Apple Mulling Preview of New Modular Mac Pro at WWDC in June

[Apple Master]

Remember when they stacked the Mac minis last year? Why not have a modular system like that where you can buy different modules, depending on what you need/expand.

That’s basically what the rumors suggest and makes a lot of sense.

 

[DYER]

What does "overpriced" mean if not "overpriced compared to the available alternatives?"

I'm not saying "I can get a much better specced PC than a Mac," although that's true. What I am saying is two things: Ideally, I'd like to be able to upgrade RAM, GPU, and storage on a reasonably priced desktop Mac myself. Barring that, if I have to pay Apple to do that at the time of purchase, at least make those prices reasonable. Two to three times retail costs is not reasonable.

I understand some of the tradeoffs Apple made with the iPhone and even the MacBook. Making the storage expandable via a microSD slot would compromise compactness, room for battery, and waterproofness. These were reasonable tradeoffs (I'm also not so naïve to realize this is also to encourage you to purchase an iPhone with more storage). To a lesser degree, these apply to MacBooks.

But these tradeoffs are not important whatsoever in a desktop computer that is going to sit in one spot. And if you have to tether things to the Mac mini to work around Apple's design decisions, then theirs no purpose to the Mac mini's size.

In fact, I see little justification for the Mac mini as a whole If it were cheap, I could call it a good entry level computer. If it were vastly powerful, I could justify its price. If it were easily expandable, I could justify its anemic base configuration. But it's none of these things.

You acknowledge yourself that the Mac mini isn't really the machine you wanted, but Apple doesn't, and likely won't, sell what you want. That's my point: Apple's desktop offerings are a mess right now, and I don't expect the Mac Pro will be any better.

Fair enough, I can't really argue with most of that.

I wouldn't say the Mini was under-powered in i7 guise though... I'd have happily taken a device twice or three times the size, but I agree with someone else's opinion that they haven't changed the form factor to still appeal to any data centres still using the Mini (I'm guessing it's a fairly sizeable market for the device that you wouldn't want to cut off). And I would rather have an eGPU over internal, but only because it'll be easily upgradeable (so that point would have been moot if the box were larger and I could have put one in or upgraded it myself).

And to reply to another point you made in another post re 128GB being laughable (it is) I suspect they didn't whack a standard HDD in it as the performance wouldn't have matched the other devices - thus delivered a crappier user experience.

 

[busyscott]

Not promised in 2019. The exact qoute from the Mac Roundtable talk from Phil Schiller was;

«Now you won’t see any of those products this year; we’re in the process of that. We think it’s really important to create something great for our pro customers who want a Mac Pro modular system, and that’ll take longer than this year to do.»

Bingo. My opinion is that they realize the general public believes they promised 2019, even though it's likely a 2020 product, so this is their chance to put some water on those flames and correct the story. October will be new iMac Pro's to kick the can down the road further and buy them more time.

 

[fithian]

Back in 2014, I needed a new Mac Mini to run my a/v tv system. The offering from Apple was sub par, so I decided to go with a stripped Mac Pro. It has worked well for its purpose, probably $500 more than the best Mini at the time. The new Mac Mini is much better than my stripped Mac Pro, but I don't need that much power. I also have a Mac Pro 6-core that I bought in 2013, which is better than the stripped Mac Pro. I am not sure what I need, probably nothing. A new Mac Pro would be nice, but probably very expensive, and may not give me any more than a new Mini. Waiting to see.

 

[Greymacuser]

Promises promises blah blah blah.
[doublepost=1550685148][/doublepost]

Remember when they stacked the Mac minis last year? Why not have a modular system like that where you can buy different modules, depending on what you need/expand.

Been suggested by one before.

 

[theluggage]

$799 for the base Mac mini, with 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD is overpriced

...and only an i3 processor in the entry level as well...

At this point, why do I care that the mini is mini?

That's the kicker... smaller always costs more and its reasonable to pay a premium for such a tiny machine - but not if you immediately have to start adding external boxes because internal storage costs a fortune and the iGPU is feeble. There are really nice small-form-factor PC boxes that can take a second hard drive and a half-decent PCIe graphics card, leaving you with a far neater solution.

Now, with a laptop, the idea of an eGPU for faster graphics when 'docked' may have some merit, but for a desktop machine it is just plain bonkers - yes, please, add the $200-300 cost of an external PCIe enclosure to the price of a half-decent GPU, hook it up via a 4-lane TB connection instead of the 16 lanes normally used then add a whole list of ifs, buts and caveats to which applications can actually use it. Oh, and if you want a 5k Thunderbolt display then you're stuck with the really expensive and non-upgradeable Apple/Blackmagic eGPUs.

What makes me nervous is all this talk about modular. What's the difference between having to buy a proprietary RAM DIMM that is specifically tailored for Apple for twice as much as a similar RAM upgrade for PC, or having to purchase a proprietary RAM Expansion Module for MacPro that is also twice as much as a similar RAM upgrade for PC?

If you read the original 2017 Apple discussion they described Apple's existing line-up as including laptops, all-in-one and modular - i.e. the Mini and trashcan are already "modular". It could just mean "separate display".

Apple already charge 2x the going rate for standard DIMMS and (based on the iMac Pro and Mini) seem happy with the idea that "upgradeable RAM" mean "upgradeable by your Apple-approved service centre" - the cost-is-not-an-issue "pro" target market that they seem to be going for will probably order however much RAM they need from Apple (and care about extended warranties) and are unlikely to attack their brand new Mac with pizza-cutter and spudger to install 3rd party RAM.

Of course, they could surprise us and come up with something unexpectedly good...

 

[Porco]

If they’e going to take until 2020 they could have not only designed tihs new modular Mac Pro, they could have just put out the cheesegrater with updated specs that most of us wanted in 2013 as well...

I hope they’re making something fantastic that will have a low enough starting price.

I fear they are twiddling their thumbs making yet another design that is too clever for its own good and could even mark the end of the Mac Pro if it flops.

As more time goes on hearing nothing it gets harder to remain optimistic. So I guess I do hope they at least show us something soon.

 

[doctor-don]

Gotta admit, I find the touch bar on a tower pretty odd; it seems like something I’d come up with for a GIF. Might as well pop a notch on that bad boy too.

Ah, why the hell not?

Where did this come from - touch bar on a tower? For what purpose? Is it so your cat/dog/partner can turn off the computer when you are working too late?

 

[Jcxa]

Mulling? The time for mulling has past a long, long time ago. Apple should be deep into roll out mode. June is the stage to show your Professionals, of all stripes, your credentials. Missing such an opportunity is beyond poor planning, it is sheer managerial malfeasance of the highest order. Many seemed concerned about the price, I believe rather, it is the value that really concerns them. Generally when prices are higher than the value received, customers get angry. Apple has been focused on making their customers angry. Is this thread a mere trial balloon? We will know come June.

 

[NightFox]

Why would anyone need something like this when you can already buy an iPad Pro?

 

[Rlittle89]

If Apple truly cared about the pro industry they would give users the option of NVIDIA again. More and more 3D render engines are optimizing for NVIDIA GPU. Apple's product design and build quality is like no-other, but too many compromises are being made for form over function. (Sincerely, an underwhelmed 2018 i9, Vega 20 MBP owner)

 

[eatrains]

Just a preview in June and 2020 release........I think I'm done with Mac Pro's......started with Quadra950 and ending with a 2010MP.

Screw all the fanboys.....

Where have they announced a 2020 release?

 

[pl1984]

Your post seems like it was meant to be posted two or three years ago as it is very outdated. It is well chronicled how Apple boxed themselves in with the Mac Pro "trash can" design. But that's old news and Apple has recognized its mistake and moved on a couple of years ago.

How much more about this product do we know today than we did back then?

 

[doctor-don]

If they’e going to take until 2020 they could have not only designed tihs new modular Mac Pro, they could have just put out the cheesegrater with updated specs that most of us wanted in 2013 as well...

I hope they’re making something fantastic that will have a low enough starting price.

I fear they are twiddling their thumbs making yet another design that is too clever for its own good and could even mark the end of the Mac Pro if it flops.

As more time goes on hearing nothing it gets harder to remain optimistic. So I guess I do hope they at least show us something soon.

Who is going to buy a modular Mac Pro when it has been more than 6 years since the last upgradeable Mac Pro was produced? More than likely, they have moved on to other computers. My 2008 Mac Pro was still functioning, but it was having problems with freezing and non-upgradability of the OS. The internals should be upgradable, and I am not talking about just the RAM or the graphics card or the storage. So I bought a Mac mini - i7, 16GB, 500 GB. Then I bought a 4-bay external housing and separate USB-C hub since the lightning ports on the mini are too close together to use adapters. I am still using the 2008 23-inch ACD, so I bought another adapter for that.

 

[pl1984]

I can not wait for the new mac pro! I am still running off my 2009 mac pro and it still runs great! That is what is good about spending more up front the system last longer. A $4000 computer has lasted 10 years! So the cost per year is lower then any other lower end mac or PC. So yes you spend a lot of money up front but you get 10 years out of the product. Mac Mini times 4, $4000 is is the same price. And i got a killer machine for many years.

Another strategy is to buy the system you need today for less cost and then upgrade every few years and get a newer, faster system. After 10 years you've spent a similar amount of money but aren't using 10 year old technology.

 

[thevault]

A preview in June this thing needs to ship in June

Exactly !!!!!!!!!!

 

[aaronhead14]

Remember when they stacked the Mac minis last year? Why not have a modular system like that where you can buy different modules, depending on what you need/expand.

Because nobody wants that. Certainly not professionals.

 

[pl1984]

And to reply to another point you made in another post re 128GB being laughable (it is) I suspect they didn't whack a standard HDD in it as the performance wouldn't have matched the other devices - thus delivered a crappier user experience.

IMO that majority of Mini users wouldn't notice the difference between a 2.5" SATA SSD and a NVMe SSD. Not saying I dislike the NVMe SSD but I'd rather it be user replaceable with any standard NVMe SSD.

 

[Think creative]

I want it to be user upgradable. I want this to be a computer that you can run for 10 years. I also want it to be a capable windows gaming machine, so I don’t have to buy one of those down the line.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Remember when they stacked the Mac minis last year? Why not have a modular system like that where you can buy different modules, depending on what you need/expand.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they have in mind; probably with a improved version of TB as the "chain".

 

[skitidetdu]

Looking forward to this! I was hoping for sneak preview in late 2018 as they did with the Mac Pro but you can’t have it all...

 

[Glockworkorange]

$799 for the base Mac mini, with 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD is overpriced, and it just gets worse from there. Upgrading to 16GB is $200; you can get a 8GB stick for under $50, and a 16GB stick is around $100.

1TB is an $800 add-on from Apple. A top of the line, 1TB Samsung 970 Pro is $350, and you can find slower (but still very fast) 1TB NVMe SSDs for $150-250. A 2TB NVMe can be had for $550 or less; Apple wants $1,600 extra for that.

Move away from NVMe, and you can get 2TB for under $300. But of course a 2.5 inch SSD won't fit into the Mac mini, because Apple focuses so much on making it, well, mini. But then to add storage at an affordable price, you've got to go to external storage, as you suggested. At this point, why do I care that the mini is mini? I'm not saving any space on my desk, and now I've got an additional tangle of cords. And so much for the speed advantages of NVMe.

And what an odd pairing high performance NVMe SSD is with low-end, integrated graphics. Want better performance? Throw an external GPU on your desk and credit card. Now your computer isn't looking so mini in size or price.

The Mac mini reflects the worst of Apple right now. Too expensive to be entry level, too limited to be high end. Add external devices to overcome the limits, and its compactness is no longer an advantage. What is the niche Apple is trying to fill here?

I fear the next Mac Pro will take everything wrong with the mini and crank it up a few notches. We don't need an "modular" Mac; we need an upgradeable one. There's a simple elegance to being able to easily add memory and storage, and to keep everything neatly contained inside a single box, so you don't have a tangle of cords and devices. I could do that with my PowerMac towers. Even my 2009 iMac I was able to upgrade with an SSD and an internal hard drive (I removed the DVD).

As I said before, this doesn't need to be complicated, but Apple insists on making it so. Apple's hubris is to blame. They think they must "innovate" for the sake of being different when tried-and-true solutions are not just less expensive, but superior. And they are looking for ways to milk their customers. Why allow people to install their own RAM for $50 when we can charge them $200? Why allow them to upgrade later when we can sell them a new machine (if we ever get around to releasing a new machine)?

I'm not going to say, that's it, I'm moving to Windows. I won't. I hate Windows. I love macOS. I used to love Apple. Which is why it's so frustrating to see them with their heads up their you-know-what. The irony is that they'd produce better machines if they tried a little less hard. If I sound frustrated, it's because I am. It's hard to believe that such a group of smart, talented people can be so stupid.

The first three paragraphs apply to all modern Macs except the 27 inch 5K and that's because that machine lets you swap out the RAM.

So, yes, all Macs are overpriced, but SSD and RAM prices are table stakes when purchasing and evaluating Apple computers. I don't count those in the "cost too much" argument because THEY ALL COST TOO MUCH relative to the cost of the individual parts. If you don't want to pay those prices than there are alternatives.

When we're discussing the AMOUNT of SSD storage---same thing. They are ALL overpriced for the amount of SSD you get at entry level prices.

In other words---your argument applies to all Macs. I'm wondering what specifically about the Mac Mini is overpriced?

Integrated graphics? Fine. Fair point. But the CPU and T2 aren't worthless pieces of this pie.

After the lack of a discrete GPU? What specifically about this Mac is overpriced?

This is a machine was made to be a Swiss army knife. $800 to several thousand dollars. It's the lowest cost Mac by an order of a few hundred bucks. If the answer is "more for less!," well, everyone says that about everything. In my opinion, $799 is a reasonable price for the base model.

 

[twistedpixel8]

For sure it will have a soldered SSD for security with T2 (and its encoding).

What I don’t get is why they can’t utilize some sort of key that just doesn’t allow the SSD to be decrypted unless freshly formatted via T2. This would solve the issue, no? Replaced your SSD? Must be wiped via T2 and new keys generated. Problem solved.

 

[AndiG]

... Mac Pro the most expensive desktop system, that isn‘t even capable to render a modern OpenGL oder Vulkan scene.

 

[Menthol]

My primary need with the Mac Pro is for audio. I don't need VR-level graphics, just a reasonably powerful processor, high RAM capacity, loads of internal storage and PCI-e capability. I can't believe that Apple actually has me worried that they won't deliver this [at some non-stratospheric price point]. I mean, Logic Pro is a core Apple software product, right? I can't be alone in needing this type of setup, and Apple has to realize that - right? Right?!