This whole ruling is about what Ireland did, not about what Apple did. And it's Ireland, the country that made the deal ... not Apple ... that's appealing it.
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Apple Must Repay $14.5 Billion in Back Taxes, EU Commission Rules
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Well, if Apple pull out of this, the Irish government can just use the tax money to compensate the prospective employees with $13million each. Not a bad deal!
What do you mean, exactly? Consistency of law is paramount, and Apple paid what was due under current Irish laws. It's as simple as that.
Then, we could talk about ethics in paying so little taxes, but that's a completely different topic.
Yes I read it as being fraud too? I can't see how having a fake company headquarters is anything else. Certainly under EU law which they have to follow.
I won't be surprised if all the others that have been caught or are under investigation are following similar tactics and methods.
This is like someone in the US who lives near a border and drives across state lines to buy their iPad because the sales tax rate is lower there. When the customer brings home their iPad they are supposed to pay the difference.
It's like ordering online from a company that doesn't add sales tax to the order. Again, the customer is supposed to calculate their local sales tax and pay it.
Many of these sales are recorded. Imagine if your state government calculated all the back taxes you legally owe and sent you a bill, or simply garnished your wages or your savings account.
It's like ordering online from a company that doesn't add sales tax to the order. Again, the customer is supposed to calculate their local sales tax and pay it.
Many of these sales are recorded. Imagine if your state government calculated all the back taxes you legally owe and sent you a bill, or simply garnished your wages or your savings account.
Dang, they housed in Ireland because they thought America taxed too much and that helping out Bono's home country would help spread international camaraderie.
And yet they also think American workers are too expensive, hence moving jobs to other countries too.
Nice, Apple, real show of human rights going on...
And yet they also think American workers are too expensive, hence moving jobs to other countries too.
Nice, Apple, real show of human rights going on...
Does anyone here pay more tax than they're legally required to pay? As far as I know no one is suggesting Apple did anything illegal. I'm sorry but it's not Apple's responsibility to fund Europe's welfare state.
"everyone" ? You've heard of the lack of wealth distribution driving dissent in the US and elsewhere, yes ?
Thing is, growth is finite and one day when the exploitation of workers everywhere reaches critical mass, the consumer-driven profit model will fall apart for the detriment of all.
And what about the EU law and legislation that they also have to abide by as being part of the EU single market then. It was illegal, they have said so, it's pretty hard to argue otherwise against a 3 year investigation by experts and lawyers etc.
Consistency of law is indeed important. That's why you can't have one government in a single market deciding to make sweetheart tax deals, with one set of tax laws that apply to one company, and a different set of tax laws that apply to everyone else.
The Irish government knew their scheme was illegal under EU laws (which they signed up to), and Apple are rich enough to employ decent tax lawyers to advise them that the scheme was vulnerable to being overturned.
Ireland is literally appealing having 14 billion Euros returned back to them. Nothing fishy here, Apple and Ireland are in the clear 
Good for them! How can these companies be so greedy?! Acting all moral and caring about their customers and the never ending, cringeworthy sentence from Cook "enriching peoples lives". Meanwhile they are doing everything they can, abusing every loophole, just to pay as little as possible back to the people. Granted, this money is not going directly back to the customers' pockets, but it will find it's way back to society by new roads, schools, safety, healthcare etc. etc.
All of their customers are being nickel and dimed for the lamest things like storage and ridiculously expensive accessories and are forced to shell out half of their monthly income (if not more) to be able to get a iDevice or Mac that isn't crippled by something like 12 usable gb's or a 5400rpm hdd.
And yeah, I know it's not just Apple. And I hope this is just the start and EU looks into more of these greedy companies.
All of their customers are being nickel and dimed for the lamest things like storage and ridiculously expensive accessories and are forced to shell out half of their monthly income (if not more) to be able to get a iDevice or Mac that isn't crippled by something like 12 usable gb's or a 5400rpm hdd.
And yeah, I know it's not just Apple. And I hope this is just the start and EU looks into more of these greedy companies.
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Wrong wrong question.....
To answer the question of fair .... My tax rate next to apple's tax rate
if you think 0.005% is fair.....invest in a dictionary
I'd be surprised if 1% of Americans that didn't pay sales tax on Amazon orders actually claimed that amount when they filed their state taxes. Nobody wants to pay taxes, and for most people, it's only unfair when someone cheats more on their taxes than they did.
I think you're looking at 2013 / 2014 when Exxon and Chevron were above Apple. Since then their revenues have halved while Apple's have increased - Apple now pays much more tax.
Apple is by far the largest tax payer in the US, Tim Cook said so under oath at the Senate sub-committee last year.
http://amigobulls.com/stocks/XOM/income-statement/quarterly
http://amigobulls.com/stocks/AAPL/income-stament/quarterly
extend the table to 2014 and look at the lines revenue and provisions for income taxes
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Ouch! Non US iPhone 7 are gonna go up in price on what's to be known as the Irish-Rub
Apple can't arbitrarily increase their prices to compensate for a bigger tax bill. Pricing is dependent on the market. If prices go up, sales will go down.
Apple have done nothing illegal. Immoral yes but not illegal. Ireland already has one of the lowest tax rates in Europe at 15% but Apple wanted to pay even less than that. Ireland and Luxembourg have enriched themselves at a likely cost of €100's billion in lost taxes to UK, France, Germany, Holland, Italy, Spain etc. It's a disgraceful mess and one which Apple should be embarrased to be part of. Their actions are reducing funding for schools and hospitals not just in Europe but also in the US
Its time for tax law to be changed globaly. Profits need to be taxed where the profit is created via the sale of the item. If that's not feasible then countries should apply import duties - say 10-20% which make the companies voluntarily pay taxes in the country of sale.
Its time for tax law to be changed globaly. Profits need to be taxed where the profit is created via the sale of the item. If that's not feasible then countries should apply import duties - say 10-20% which make the companies voluntarily pay taxes in the country of sale.
Apple must repay 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion) in back taxes dating back to 2003-2014, the European Commission has ruled (via BBC).
The Apple tax ruling was confirmed this morning, after the judgement was leaked to the media yesterday. In unequivocal wording, the EU commissioner Margrethe Vestager said Apple's tax benefits in Ireland are "illegal".
Vestiges [sic] said this selective treatment allowed Apple to pay an effective corporate tax rate of 1 percent on its European profits in 2003 down to 0.005 percent in 2014. Therefore in 2014 Apple paid 0.005 percent tax on EU profits, which means that "For every million euros in profits, it (Apple) paid just EUR500 in taxes," said Vestager. "This is based on an in-depth investigation, it's based on the facts. I also think and hope that if it goes to the courts that it will be upheld by the European Court."
Article Link: Apple Must Repay $14.5 Billion in Back Taxes, EU Commission Rules
The key is in the quotation from Vestager (which did not come through on its own):
""The Commission has concluded that Ireland granted undue tax benefits of up to EUR13 billion to Apple. This is illegal under EU state aid rules, because it allowed Apple to pay substantially less tax than other businesses. Ireland must now recover the illegal aid.""
"That" which is "illegal under EU state aid rules" was done by Ireland, and "Ireland must now recover the illegal aid."
The fundamental issue from an EU perspective is that Ireland has taken in tremendous amounts of support from the EU while granting sweetheart deals to multinationals. In order to obtain EU benefits, Ireland has to follow the rules that other EU nations follow (especially because they are taking in so much aid). Naturally, the expectation is that the pain will now trickle up to the multinationals. Nowhere in the cited material, however, does Vestager say "Apple must repay".
This will surely be another "Apple is doomed" thread for a while now, because there is no way this will be resolved quickly. It is, however, interesting to note that this is about $1 billion per year for the time period in question (2003-2014). Not particularly damaging to Apple. And even taken all at once, it is 2.5-3% of Apple's market cap. This, too, shall pass.
Detriment to all? Hahaha don't make me laugh, man kind invented money and classes and society, man kind invented the idea some people have a right to blow their noses with 100 dollar bills whilst others do not have a right to water, man kind decided richer nations can have medical treatment on hand anytime, whilst other country's can have death and disease that can be easily cured with treatment that they don't have.
As a species man kind is incredibly selfish and does nothing for anyone else but themselves and it would be good for it all to fall apart!
That'll never happen as the american political system is owed by big corps protecting the loopholes. It's not much different in the rest of the world but the US is the very pinnacle of a commercial political system. The EU is a very weird system that is fair and actually works, they have managed to remove a significant political element to make decisions that are morally right and fair. The UK didn't like that and voted to leave because it's possibly even more corrupt than the USA.
Irish finance minister Michael Noonan has said he will appeal to ensure that he is not forced to accept a $13billion payout from the richest corporation on the planet.
This was him back in 2014, telling poor people to "sew up your pockets" when they complained about crippling austerity measures leaving them destitute:
This was him back in 2014, telling poor people to "sew up your pockets" when they complained about crippling austerity measures leaving them destitute:
Sure explain to me how I can go from 40% to 0.005% and got a point .... Sooner or later there will be a knock on the door ...
dont bother....you will never find fault with the mothership
Excellent news. No company big or small should be able to dodge taxes. It's sobering to read that the penalty Apple may have to pay will fund the Irish health service for an entire year. Just think of that for a second or two. Think of all the lives that money will save. Tax evasion isn't a victimless crime.
That leaves Apple completely obeying to law, but being forced to pony up billions. That makes no sense, and will be overturned.