Apple Must Compensate Brazilian Customer Over $1,000 for Selling iPhone Without a Charger, Judge Rules

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’m unclear on the Lightning port being an issue then. A USBC to Lightning cable is included in the box and Qi charging has worked for years.

The lightning port isn’t an issue as far as I am aware, it’s been in use since 2012. The point of the thread was about a charger not being included with the iPhone, not whether it’s possible for some people to mix and match chargers from elsewhere. All those options are great if you have them already or feel compelled to buy additional accessories etc. Cable that came with my iPhone 12 is still in the box as I already had a wireless charger and at the time didn’t have a USB-C power plug. I do now as I have since bought an iPad which in itself has a different connector to the iPhone. It’s all a bit of a mess and Apple need to address it really.

 

[lartola]

And if they had a USBC port instead, you would charge the phone how?

If they had a USB-C port Apple would include the needed cable in the box. They only stopped including a power brick, they still include a charging cable in all iphone boxes.

 

[lartola]

Not so great for the iPhone though as it doesn’t use USB-C yet, it the Apple exclusive ‘lightning’ connector.

He meant you can use an existing USB-C power brick from another device. The cable isn’t a problem. Apple still includes a charging cable in the box with the iphone, and from the iphone 11 pro onwards that’s a lightning to USB-C cable they include.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

He meant you can use an existing USB-C power brick from another device. The cable isn’t a problem. Apple still includes a charging cable in the box with the iphone, and from the iphone 11 pro onwards that’s a lightning to USB-C cable they include.

That supplied cable was redundant when I bought my iPhone 12 as I didn’t have a USB-C plug at the time. I had an old wireless charger though so it didn’t matter and that cable is still in the box. I now have a plug as one came with my iPad which is kind of ironic as it’s a cheaper product but came with a full charger lol.

 

[deeddawg]

The lightning port isn’t an issue as far as I am aware, it’s been in use since 2012. The point of the thread was about a charger not being included with the iPhone, not whether it’s possible for some people to mix and match chargers from elsewhere.

I guess I’m just not understanding your comment above then.

All those options are great if you have them already or feel compelled to buy additional accessories etc. Cable that came with my iPhone 12 is still in the box as I already had a wireless charger and at the time didn’t have a USB-C power plug.

Like you, I’ve had established charge points for years. Multiport power adapters supplying Qi pads, lighting cables, and micro-B. Plus the occasional mini-B. A couple also have USBC to top up / maintain my rMB12 and MBP12, and more recently a couple Anker Soundcore speakers.

At some point USB power ports are sufficiently ubiquitous that 5W single port USBA bricks are superfluous. Apple may have been ahead of the curve when they started this, yet I’m finding more and more stuff shows up without an yet another useless single port mains adapter to sit in a junk box.

 

[usagora]

All companies are greedy and profit hungry, Apple is no different. It’s just many companies will market charitable commitment and environmental pledges to mask crucial profit driven decisions.

I don't ascribe to such an overly cynical view, thankfully.

I can’t really speak for people who pretend they are broke and won’t buy accessories to be honest. I don’t know anybody who does that.

I didn't say they won't buy them. That's the whole irony of it. They buy them, but then complain about it (yet made no complaints about placing down a wad of cash for the phone/computer/etc.) as if it were some huge financial burden for them to spend and extra $19.99 or whatever.

 

[deeddawg]

huge financial burden for them to spend and extra $19.99 or whatever.

$12 more and they’d be set for a good while.

(What’s it cost to get an order of avocado toast delivered these days? ?)

Nekmit USB C Charger, Thin Flat 52W 4-Port Fast Wall Charger with Two 20W Power Delivery and 2 Port for iPhone 14/14 Pro/14 Pro Max, Galaxy, Pixel, iPad Pro, AirPods More, Upgraded

Nekmit USB C Charger, Thin Flat 52W 4-Port Fast Wall Charger with Two 20W Power Delivery and 2 Port for iPhone 14/14 Pro/14 Pro Max, Galaxy, Pixel, iPad Pro, AirPods More, Upgraded

www.amazon.com

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I don't ascribe to such an overly cynical view, thankfully.

Not everything is as fluffy as the marketing would like you to believe. There is money to be made and business is a cut-throat, especially with these multi-billion pound corporations.

I didn't say they won't buy them. That's the whole irony of it. They buy them, but then complain about it (yet made no complaints about placing down a wad of cash for the phone/computer/etc.) as if it were some huge financial burden for them to spend and extra $19.99 or whatever.

If consumers don’t voice displeasure from over paying for items, nothing ever changes. I don’t really like paying £1.79 a litre or £8.14 for a gallon of diesel to put in my car, but if I didn’t buy it, I wouldn’t go anywhere. It’s entirely feasible to buy something and be displeased about it too.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

$12 more and they’d be set for a good while.

(What’s it cost to get an order of avocado toast delivered these days? )

Nekmit USB C Charger, Thin Flat 52W 4-Port Fast Wall Charger with Two 20W Power Delivery and 2 Port for iPhone 14/14 Pro/14 Pro Max, Galaxy, Pixel, iPad Pro, AirPods More, Upgraded

Nekmit USB C Charger, Thin Flat 52W 4-Port Fast Wall Charger with Two 20W Power Delivery and 2 Port for iPhone 14/14 Pro/14 Pro Max, Galaxy, Pixel, iPad Pro, AirPods More, Upgraded

www.amazon.com

The British equivalent of that product is $51.17 here. We don’t half get ripped off.

 

[usagora]

Not everything is as fluffy as the marketing would like you to believe.

Of course not, but neither is it all BS like you make it out to be. It's not an either-or proposition. Corporations can take place in sincere initiatives while still making a profit. They can also lose profits by doing so, such as companies closing down stores in Russia.

If consumers don’t voice displeasure from over paying for items, nothing ever changes. I don’t really like paying £1.79 a litre or £8.14 for a gallon of diesel to put in my car, but if I didn’t buy it, I wouldn’t go anywhere. It’s entirely feasible to buy something and be displeased about it too.

Bad analogy because fuel is a necessity - you have no choice. An Apple product is not - you do have a choice. And if consumers continue to purchase Apple products at the price they're at, why on earth would Apple lower the price? The only way it will change is if you vote with your wallet. If you don't, then by your actions of purchasing a non-necessary product, you are tacitly agreeing to the pricing even if you say you don't.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

They didn’t use to. It’s like saying bmw used to provide free oil changes. The totality of the price of the iPhone takes into account what’s in the box. Seems as if people thought it was free. And with that misunderstanding misguided thinking with respect to profits vs environment started.

So if they optionally gave the charger for free with the phone again, the price would reflect that like before. It's splitting hairs anyway cause there's no way the charger significantly affected the price.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

Been using MagSafe exclusively with both my previous iPhone 12 Pro and current 13 Pro Max with no issues and still at 100% battery health ??‍♂️ And all I'm saying is that I find it ironic that people freely spend a ton on the phone and then act like they're broke when they have to buy a charger, dongle, etc.

It's not about being broke, it's about not wanting to bother with stuff that shouldn't be a problem in the first place. Missing charger is such a tiny annoyance that I don't even care, but dongles suck.

 

[usagora]

It's not about being broke, it's about not wanting to bother with stuff that shouldn't be a problem in the first place. Missing charger is such a tiny annoyance that I don't even care, but dongles suck.

I can't relate to that. I simply buy which adapters I know I'll need and use them as the need arises. If I need to use them simultaneously, then I can easily buy a hub. It's not like they're big and heavy these days. I simply don't understand why people get so stirred up by it. Photographers, for instance, have it a lot worse - having to carry around multiple heavy lenses and other equipment to attach to their main camera body. All most Mac users need could fit in a small bag and not weigh a lot.

 

[Abazigal]

So if they optionally gave the charger for free with the phone again, the price would reflect that like before. It's splitting hairs anyway cause there's no way the charger significantly affected the price.

It would affect the price in the following ways:

1) Reduced shipping fees because you can fit more iPhones into the same pallet (this is likely the most significant source of savings).

2) Some consumers will buy a separate charger from Apple. Bundling a free charger, with its separate packaging, would just muddle Apple’s messaging.

3) The cost of the charger, however cheap to manufacturer, adds up.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

I can't relate to that. I simply buy which adapters I know I'll need and use them as the need arises. If I need to use them simultaneously, then I can easily buy a hub. It's not like they're big and heavy these days. I simply don't understand why people get so stirred up by it. Photographers, for instance, have it a lot worse - having to carry around multiple heavy lenses and other equipment to attach to their main camera body. All most Mac users need could fit in a small bag and not weigh a lot.

The biggest issue is that video dongles never work reliably. Not even my CalDigit TB dock. Thankfully the latest MBP got HDMI back.

As for carrying stuff around, I don't want to be compared to a photographer. My 2015 MBP can be carried around by itself without needing dongles. The 2019 MBP at my work needs a bag full of stuff. It's a newer machine, but it's a worse experience. Same with my new iPhone 12 needing an ⅛" dongle when my 6 had no such problem. But this is all secondary to the issue of video dongles.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

It would affect the price in the following ways:

1) Reduced shipping fees because you can fit more iPhones into the same pallet (this is likely the most significant source of savings).

2) Some consumers will buy a separate charger from Apple. Bundling a free charger, with its separate packaging, would just muddle Apple’s messaging.

3) The cost of the charger, however cheap to manufacturer, adds up.

Price is per-unit, and per-unit I won't believe it added more than $1 to the cost to land. Apple probably ate the majority of that cost.

 

[usagora]

The biggest issue is that video dongles never work reliably. Not even my CalDigit TB dock. Thankfully the latest MBP got HDMI back.

As for carrying stuff around, I don't want to be compared to a photographer. My 2015 MBP can be carried around by itself without needing dongles. The 2019 MBP at my work needs a bag full of stuff. It's a newer machine, but it's a worse experience. Same with my new iPhone 12 needing an ⅛" dongle when my 6 had no such problem. But this is all secondary to the issue of video dongles.

Never had an issue with mine except with one but only when used with a projector (I simply bought another brand and it worked). And my point was it's NOT like a photographer where you have to lug around a lot of large, heavy items. It's all very light and compact stuff. Not really that big of a deal.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It would affect the price in the following ways:

1) Reduced shipping fees because you can fit more iPhones into the same pallet (this is likely the most significant source of savings).

2) Some consumers will buy a separate charger from Apple. Bundling a free charger, with its separate packaging, would just muddle Apple’s messaging.

3) The cost of the charger, however cheap to manufacturer, adds up.

I think it is less about green incentives and very much about Apple maximising their profit. The message masks that though. When you think iPhones jumped up in price too when the charger was removed from the product you realise this is even truer. One positive to it is it’s pushed a lot of consumers towards the third party accessory market. If I were to buy a new cable now, I won’t waste £15 on the poor quality white cables Apple sell when I can get a braided third party cable for half the price.

 

[bj097]

There is no doubt that reducing chargers is good to the environment but Apple does not reduce the price of their Apple iPhone after reducing chargers and under economic downturn due to COVID-19 so their real reason behind is to maximize their profits, rather than to do something for the environment

I also do not agree with Apple's view that many customers already have chargers, I am living in a well developed city and honestly speaking I had NO charger for an iPhone when I bought it in 2021 and I had to pay $20 more for that which was really ridiculous

 

[I7guy]

So if they optionally gave the charger for free with the phone again, the price would reflect that like before. It's splitting hairs anyway cause there's no way the charger significantly affected the price.

Apple will no longer include the charger in the price of the phone, imo. Want a brick it will add 2% to the price of the phone or so. ($20 on $1000 phone)

 

[I7guy]

There is no doubt that reducing chargers is good to the environment but Apple does not reduce the price of their Apple iPhone after reducing chargers and under economic downturn due to COVID-19 so their real reason behind is to maximize their profits, rather than to do something for the environment

I also do not agree with Apple's view that many customers already have chargers, I am living in a well developed city and honestly speaking I had NO charger for an iPhone when I bought it in 2021 and I had to pay $20 more for that which was really ridiculous

Many customers having chargers do not equal 100% of planet earth having a charger. As far as reducing the price of their phone due to the Economic downturn, why should apple? Nobody else, except my car insurance(I was driving 10 miles a week during lockdown), gave me a break.

Apple is definitely saving money all around by not including a charger, but it’s also great for the environment not to produce 100s of millions.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

As far as reducing the price of their phone due to the Economic downturn, why should apple? Nobody else, except my car insurance(I was driving 10 miles a week during lockdown), gave me a break.

I think if Apple continue to creep the prices up as they have the last 2 years, I will definitely evaluate whether or not I upgrade to a newly released model. It might be more cost effective to purchase an iPhone 13 in September for myself and others fed up with companies increasing retail costs. It’s not a case of not being able to afford a latest model but more a case of why should I buy one? I’ll see at launch whether or not it’s worth it.

 

[panjandrum]

I agree. The analogy is not quite correct in detail, but I saw that. My point is still valid. In your attempt to appear intellectual, you missed that. The user had to know that a charger was not included, yet they purchased the product anyway and sued. It doesn't matter if the gas is more akin to electricity. It's essential in the car experience similar to the charger being essential in the iPhone experience. To take the analogy further in this case is a bit of a red herring. It's not a 'subtle key difference' - its not relevant in this instance. I could have said alternator or some other non-consumable but it would not have changed the point.

Like a person who buys a car, they know they need gas and that gas in not included with the purchase of the car. So, it would be absurd to sue for gas in this instance. Similarly with a charger, If you know it's essential and not included, to purchase the product and sue, make no sense.

Maybe reading comprehension should also be included in our education curriculum?

Salty man, sooooo salty! ?

See? This is why we need real critical-thinking training in education, as early as possible:

We could have engaged in a meaningful conversation and debate regarding whether a consumable in this case is or is not a valid analogy to use in a comparison with a non-consumable. Instead you've simply responded with (at the risk of sounding like one of those gosh-durn intellectuals ?) an ad hominem attack and then doubled-down with an attack against intellectuals and the educated. I highly suggest a read of "Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Home of the Free." That will explain the long history of 'ignorant > enlightened' that pervades, and is now being actively promoted, in our society. It's victimizing everyone, all of us, on both sides of the argument.

The problem is that the type of argument you presented in the first place is very compelling to the unwary. But it's exactly the type of thing that allows the less-than-scrupulous in our world trick people with an inaccurate argument that still rings with 'truthiness.' It's OK to be wrong; we are all wrong over and over and over again in life. It's part of learning and growing.

TLDR; I'll take attempting to bettering oneself, even if that attempt is often flawed, over willful ignorance any day; and so should everyone.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Salty man, sooooo salty! ?

See? This is why we need real critical-thinking training in education, as early as possible:

We could have engaged in a meaningful conversation and debate regarding whether a consumable in this case is or is not a valid analogy to use in a comparison with a non-consumable. Instead you've simply responded with (at the risk of sounding like one of those gosh-durn intellectuals ?) an ad hominem attack and then doubled-down with an attack against intellectuals and the educated. I highly suggest a read of "Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Home of the Free." That will explain the long history of 'ignorant > enlightened' that pervades, and is now being actively promoted, in our society. It's victimizing everyone, all of us, on both sides of the argument.

The problem is that the type of argument you presented in the first place is very compelling to the unwary. But it's exactly the type of thing that allows the less-than-scrupulous in our world trick people with an inaccurate argument that still rings with 'truthiness.' It's OK to be wrong; we are all wrong over and over and over again in life. It's part of learning and growing.

TLDR; I'll take attempting to bettering oneself, even if that attempt is often flawed, over willful ignorance any day; and so should everyone.

I think two analogies can perhaps present the question in the light of the consumer instead of the developers.

You could ask the question if you buy a Tesla, should you be able to buy trinkets that’s verified only by Tesla and available in their store?

3d party manufacturers can technically sell them to you in their own store but you won’t be able to use it because of code in the car actively preventing it.

You could pay Tesla 100$ a year to be granted testing ability and circumvent the limitations and install whatever you want inside or outside the car, you just need to reinstall it after 1year.


Now you could say manufacturers doesn’t have a right or the Tesla/iPhone platform and I agree.
But then why doesn’t the consumer have the right to do whatever they want with their goods? Why are they treated like lenders or leasing contractor instead of owners of their gods?

Why is it absurd to not have the ability to install what I want on my car. But it would be extremely absurd if I couldn’t install whatever I want in my car without asking the manufacturers permission?

There’s strong difference between being prevented to do something because of electrically or physically incompatible things. Such as playing PlayStation games on Pc or Xbox games on the PlayStation. And physical incompatible like diesel in normal car.

And actively having a code checking so you installed signed and approved tires

 

[I7guy]

I think two analogies can perhaps present the question in the light of the consumer instead of the developers.

You could ask the question if you buy a Tesla, should you be able to buy trinkets that’s verified only by Tesla and available in their store?

Sure. Tesla could prevent it and you could make a purchase decision based on app installation freedom.

3d party manufacturers can technically sell them to you in their own store but you won’t be able to use it because of code in the car actively preventing it.

Yup.

You could pay Tesla 100$ a year to be granted testing ability and circumvent the limitations and install whatever you want inside or outside the car, you just need to reinstall it after 1year.

This would be fine also.

Now you could say manufacturers doesn’t have a right or the Tesla/iPhone platform and I agree.
But then why doesn’t the consumer have the right to do whatever they want with their goods? Why are they treated like lenders or leasing contractor instead of owners of their gods?

You can do whatever you want with your goods, the manufacturer does t have to support you. For example, if you want to replace your Samsung qled with an oled, Samsung doesn’t support it, but you could certainly attempt it.

Why is it absurd to not have the ability to install what I want on my car. But it would be extremely absurd if I couldn’t install whatever I want in my car without asking the manufacturers permission?

Because one doesnt purchase software. You could do what you want with Tesla operating system, but Tesla doesn’t have to support you.

There’s strong difference between being prevented to do something because of electrically or physically incompatible things. Such as playing PlayStation games on Pc or Xbox games on the PlayStation. And physical incompatible like diesel in normal car.

And actively having a code checking so you installed signed and approved tires

It’s not your platform, don’t buy it if you dont like the limitations. Or you could buy the device and hope the government regulates such that one wouldn’t even recognize what it was.