getting our panties in a knot.

I don't understand the discussion regarding IE6 to IE7. That was an upgrade since IE6 was already installed. It's comparable to upgrading from Safari 2.x to 3.x, but this is NOT the same thing as installing Safari from scratch. Please make the distinction.

 

[Iscariot]

Thank you so much gentlemen.. I love these posts, You guys honestly sound like the Third Reich! All these comments about how life will be better if we force our ways onto people.. I love it All of us professionals have such a good laugh at these posts..

Oh, and check out how many people are using Shake on a Mac... That really worked out well didnt it

Honestly, people wouldnt care so much, but Apple are consistently saying they are different and better than Microsoft.. I actually think they are worse, they lock down far more things.

(goes off to enjoy Netflix instant viewing...)