Apple Modifies Software Update for Windows

[SodiumBenzoate]

Which should be included by default; why include the US dictionary by default but not the UK? the UK is the most well used one globally, so why not?

Saying that that UK spellings are more used globally than US spellings is tricky.. If you only include native English speakers, the US has more than the UK, Australia, NZ, Ireland, etc combined. However, when you include people who use English as a second language, they almost always learn UK English, so there are a bunch more of them.

However, why not just get the en-GB version of Firefox?

 

[Xtremehkr]

I can't believe CNet thought that this was news worth reporting, Microsoft can afford to do a big marketing push whenever they release a new piece of software, and when there is a new version of IE, you hear about it everywhere.

If it annoyed you that much to hear about it the first time, you can adjust the settings and not hear about other new software again.

Personally, I like to hear about when new software is available, whether it is Safari or FF. If FF developed a whole new version and somehow I didn't hear about it, I wouldn't mind if they let me know when I used the old version.

This seems to be a much bigger deal than it ought to be.

 

[HLdan]

It's obvious that people are very divided on this issue. It will have no impact on those this policy does not bother, yet those that it rubs the wrong way will be discouraged from using Apple products in the future. .

BS, Microsoft has screwed ALL OF US at one point or another regarding endless security holes, promises never fulfilled, overpriced licensing on Office and Windows, dominating the web with their browser and .NET crap and people still buy into Microsoft and drink the koolaid.
Microsoft ain't losing many customers and Apple ain't either.

 

[clevin]

This seems to be a much bigger deal than it ought to be.

i honestly think some mac users don't fully appreciate the distaste of windows towards this type of behavior.

It really doesn't matter how you defend apple, the whole windows user base is out there and they have their own mind.

 

[uaaerospace]

BS, Microsoft has screwed ALL OF US at one point or another regarding endless security holes, promises never fulfilled, overpriced licensing on Office and Windows, dominating the web with their browser and .NET crap and people still buy into Microsoft and drink the koolaid.
Microsoft ain't losing many customers and Apple ain't either.

Apple just lost an install base of 12.

None of your mentioned examples has anything to do with installing unwanted software, but I do understand what you are driving at. I must say, though, that if Apple widely adopts your argument of doing whatever they want as long as it isn't taken as far as MS, they will find themselves in trouble quickly.

 

[AidenShaw]

Uninstall "Apple Software Update"

If you feel so adamant about it, uninstall iTunes. There, problem solved... no more lameness from Apple. They will stop destroying the foundations of your world now.

The continual prompts can also be killed by going to Add/remove Programs and un-installing the application "Apple Software Update".

Not only kills the prompts, but gets rid of a piece of background bloatware.

 

[Vindu]

Apple has been really unwise about this whole thing. Part of their brand image is "we're user-friendly and our software is not annoying". In business terms, getting this message across has real financial implications: Windows-users who buy the message it are more likely to switch and buy an actual Mac. What Apple have done is to damage this part of their brand image in a very visible way, simultaneously across all Windows users who run iTunes. For what gain? I imagine they calculated that they would get enough new Safari users to offset this damage. Frankly I don't believe they made the right calculation.

On another note... if I installed a piece of software and as a consequence I find myself getting a little pop-up window which appears once a day and forces me to deselect a box and click to make it vanish, every time, then I would be a little bit annoyed. What if every piece of software I installed did this? I don't want to be spending my whole day unchecking boxes and clicking on unsolicited pop-up windows; just as I don't want to spend half of my evening picking up the phone to telemarketers. It's intrusive, it's a waste of my time, it's bad manners.

I sort of have a feeling that Apple's Safari team are getting little bit out of control. I liked the browser when it first appeared, because it was light and non-nonsense, and clean to use. I still use it nowadays, but all of these extra features (HTML 5 etc) are bogging things down. I wish I could switch them off when I wanted to. Safari seems to have more than its fair share of instability and security issues. It is in danger of becoming "bloatware". And then this latest update brouhaha -- hurting Apple's brand image and core values for the sake of promoting Safari a little bit more. I think someone needs to turn the Jeep around and bring it back to base camp.

 

[Xtremehkr]

i honestly think some mac users don't fully appreciate the distaste of windows towards this type of behavior.

It really doesn't matter how you defend apple, the whole windows user base is out there and they have their own mind.

According the article, which speaks of general outrage while only mentioning a couple of people (including, not surprisingly, the CEO of Mozilla). Windows users do have their own minds, and in general, I haven't heard very many complaints, just about every piece of software I use that updates regularly, lets me know about it. I think CNet is exaggerating the issue.

And besides that, Apple edited the update software, so it seems to have covered its bases.

 

[clevin]

According the article, which speaks of general outrage while only mentioning a couple of people (including, not surprisingly, the CEO of Mozilla). Windows users do have their own minds, and in general, I haven't heard very many complaints, just about every piece of software I use that updates regularly, lets me know about it. I think CNet is exaggerating the issue.
.

you don't have to hear anything, you are an individual, who uses mac mostly, like me, what you hear doesn't cover whatever you need to be aware.

goto betanews.com and check comment for safari for windows, check comments for iTunes for windows, check comments for quicktime for windows. there is no self-IDed elites liek /. or arstechnica. there are mostly general users.

and believe or not, those commentators have zero thing to do with Mozilla.

words coming from mozilla doesn't make it untrue, to suspect mozilla's criticism purely based on competition and ignore the sincere substance inside it, is.. typical dirty business attacking playbook. Apple improves nothing in past 15 years. still filled with big corporation culture of deceiving the masses.

when you think cnet is wrong, betanews is wrong, pcworld is wrong, everybody around you is wrong... maybe its really you are wrong.

you don't have to agree with Asa, you can use worst guess towards Asa's comment, he obviously has his own interests, Im simply saying, when you looking pass defensive excuses for apple, the real interests of apple itself is not being helped, rather, its being damaged.

Finally to all:

frankly, i think I and others who are criticizing, are really the one who helps apples.. I can't imagine apple improves itself with crowd blindly praising everything, its just insanely difficult to keep level head with millions of fanboys always agreeing with anything.

You guys can sitting in a apple green zone defending apple all you want, I just list my real world, modern windows knowledge, like it or not, there are billions of ppl out there using windows, any weight you put on the mistake apple made towards windows users, time it by 20.

A simple example, you would think an OS bundling a build-in media player is "fine", guess what? M$ has to pay $600,000,000 for it.

 

[gkarris]

Dear Apple:

Please feel free to force whatever program you want on my Windows machines.

OS X and iLife would be nice.

Thanks.

P.S. Don't listen to anyone else....

 

[carfac]

I think part of the problem with this is that for many years (not recently, that is for sure!), Apple has tried to position itself as "user-friendly". To me, this means not only easy to use, but that they also RESPECT their users. But slipping in an install of a new (and unasked for) software, they do not show any respect for the user, or their own software.

If they respected their software, they would say, "Hey, we have this cool browser- it's better, and makes for a better user experience. Try it, click here!" But by slipping it in, it has the appearance of being like a trojan. It certainly isn't, but when something installs itself on my system w/o asking, that is a trojan, I do not care about the "goodwill" of who put it there.

Should it be there under "suggested installs"? Sure- no problem. But PLEASE do not assume for me I want it. To those who say it is just a simple uncheck to disable- WRONG approach (if you are "user-friendly).

Apple is actually WORSE than MS with this. Sure, MS gives me the choice to add silverthingy or whatever it is called, but I also have to option to "not ask about this again." It NEVER bothers me again. Where is that from Apple? User Friendly? NOT. As bad as MS may be, and as much as they do leave a bad taste in my mouth, at least their upgrader does just that- upgrades. Sure, it gives me a choice of some new things, but it leaves the choice to me whether to do them or not. Apple just assumes I want it and puts it in there- wrong answer.

I would feel differently if the program from Apple was called "Apple Install Central" or something like that . But this is an upgrader... not a source for new installs. Sneaking- and this is sneaking!- in an install into an upgrader is very underhanded. Besides, I do not see the how Safari is or can possibly be considered an upgrade to iTunes. Totally unrelated. It should be treated as such.

For all you fanbois who spout that Apple knows better than me what I should use- and I say this with all the venom I can muster- **** you. Safari sucks. I have used it. When I got my iMac, I played with it a bit. It was not long until I installed Firefox. But more than this being an inferior product, I do not want anyone- Apple, or MS, or Mozilla- deciding what is right for me. I can handle that myself, thank you very much.

Why is this worth bitching about? Maybe because this is an Apple forum! Maybe because we expect more from Apple. I find it repulsive when a program tries to force a Google or Yahoo toolbar down my throat. But, you know, I expect that sort of BS from Adobe. Adobe is NOT a user-friendly company. But we expect more from Apple- we SHOULD expect more from Apple. In this, Apple has lowered themselves even below MS, Adobe and Google. They loose respect.

Apple has just gone down hill over the last 1-2 years. This instance (forcing a d/l of Safari), by itself, is really not that bad a problem. But worth bitching about. But this and all the other things Apple is doing (locking the iPhone, etc.) are signs of what Apple is becoming, of a new direction toward corporate BS and away from the users, really making me wish for MS. It demonstrates they are moving away from caring for their customers and their interests. Apple is no longer about choice, it is about doing it Apple's way, and ONLY doing it Apples way, screw what the user wants or needs. How is this any different from what MS was 10 years ago? Apple is becoming a Nanny- you CAN do this, you CAN'T do that, WE know better than you. Again, I think not. If Apple wants to retain the feeling of being user friendly, they REALLY need to change their direction- they are rapidly becoming everything they used to be a symbol against. And THAT is why this is an important signpost- it shows again where Apple is headed.

Here is a test for you fanbois. Lets say you have MS Word on your iMac or MBP. MS has an upgrader for Office for OSX. Let's say that your next Word upgrade threw a new IE for Mac on there- would you still be so forgiving???? Maybe you can tell me when MS ever did something like this. No worries, I can wait.

 

[inkswamp]

Gee, 7 stories on the front page of MacRumors and only one is an actual rumor (and it's an iPhone rumor to boot.) So that means ZERO Mac rumors on the front page of MacRumors.com.

And seriously, can we move this story along now? I don't give a rat's ass how Apple's software does or does not work on Windows. Quite honestly, if any software works on Windows, then it's a minor miracle. Why I need to see the same headline for several days in a row about Apple's software fixing a minor quibble on Windows is beyond me.

 

[MacFly123]

Be honest, do you think that if Apple unchecked Safari by default or even better don't even put Safari in Windows software update that Windows users would actually proactively decide to try out Safari? No. This entire discussion has proven that, the majority of the Windows lovers on this forum have been verbal that they hate Apple and their software (why they post on this forum beats me) so they are not going to elect to download Safari.

That's really ridiculous if Paypal were to block Safari due to one security exploit against the thousands of holes in Internet Explorer.
I have to wonder if some of you on this forum hate Apple so much you just want them to fail.

LOL well if you knew me you would know I am a ridiculously HUGE Apple fan. The fact is they need to fix the phishing issues with Safari PERIOD. I LOVE Safari, it is my browser of choice.

As for the Windows people in here, they are nerds. They do not represent the typical Windows user who doesn't really even know anything but how to type a paper and surf the web.

 

[cbrain]

This should stop some of the complaints.

 

[Syrus28]

If Apple really wanted to fix the issue, they would leave Safari on apple.com and let people come to them. It's worked for Mozilla, so why not Apple? Because Safari offers no serious advantage over IE7. Mozilla gained a lot of popularity with its tabs and ad-ons, something neither IE7 or Safari do. However, IE7 and Safari are on equal terms on everything else, unless you truly value that extra .5 second Safari renders faster than IE7. Most people don't, which is why it won't catch on.

Personally, I think Apple is doing this so they can quote the "huge demand" for Safari on Windows in their next keynote, when in fact, a large portion of them did not intentionally install it. If that happened, they loose credibility in my book.

 

[Denarius]

But slipping in an install of a new (and unasked for) software, they do not show any respect for the user, or their own software.

If they respected their software, they would say, "Hey, we have this cool browser- it's better, and makes for a better user experience. Try it, click here!" But by slipping it in, it has the appearance of being like a trojan. It certainly isn't, but when something installs itself on my system w/o asking, that is a trojan, I do not care about the "goodwill" of who put it there.

Well, as you've pointed out yourself, you don't have to install anything, just uncheck it. But apart from that the software that you're installing is free, which makes a certain amount of marketing on the back of it perfectly reasonable. It also appears that the marketing tactics used by Apple the last couple of years are proving very effective.

But on the subject of not giving users choice, where exactly do I find the check box to uninstall IE on my copy of XP? Oh, there isn't one. Ah, that's all that anti-trust malarkey was about wasn't it?

Pots and kettles methinks.

 

[carfac]

Well, as you've pointed out yourself, you don't have to install anything, just uncheck it.

Right- You CAN uncheck it. I say it is SLIMY to make you uncheck it. It is classy (or "elegant" to use Fanboi parlance) to have you check it and affirm the upgrade. It is presumptuous to make a user uncheck it. I am simply pointing out that Apple is slipping into a slimy area. Let me put it this way. You go into a Mall, and are at a perfume counter. A polite, classy, elegant way for the perfume sampler to demo the scent is to tell you about the perfume, and what scents it is made from, and then to ask you if you would like to try it. Apple is spraying full on in your face and hoping you like the smell. See the difference?

But apart from that the software that you're installing is free, which makes a certain amount of marketing on the back of it perfectly reasonable.

Seems to me just about every virus and trojan out there is free- so, by your justification, they are fine to load into someones computer, too? Free doesn't make a bit of difference- whether I want it or not is what matters. Trying to slip it in is slimy. I admit Apple is a BIT better by separating it out (and, by thus, admitting some degree of it being slimy), but it is not yet to the point I find acceptable from a reputable company.

It also appears that the marketing tactics used by Apple the last couple of years are proving very effective.

Sure- sell your soul for market share. OK if your name is Faust, but when you make your rep as being a company that plays to the users, and abuse those users trust, you got a problem. I think that is called selling your soul.

But on the subject of not giving users choice, where exactly do I find the check box to uninstall IE on my copy of XP? Oh, there isn't one. Ah, that's all that anti-trust malarkey was about wasn't it?

I grant you that. And I never said MS was not without warts. So this is a justification for Apple to lower itself? If so, I am NOT buying any more Apple. Better the devil I know, than the devil hiding inside the false front. At least MS never pretends to be a "user-friendly" company... Personally, I find it that much more repugnant that someone would build and play on their reputation and then ditch it for a bit of market share. Ladies and Gentlemen, the new Apple.

I never meant to defend MS- by all accounts, they suck. I will not argue that. But to use that as a defense for Apple pulling the same- no worse- tactics is a lame and compelling argument. If it is bad for MS to "force" IE on you, it is just as bad for Apple to Sneak Safari in.

So, Fanboi, you never answered my question, did you? What if IE was snuck in by a MS update? If, according to you, it was free, I guess that would be OK???

 

[jcoffman78]

People need to step up and take responsibility for their own stupidity and pay attention to what they are installing...if you don't wanna install Safari, uncheck the box. I have never heard so many people bitch about having to uncheck a box...lazy bastards.

 

[BongoBanger]

But on the subject of not giving users choice, where exactly do I find the check box to uninstall IE on my copy of XP? Oh, there isn't one. Ah, that's all that anti-trust malarkey was about wasn't it?

Pots and kettles methinks.

It's not really the same - the example you use is that of a bundled app that you get when doing a fresh OS install not a somewhat dubious attempt to install a browser where one already exists.

 

[BongoBanger]

People need to step up and take responsibility for their own stupidity and pay attention to what they are installing...if you don't wanna install Safari, uncheck the box. I have never heard so many people bitch about having to uncheck a box...lazy bastards.

Congratulations on missing the point.

 

[jcoffman78]

by the way holding a gun to someones head and telling them to do something is "forcing" them to do something...Unless Stevie is holding a gun to yor head you don't have to install a damn thing...uncheck the box...lazy bastards

 

[jcoffman78]

Congratulations on missing the point.

thanks...I don't think i missed the point...but if i did what did i miss?

 

[chickenninja]

i like the solution they have of giving windows users a new software box, but they gotta understand that people will notice the default checkmark, and it will make them skeptical whether apple really is all that different than PC manufacturers who blanket your hard drive with trial software. could you imagine if Ie installed itself on your machine and when you go to do something web based Ie opens up because its now the "default browser" setting. whoever doesnt notice they have installed safari will get an interesting surprise that could potentially thrust-rate them. because as we all know whenever any browser is installed it always sets itself as the default browser. apple should leave both the itunes and safari checkboxes unchecked, so that people who just click next,,,next,,,next will have to consciously choose what they install & to try out safari which gives the user a much stronger sense of being an apple converter, no-one wants to feel they are a mac user because it stuck its foot in their door, they want to feel as though they choose it. if safari users arent choosing to install it, the alternative is in the same malicious category of everything people hate about PCs.

 

[SkierDoc]

People need to step up and take responsibility for their own stupidity and pay attention to what they are installing...if you don't wanna install Safari, uncheck the box. I have never heard so many people bitch about having to uncheck a box...lazy bastards.

Missing the point entirely.

Most people may not know how to change the oil on their car. Does that make them lazy and stupid?

Most people may not be as tech savvy as we on this forum are. Most people may just think that in order to keep their computer working properly, they just hit "ok". That doesn't make them lazy or stupid - it's just not of interest to them to know all the inner workings of software on their computer.

With Apple Updater popping up on my screen EVERY WEEK telling me that I need to "update" Safari (which isn't even installed) is pure deception in my book. Most won't know how to turn this Updater off, or disable. Most probably give in and hit the OK button to install it either because the 1) think they should, and 2) don't know any better.

Apple has made an improvement showing that it is now New Software - but still they create extra steps for the end user to have to unclick it. I didn't ask for Apple Updater to be installed on my computer when I installed Itunes. I would prefer it not being there actually. I didn't ask for Quicktime to be installed in my QuickLaunch bar, yet it reappears there with any Quicktime update. I didn't ask for those Apple background programs, yet they appear each time apple software is updated. Sure - I can diable them or uninstall them - but is this truly a viable option for the uneducated average PC user?

Apple, along with many other software companies, are pushing their wares onto the user by these practices. Sure, it only takes 1/2 second to unclick that install box for safari - every week - but the fact that you need to is the whole point everyone is making.

 

[plumpan]

1) general public is uninformed
2) they are unwilling to change what "works" for them (IE)
3) people are far less likely to return something once you place it in their hands, rather than asking them if they are interested.

yes this was definitely a calculated risk on apple's part, but a very smart one as it will raise awareness. as long as safari continues to develop into a great browser, i see no problem with this. as someone else mentioned, many of those who become aware of the world beyond IE, may eventually settle with firefox at the moment.