Apple Must Compensate Brazilian Customer Over $1,000 for Selling iPhone Without a Charger, Judge Rules

[The-Real-Deal82]

Which is maybe why Apple should call it quits in Brazil. They won't, but maybe they should consider it.

That would hurt Apple much more than it would hurt the consumers in Brazil but I suppose they could. I think a better alternative would be to supply a charger with each iPhone sold in that market. As another poster said, it doesn’t have to be included in the same packaging as the phone but be supplied as an accessory.

Consumers laws differ by region and manufacturers supplying those markets have to be aware of these. If every manufacturer expected these laws to be adjusted for their individual business models, there would be no point in having consumer laws in the first place. I am thankful for these laws in my country otherwise these manufacturers would be dictating our warranty periods and pricing to suit their profits rather than the consumer having a fair deal.

 

[I7guy]

Well, yes it is, because you don't need to ship the charger and the iPhone in the same box. They just need to be delivered in the same bag. just as they do now when you buy any accessory that comes in their own package

Or apple should make sure they do not break the law before doing things. Just as iPhones sold in France included headphones by law and apple wasn't sued as they knew this before shipping it in the same slim package

Don’t think apple broke the law knowingly. Likely they got bad advice from their corporate attorneys (the department who posters claim to be located in Brazil to interpret local laws. My point still stands if this is going to cost apple the entirety of it’s revenue, maybe they should call it quits and move on.

 

[I7guy]

If it were about the environment, they'd still allow you to add the charger for free or at-cost with the purchase of a new iPhone. Like asking for a straw in a California restaurant.

Why should apple provide one free of charge? If apple were about the environment they would provide one packaging free for a suitable charge, like $20

 

[usagora]

Not much use to him if he can’t charge it I suppose lol. It is a bit bizarre selling such expensive products under the assumption everybody will just use an old charger or pay yet more for a third party product just to use it. It’s all about profit under the guise of green thinking but still.

Not bizarre at all. I bet the majority of iPhone buyers already have a means to charge it, and if you don't, there's no need to buy a "third party product" since you can still buy the charger separately from Apple. And I also bet a lot of people plan on using MagSafe to charge anyway, so even if the standard charger were included, it wouldn't do them any good.

By the way, is Apple prohibited by Brazilian law from selling Mac Minis without a keyboard and mouse, since a Mini would be useless without them? I don't see any logical difference. Do they allow laminators to be sold without laminating pouches/film? What about battery-powered products being sold without batteries? Pillows without pillowcases? Microphones without cables? Where does the absurdity end?

 

[sudo-sandwich]

Why should apple provide one free of charge?

Cause they used to. Now they're making lots of money selling overpriced ones. No reason to believe the change was selfless when it's directly benefitting them.

 

[Wingsley]

Maybe my comments will be seen as contrarian here, but I say good for the Brazilians. This isn't rocket science. If Apple sells a rechargeable cell phone, and the consumer protection law requires such a device to include a means of charging with it, then Apple had the opportunity to avoid legal issues and simply provide a charger with the phone. Problem solved.

All of these smartphone manufacturers are getting away with scamming their customers anyway. A consumer can't even replace a battery on most of these outrageously expensive gadgets anymore. "They see you coming" seems to apply.

The Brazilians gave Apple a mere taste of what the company deserves. All Apple had to do was make sure the new phones came with chargers. Not rocket science. At least the Brazilians are smart enough to have a consumer protection law. We don't even have that in the United States.

 

[lartola]

Why should apple provide one free of charge? If apple were about the environment they would provide one packaging free for a suitable charge, like $20

They provided one free of charge for years until they decided to stop doing it in 2020 with the excuse of the environment. Now you’re ok with them charging for what they used to provide free of charge and even see it as normal business? I don’t get you.

 

[I7guy]

They provided one free of charge for years until they decided to stop doing it in 2020 with the excuse of the environment. Now you’re ok with them charging for what they used to provide free of charge and even see it as normal business? I don’t get you.

The brick was never free it was included in the final price. Not including the brick allows for a number of environmental friendly actions as well as mitigate the rise in manufacturing costs, of which apple didn’t raise the price of its base model.

Apple, imo, is not going to give away the brick, especially if they are forced to provide it. I don’t know why this is difficult.

 

[I7guy]

Cause they used to. Now they're making lots of money selling overpriced ones. No reason to believe the change was selfless when it's directly benefitting them.

They didn’t use to. It’s like saying bmw used to provide free oil changes. The totality of the price of the iPhone takes into account what’s in the box. Seems as if people thought it was free. And with that misunderstanding misguided thinking with respect to profits vs environment started.

 

[lartola]

The brick was never free it was included in the final price. Not including the brick allows for a number of environmental friendly actions as well as mitigate the rise in manufacturing costs, of which apple didn’t raise the price of its base model.

Apple, imo, is not going to give away the brick, especially if they are forced to provide it. I don’t know why this is difficult.

I know. But Apple charging an additional $20 for re-adding the brick to the box means they’d be charging the price of the brick twice, since they never excluded it from the final price of the iphone when they removed the brick from the box. And people are ok with that. I just don’t get it.

 

[lartola]

They didn’t use to. It’s like saying bmw used to provide free oil changes. The totality of the price of the iPhone takes into account what’s in the box. Seems as if people thought it was free. And with that misunderstanding misguided thinking with respect to profits vs environment started.

They used to include the price of the charger in the final price of the phone. And they didn’t stop doing that when they stopped putting the charger in the box. If they now want to charge an extra $20 for re-adding a charger, that would be ‘pay the price of 2 chargers and get only one’. What a nice promo that’d be.

 

[I7guy]

I know. But Apple charging an additional $20 for re-adding the brick to the box means they’d be charging the price of the brick twice, since they never excluded it from the final price of the iphone when they removed the brick from the box. And people are ok with that. I just don’t get it.

Imo, they didn’t reduce the price of the iPhone because this years iphone probably costs more to manufacture than last years, thus offsetting the rise in costs.

I don’t blame apple for not giving back the cost savings especially in light of this idiocy. If people aren’t ok with this, vote with your $$$, give apple the $20 bucks or buy your own mfi.

 

[lartola]

Imo, they didn’t reduce the price of the iPhone because this years iphone probably costs more to manufacture than last years, thus offsetting the rise in costs.

I don’t blame apple for not giving back the cost savings especially in light of this idiocy. If people aren’t ok with this, vote with your $$$, give apple the $20 bucks or buy your own mfi.

We would if we could, but we can’t vote with our wallet if other manufacturers are following Apple’s bad example and shipping phones without chargers too.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Don’t think apple broke the law knowingly. Likely they got bad advice from their corporate attorneys (the department who posters claim to be located in Brazil to interpret local laws. My point still stands if this is going to cost apple the entirety of it’s revenue, maybe they should call it quits and move on.

Sounds more like the fee is a punishment for knowingly breaking the law. Getting bad advice is not an excuse for having entire legal departments. It's their responsibility to follow the local laws and regulations. I can't sell ice cream and break the law and say I didn't know.

Seems better to get an expensive fine to deter illegal behavior than it just being a slap on the wrist included in the calculation of doing business and ignored.

 

[I7guy]

We would if we could, but we can’t vote with our wallet if other manufacturers are following Apple’s bad example and shipping phones without chargers too.

Yes that is happening, chargers sold separately. But apparently not in Brazil.

 

[I7guy]

Sounds more like the fee is a punishment for knowingly breaking the law. Getting bad advice is not an excuse for having entire legal departments. It's their responsibility to follow the local laws and regulations. I can't sell ice cream and break the law and say I didn't know.

Actually the law makes several distinctions with respect to knowingly breaking the law and unknowingly breaking the law.

Seems better to get an expensive fine to deter illegal behavior than it just being a slap on the wrist included in the calculation of doing business and ignored.

Yes, similar to the fines in the Netherlands.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Not bizarre at all. I bet the majority of iPhone buyers already have a means to charge it, and if you don't, there's no need to buy a "third party product" since you can still buy the charger separately from Apple. And I also bet a lot of people plan on using MagSafe to charge anyway, so even if the standard charger were included, it wouldn't do them any good.

By the way, is Apple prohibited by Brazilian law from selling Mac Minis without a keyboard and mouse, since a Mini would be useless without them? I don't see any logical difference. Do they allow laminators to be sold without laminating pouches/film? What about battery-powered products being sold without batteries? Pillows without pillowcases? Microphones without cables? Where does the absurdity end?

Not everybody who buys an iPhone is a successive iPhone buyer though and yes you can buy an additional £25 charger from Apple or a £59 MagSafe charger but that’s more money in top of the £700-£1500 the consumer has already spent on the phone. I’d rather advise people to buy third party and steer their money away from Apple if a charger is no longer included. Why give all the profit to the company that has decided to no longer give a fundamental component needed to use the product?

I would bet the majority of iPhone users aren’t using MagSafe yet. Nobody I know uses it even with iPhone 12 onwards devices and that’s probably down to the fact MagSafe chargers are significantly more expensive than a simple cable or £10 wireless charger on Amazon. That maybe a country thing though as MagSafe is perhaps more popular in countries like America where it’s been marketed more.

 

[usagora]

Not everybody who buys an iPhone is a successive iPhone buyer though

Which is why I carefully said "the majority" (not "all"). And you wouldn't necessarily have to have owned an iPhone previously to have a USB-C charger, as other devices use them as well and of course many hubs have USB-C ports as well.

and yes you can buy an additional £25 charger from Apple or a £59 MagSafe charger but that’s more money in top of the £700-£1500 the consumer has already spent on the phone. I’d rather advise people to buy third party and steer their money away from Apple if a charger is no longer included. Why give all the profit to the company that has decided to no longer give a fundamental component needed to use the product?

I think this is an odd soap box to get on, but obviously that's your right as a consumer if you feel that strongly about it. I guess that means if you ever buy a Mac Mini, you'll have to buy a third party keyboard and mouse because Apple doesn't include those "fundamental components" with that Mac and you won't want to give them "all the profit". Of course, that makes one wonder why you're buying any Apple product to begin with if you feel that way. Seems most people complaining about the lack of charger are continuing to buy iPhones and other Apple products, which tells me deep down they don't really feel as strongly about it as they say they do.

I would bet the majority of iPhone users aren’t using MagSafe yet. Nobody I know uses it even with iPhone 12 onwards devices and that’s probably down to the fact MagSafe chargers are significantly more expensive than a simple cable or £10 wireless charger on Amazon. That maybe a country thing though as MagSafe is perhaps more popular in countries like America where it’s been marketed more.

I feel pretty confident that a WHOLE lot of iPhone users are using MagSafe for charging. It's very convenient and still very fast (imo). It's expensive, but so are iPhones. That's why I always chuckle when people spend often over a thousand on an iPhone and then start penny-pinching on accessories 🤣 I always take the entire cost of ownership into account up front, depending of course on how I want to use the product.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Which is why I carefully said "the majority" (not "all"). And you wouldn't necessarily have to have owned an iPhone previously to have a USB-C charger, as other devices use them as well and of course many hubs have USB-C ports as well.

Not so great for the iPhone though as it doesn’t use USB-C yet, it the Apple exclusive ‘lightning’ connector.

I think this is an odd soap box to get on, but obviously that's your right as a consumer if you feel that strongly about it. I guess that means if you ever buy a Mac Mini, you'll have to buy a third party keyboard and mouse because Apple doesn't include those "fundamental components" with that Mac and you won't want to give them "all the profit". Of course, that makes one wonder why you're buying any Apple product to begin with if you feel that way. Seems most people complaining about the lack of charger are continuing to buy iPhones and other Apple products, which tells me deep down they don't really feel as strongly about it as they say they do.

My simple answer to that is not to buy a computer that doesn’t come with the basic accessories needed to run it. I buy the iPhone because I’ve used them for a decade or more now and use iPads, Apple Watch etc. I’m not a Mac user as they don’t run the software I use for my job and use an iPad for personal use. The lack of charger doesn’t both me personally on the iPhone as I have a wireless charger that I’ve had for the last 5 years.

I feel pretty confident that a WHOLE lot of iPhone users are using MagSafe for charging. It's very convenient and still very fast (imo). It's expensive, but so are iPhones. That's why I always chuckle when people spend often over a thousand on an iPhone and then start penny-pinching on accessories I always take the entire cost of ownership into account up front, depending of course on how I want to use the product.

I’m pretty confident a large number of iPhone users also don’t use MagSafe either. It offers no incentive for me and I’d imagine a lot of people also haven’t bothered investing in it. The way the battery has been on my iPhone 12 I am glad I don’t have a charger known for heating the phone up even more than needed. I’ve never spent a grand on a mobile phone either as I don’t have to, luckily. It’s not about ‘penny pinching’, it’s about buying the things you want and value. Saying that, penny pinching is the norm in the current climate and cutting out unnecessary purchases will be at the top of a lot of peoples agendas.

 

[usagora]

Not so great for the iPhone though as it doesn’t use USB-C yet, it the Apple exclusive ‘lightning’ connector.

Only the iPhone end is Lightning. The other end of the cable is USB-C and can be used with any USB-C charger/port. Apple still includes the Lightning-to-USB-C cable with the iPhone, so you're all set as long as you have a USB-C charger of some sort.

My simple answer to that is not to buy a computer that doesn’t come with the basic accessories needed to run it.

That's one choice. The other, assuming you like the product in question, is to buy it and then purchase the necessary accessories if you don't already have them without implying Apple is being "greedy" or some other pejorative term by not including them. If you open your wallet and shell out the cash, then your actions are saying it's worth it, regardless of what you say with your words ("you" meaning anyone here, not you personally).

I’m pretty confident a large number of iPhone users also don’t use MagSafe either. It offers no incentive for me and I’d imagine a lot of people also haven’t bothered investing in it. The way the battery has been on my iPhone 12 I am glad I don’t have a charger known for heating the phone up even more than needed. I’ve never spent a grand on a mobile phone either as I don’t have to, luckily. It’s not about ‘penny pinching’, it’s about buying the things you want and value. Saying that, penny pinching is the norm in the current climate and cutting out unnecessary purchases will be at the top of a lot of peoples agendas.

Been using MagSafe exclusively with both my previous iPhone 12 Pro and current 13 Pro Max with no issues and still at 100% battery health 🤷🏼‍♂️ And all I'm saying is that I find it ironic that people freely spend a ton on the phone and then act like they're broke when they have to buy a charger, dongle, etc.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

That's one choice. The other, assuming you like the product in question, is to buy it and then purchase the necessary accessories if you don't already have them without implying Apple is being "greedy" or some other pejorative term by not including them. If you open your wallet and shell out the cash, then your actions are saying it's worth it, regardless of what you say with your words ("you" meaning anyone here, not you personally).

Hence why so many products exist and it’s all very subjective to the individual whether something is worth it or not. The consumer ultimately holds all the power and always has. All companies are greedy and profit hungry, Apple is no different. It’s just many companies will market charitable commitment and environmental pledges to mask crucial profit driven decisions.

Been using MagSafe exclusively with both my previous iPhone 12 Pro and current 13 Pro Max with no issues and still at 100% battery health And all I'm saying is that I find it ironic that people freely spend a ton on the phone and then act like they're broke when they have to buy a charger, dongle, etc.

I can’t really speak for people who pretend they are broke and won’t buy accessories to be honest. I don’t know anybody who does that.

 

[deeddawg]

Not so great for the iPhone though as it doesn’t use USB-C yet, it the Apple exclusive ‘lightning’ connector.

And if they had a USBC port instead, you would charge the phone how?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

And if they had a USBC port instead, you would charge the phone how?

With the old wireless charger I have (my main charger) or with the USB-C charger from my iPad. I can only answer for me though if your question was meant more broadly.

 

[deeddawg]

I feel pretty confident that a WHOLE lot of iPhone users are using MagSafe for charging. It's very convenient and still very fast (imo).

… and folks seem to forget Qi chargers have worked with iPhones for years.

I have Anker models at my desk, kitchen side counter, and nightstand.

 

[deeddawg]

With the old wireless charger I have (my main charger) or with the USB-C charger from my iPad. I can only answer for me though if your question was meant more broadly.

I’m unclear on the Lightning port being an issue then. A USBC to Lightning cable is included in the box and Qi charging has worked for years.