Apple must stop updating OS X annually!!!

[HatMine]

Did you ever make prolonged and in-depth use of any earlier operating system on anyone else's Mac?

With respect: if you lack those experiences, then you can not properly appreciate the perspectives of people whose judgements of Yosemite and later are based, in part, on those experiences.

My first Mac ran Yosemite but I had a Hackintosh that ran Mavericks. Also, I believe I have "touched" Mountain Lion and emulated Snow Leopard. So the first OS X I actually used was Mavericks.

Regarding your last statement; I have used Windows since Windows 95, so I still have a lot of experience with computers and desktop OS:es. So although I don't have much experience with OS X, I still know a good OS when I see one. But like I said, I am not saying that people have no right to complain about the direction in which OS X is headed. All I am saying is that there are people like me who just arrived and who like the current versions of the OS. Would I have felt this way if I was a long time user of OS X? We will never know. But as a long time user of Windows, I can't say that I am disappointed.

 

[grahamperrin]

… a Hackintosh that ran Mavericks. Also, I believe I have "touched" Mountain Lion and emulated Snow Leopard. So the first OS X I actually used was Mavericks.

… Windows since Windows 95 …

Great, thanks for clarifying.

From my subscriptions, in chronological order, a few topics that may be of interest:

• Is it just me or Maverick(s) Sucks?
• Coming from the dark side (Windows user, first time Mac buyer)...
• List all of the operating systems you have used! – I'm at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20230685
• Non OS X Alternatives to OS X Yosemite
• Microsoft Launches Site to Lure MacBook Switchers to Surface Pro 3 – despite the somewhat provocative title, I recall some unusually intelligent discussion in this topic, not too many knee-jerks … as MacRumors Forums veteran @jouster described it, an honest to goodness Mac vs PC thread!
  
• Apple Made Me Buy a Windows HP Workstation
• Moving over to the Windows side

 

[HatMine]

Great, thanks for clarifying.

From my subscriptions, in chronological order, a few topics that may be of interest:

• Is it just me or Maverick(s) Sucks?
• Coming from the dark side (Windows user, first time Mac buyer)...
• List all of the operating systems you have used! – I'm at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20230685
• Non OS X Alternatives to OS X Yosemite
• Microsoft Launches Site to Lure MacBook Switchers to Surface Pro 3 – despite the somewhat provocative title, I recall some unusually intelligent discussion in this topic, not too many knee-jerks … as MacRumors Forums veteran @jouster described it, an honest to goodness Mac vs PC thread!
  
• Apple Made Me Buy a Windows HP Workstation
• Moving over to the Windows side

Thank you, I will take a look

 

[Queen6]

Note: This is regarding the end product and the changes in development made over the past decade that have played a role in releasing a more solid core OS, not about "Sierra" or using an OS still in beta.

Been an OS X developer for well over a decade and I strongly dislike Apple's decision to move OS X to an annual release cycle to match iOS. Bertrand Serlet was lead engineer for OS X 10.4-10.6 and delivered the most solid OS X builds to date. Beta's were released ~bi-weekly and had to be downloaded and installed on a clean drive in order to test and debug the OS without third party interference over a 1 1/2 - 2 year period.

Craig Federighi took over with 10.7 and OS X builds moved to an annual cycle with beta's (DP's) installed over DP's. Debugging and proper testing became a nightmare which often resulted in lesser quality releases. Stories from former OS X engineers should make most OS X users concerned. Third party developers should be handling that workload, Apple engineers should be focusing on the core OS.

I'd gladly pay $129 for a solid release on my Mac's than rushed releases riddled with open bugs from three OS's ago. I have a new Mac Pro6,1 running Sierra and El Capitan and a 2012 classic Mac Pro running 10.6, interestingly enough Snow Leopard runs circles around any OS X I've had on my new Mac Pro (a 12-Core system vs. 6-Core).

Personally I am with the OP, quality of OS X has significantly diminished since the introduction of the annual update. I would happily pay for a solid release of the desktop OS, also one that was more biased towards productivity, not following trends that generally only serve to reduce readabiity and usability of the OS.

Yosemite, was a concern, El Capitan a disaster, Sierra waits to be seen. For me I need the OS to be solid at the point of release, not taking best part of the annual cycle to fix if at all...

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

I would happily pay for a solid release of the desktop OS, also one that was more biased towards productivity, not following trends

That's the rub. Apple started this free OS/Annual update saying how much they're making it more productive, but they seem to be following trends that capture the consumer's attention. I'm thinking of the gutting of the iWork suite, and their promise to make it better. I've given up on it, but AFAIK, it is still a shell of its former self. Then its Apple's fairly newish behavior of just abandoning an app and making something completely different (and less feature rich), such as Aperture and iPhoto -> Photos.

 

[Queen6]

That's the rub. Apple started this free OS/Annual update saying how much they're making it more productive, but they seem to be following trends that capture the consumer's attention. I'm thinking of the gutting of the iWork suite, and their promise to make it better. I've given up on it, but AFAIK, it is still a shell of its former self. Then its Apple's fairly newish behavior of just abandoning an app and making something completely different (and less feature rich), such as Aperture and iPhoto -> Photos.

Sadly I have to agree, Apple has long since drawn the line in the sand, Apple is a provider of consumer electronics little else. For those that need more (IMHO) Apple is no longer relevant for many reasons, mostly the blatant disregard for the professional community.

Should Apple want to regain confidence, they need to step up and deliver, consistently not just when the press is negative, or when some exec has a whim and a point to prove. Apple also needs to get back to industrial design, putting it`s customers needs & usability first not thinnest in class...

Nor do I perceive as OS X being free, given the additional cost of an Apple PC, which makes the poor quality control of the OS that much more frustrating.

Q-6

 

[gigapocket1]

Just read a few of the first comments.. It's not fair to compare apple now to how it was when Steve came back and brought focus..
Apple is extremely focused now. And nothing they do is lacking.. People say the apple watch is a failure but that's only a failure when you compare it to the iPhone.. Theirs not a single product category that they aren't succeeding in. Including computers, even with year old products on the market!! If apple didn't keep pushing themselves. Don't keep evolving their software and pushing their limits. Then they will end up like Nokia or HP. I prefer the updates every year. I prefer the new features. People just don't like change... Things could always be better. But if you wait on software and hardware to be perfect.. Then apple or anybody else would never release anything

 

[32828870]

Just read a few of the first comments.. It's not fair to compare apple now to how it was when Steve came back and brought focus...

Perhaps, but sometimes a picture (or more) is worth a thousand words:

Apple 1990's (John Sculley), Apple late 90's - 2010 (Steve Jobs' return), Apple Present (Tim Cook). I uploaded the pics to [hopefully] match the timeline. See the trend?

 

[grahamperrin]

People just don't like change.

For Mac OS X, I never agree with that generalisation.

If you take time to engage with the person, to tease out the detail of what's disliked, it's almost never change per se.

 

[kissmo]

I personally would prefer having longer release cycles but it's not my company.
In the same time I do realize that every time Apple announces a new OS I am always ears and eyes wide open.

Yes I don't feel that the OS advanced that much since Mountain Lion (maybe the redesign of the interface).
In the end, I always install everything on day one and I will always be a sucker for doing this.

Doesn't matter what we think. What Apple thinks is what's going to be.

I don't like this new Flat interface neither in iOS or OS X. I feel it's too flat and pokemon colors.... But I am still using it thought it really strains my eyes - maybe I am getting old....

My biggest disappointment is that Apple killed Aperture and screwed a bit the iWork package. I think they were doing such a great job at those typical own designed apps and I miss them.

They should have kept a little more focus there but it's their call.

People can say what they want, but it's clearly visible that Steve's eyes, hands and voice are missing. Apple as we know it under Steve is no more so this is the new direction they are heading towards.

 

[leman]

I think this topic should be renamed into StarkerMann+grahamperrin+Ebenezum vs. the progressive humanity

Just joking of course, but its very obvious that we have a clear division into two camps. From my perspective, OS X has massively improved over these years and I have difficulties understanding how anyone can see it differently. On the other hand, people who are critical of the changes appear to have established workflows and expectancies (e.g. in regards to certain 'pro' apps etc.).

 

[Queen6]

I think this topic should be renamed into StarkerMann+grahamperrin+Ebenezum vs. the progressive humanity

Just joking of course, but its very obvious that we have a clear division into two camps. From my perspective, OS X has massively improved over these years and I have difficulties understanding how anyone can see it differently. On the other hand, people who are critical of the changes appear to have established workflows and expectancies (e.g. in regards to certain 'pro' apps etc.).

You can add me to the list, OS X has gained significant functionality, however at the cost of reliability & stability IMHO. I don't perceive that people don't want advancement, however they do want it to be measured & balanced. From my own observation professional & recreation usage OS X has diminished significantly since the 12 month cycle was introduced.

Apple`s user base has also changed significantly, so role on the emoji`s, equally this systems replacement is on the desk, nor is it a Mac, that one`s on Apple....

Q-6

 

[grahamperrin]

… From my perspective, OS X has massively improved over these years and I have difficulties understanding how anyone can see it differently. On the other hand, people who are critical of the changes appear to have established workflows and expectancies (e.g. in regards to certain 'pro' apps etc.). …

I also see massive improvements and in most ways, I'm very receptive to change. Personally: changes from iOS to Android, from OS X to TrueOS Desktop (ongoing), from KDE Plasma 4 on PC-BSD to Plasma 5 in Kubuntu (recent but temporary), and so on. Less personally: it's extremely rare for me to object to changes in the systems that I find myself supporting for other people (one notable exception: the change of Windows from 7 to 8, and of course I'm not alone in perceiving 8 to be an extraordinarily user-hostile mistake).

Generally: if I use an application that's intended for Mac OS X, I expect that software to be user friendly; to respond normally to the actions of a Mac user. That's sometimes an almost solitary expectation, and I don't mind going it alone but (as leman knows) it frustrated me when, in 2014, I perceived Apple to be going against its own grain. Splinters, ouch. Nowadays I'm very interested in, but not bothered by, GUI/human interface blunders that affect users of Mac OS X.

PS the mentions of other operating systems, above, are not intended to take discussion off topic from release cycles for OS X. Those others are mentioned only to show that I have no dislike of change.​

 

[294307]

I too am concerned about the annual release cycle Apple are going with now, but I can't really say I have been negatively affected by that yet because El Capitan and even Yosemite have been quite stable for me. Over the last several years of using the two most recent versions of Mac OS X, I have certainly noticed a fair share of small bugs which can irritate and perhaps more so because I think Apple customers find it less tolerable for Apple to make mistakes versus other companies. However, Apple creates the high standard that we should expect from them and deserves no less than to be kept to it, and given sharp feedback when they fail. However as a professional user I can't fault the general stability of the operating system. It works well. I do miss the Aqua/Metallic look of older versions of Mac OS X though.

I personally don't upgrade to a new version of Mac OS X straight away - I wait at least a month or two to see how it's doing and in the hope of a point release to fix some bugs that will undoubtedly be present in the RTM.

 

[T909]

I do agree with you that Apple must stop updating OS X annually.
I wish there were more caps between the release dates. They could've improved Lion a lot (giving it Mountain Lion features with updates and Mavericks features as well)
If I was responsible for OS X development then Mac OS X would have had Siri since Lion. It was the first question that popped into my mind when I used Lion for the first time.

Also, many people are switching to PC because Windows tends to get security updates much longer (and apps are supported way longer) than on OS X.

Try running Chrome on Vista (the latest) and try running Chrome on Leopard…nope.

 

[Mikael H]

I do agree with you that Apple must stop updating OS X annually.
I wish there were more caps between the release dates. They could've improved Lion a lot (giving it Mountain Lion features with updates and Mavericks features as well)
If I was responsible for OS X development then Mac OS X would have had Siri since Lion. It was the first question that popped into my mind when I used Lion for the first time.

Also, many people are switching to PC because Windows tends to get security updates much longer (and apps are supported way longer) than on OS X.

Try running Chrome on Vista (the latest) and try running Chrome on Leopard…nope.

Re Siri on OS X:
What I like about Apple is their overall tendency to not add features until they can be pulled off brilliantly. That's what you see time and time again: A company adds feature X and announces it to the world, but in practice the feature turns out to be flaky or badly implemented in some important way. Traditionally, and generally speaking, Apple will add the same feature a while later, but their implementation usually really works without breaking the overall flow - it becomes something that slightly enhances some aspect of your daily work but you don't really notice until you don't have it or until you're faced with one of the worse implementations of the same feature.
Either they had more pressing features to implement first before prioritizing Siri on macOS, or Siri simply wasn't good enough for desktop use yet. The latter would naturally also be the direct result of the former.

Re supporting apps and OSes for a long time:
This is a double-edged sword. Do we really want Apple to spend a considerable amount of their resources on maintaining parallel platform support for hardware (and for that matter for software libraries) that turned out to be evolutionary dead ends? Isn't it better to say "Hey, sorry, at that time we were in the middle of a transition phase, and mistakes were made. You may continue using that hardware at the latest software level it supports, but if you need later features you really should get yourself a newer machine."
From an Internet security standpoint, that creates a problem, but you always have the choice to mitigate such issues by either following good security practices when connected to the Internet, or by air gapping the machine from the Internet.
(An interesting thing to note, is that both important institutions in the Linux community and Microsoft have joined Apple in gradually limiting their support for 32-bit i386 architectures since a good while back).

Yes, having a release schedule decided on for economical rather than technical reasons risks causing instability in early versions of the new operating systems. The last couple of upgrades were not at all flawless for me. I have good backups and can roll back when stuff hits the fan, but since Apple began their scheduled releases, I've had lingering issues for between one and three months after each upgrade. That's not a good track record - it means that at least some users actually spend between 10 and 25 percent of the release cycle in a larger or smaller degree of frustration. It's still way better than my experience with early adopting operating system versions from some other vendors, but it's a testament to the actual problem Apple is facing now that they have to make their investors happy on cue each successive fall season.

 

[oldmacs]

My experience the last couple of days is a good reason why not. I did a clean install of 10.11 3 weeks ago, after a number of issues, which was understandable as that install an upgraded install from Yosemite done mid 2015.

A couple of days ago, relatively large TIFF started weirdly, one page came up corrupted and every time i opened the file it would crash preview, despite it opening fine on other machines. Then quick look started freezing up looking through folders of images, for no reason whatever. Now Spotlight stopped working and has been re-indexing for 2 days. It is hugely frustrating.

Not only that but Safari is having all sorts of endless issues. Safari refuses to play netflix now, even though Chrome manages it fine, and other machines with safari also manage it fine. Safari is having more and more issues that require chrome.

its actually quite strange, as this is what happened with Yosemite as well - I originally updated to Yosemite over an existing (buggy) install of Mavericks, and was very happy with that install for ages, until I did a clean install once I got an SSD mid 2015. That clean install of Yosemite was buggy and nasty very quickly, and improved out of site when I installed El Capitan. Makes no sense to me, clean installs should be the most reliable.


[doublepost=1471593497][/doublepost]

What I like about Apple is their overall tendency to not add features until they can be pulled off brilliantly.

Yet 2 years on, Handoff and Airdrop are still flawed beyond belief...

Apple used to sometimes have family unreliable releases (Leopard I'm looking at you), but we no longer get the super solid releases, like 10.4.11 (Solid as a rock) or 10.6.8.

I consistently seem to have the most issues with the later .x versions of Operating Systems, rather than the initial release which is weird.

 

[DarkExistence]

I really felt that OS X become less stable compare to Mavericks and Mountain lion. Let me ask this question: Why Apple updating OS X annually? It's too fast to update OS X every year that they don't fix bugs and issues within a year. My Mac crashed randomly and is unstable after Yosemite and El Capitan. If they can't fix these problems within a year, why don't they update OS every 2~3 yrs? This is a serious problem. I have Adobe programs that I'm using for my major and I really hate to update OS X annually but I have to since Adobe support new features in newer version. Apple forcing users and other developer a lot to update new version and this will make them tire and angry. Apps compatibility, developing apps for newer version, and etc. If Apple can't afford to build OS X perfectly, then they must stop this madness. OS X is seriously unstable than before. Im really seek of this terrible issue on OS X.

Eh nearly every os is done annually. Android , ios, macos etc

 

[maflynn]

Eh nearly every os is done annually. Android , ios, macos etc

At this point annual updates are the norm, not the exception. Still, I think its not the right thing to do, but its not up to me

 

[tjwilliams25]

The thing I think a lot of people are forgetting is Apple is a much different company now from what it used to be. It really isn't fair to compare products developed by smaller teams for longer times with less features than now. That's like saying the original iPhone is the most solid iPhone that Apple made compared to the 6s. Well, of course it is, it didn't have an App Store or any of the features that we currently take for granted. The same goes for macOS: the versions may look the same cosmetically, but they are much different beasts underneath with much more complex frameworks. Unfortunately, the way that the new systems are built isn't optimized to how the older versions were, so there are going to be issues. I've been having issues with El Cap on my iMac since release, but not my new MacBook, and the only difference is I've used a backup on the iMac. So, some things may be buggy due to residual files from previous versions, at least in my experience. None of that has stopped me from being an avid Apple fan. The only thing I can say is that Apple has definitely shifted focus to the general market and hasn't really done much for pros, especially software-wise.

 

[maflynn]

The thing I think a lot of people are forgetting is Apple is a much different company now

Yup, its been mentioned in the thread,
Either because Cook feels like dedicating more resources to the iPhone, or that the we are in a Post PC era, or that they make more money on the iPhone etc.

I don't think there's one answer, but I do agree, apple is focusing more on other sectors, and the work they do on OS X (er umm macOS) is geared to bringing it closer to the iPhone.

 

[grahamperrin]

Brilliance

Re Siri on OS X:
What I like about Apple is their overall tendency to not add features until they can be pulled off brilliantly. That's what you see time and time again: …

The good old days: I'd sense that Apple had envisaged something exquisite. Whilst the end result was never perfect (that's the nature of software), there were exquisite touches in all the right places.

Nowadays: I do see brilliance woven throughout the operating system, but there are fewer touches of exquisiteness. Instead of exquisite, brilliant stitching, it's sometimes as if Wundaweb and Ronco Buttoneer will be good enough for Apple customers.

In fairness to Apple, the vast majority of customers will never notice, or care about, the ways in which things are finished and held together. But to me, the decline in finishing touches is a sign that Apple has lost, is losing, something that's … hard to define, but somehow defined the company. I suppose, that decline is to be expected in areas where organisational memory is lost. Hey ho.

Siri: I can't comment (never used it, or anything like it).

 

[sibcc]

I personally would prefer having longer release cycles but it's not my company.
In the same time I do realize that every time Apple announces a new OS I am always ears and eyes wide open.

Yes I don't feel that the OS advanced that much since Mountain Lion (maybe the redesign of the interface).
In the end, I always install everything on day one and I will always be a sucker for doing this.

Doesn't matter what we think. What Apple thinks is what's going to be.

I don't like this new Flat interface neither in iOS or OS X. I feel it's too flat and pokemon colors.... But I am still using it thought it really strains my eyes - maybe I am getting old....

My biggest disappointment is that Apple killed Aperture and screwed a bit the iWork package. I think they were doing such a great job at those typical own designed apps and I miss them.

They should have kept a little more focus there but it's their call.

People can say what they want, but it's clearly visible that Steve's eyes, hands and voice are missing. Apple as we know it under Steve is no more so this is the new direction they are heading towards.

I concur with your post; however, the consumer always has a choice and it's incumbent upon Apple to respect their consumer. If they don't, then they'll eventually be back where they were pre-Jobs' return. IMHO, Cook and Ive will destroy Apple due to their arrogance and IMHO the only question is how long it will take. Sadly, the quality and craftsmanship and elegance have given way to a design for design sake mantra; thus, the deterioration of a once well though out user interface and the concomitant enjoyment of the experience.

 

[kissmo]

I concur with your post; however, the consumer always has a choice and it's incumbent upon Apple to respect their consumer. If they don't, then they'll eventually be back where they were pre-Jobs' return. IMHO, Cook and Ive will destroy Apple due to their arrogance and IMHO the only question is how long it will take. Sadly, the quality and craftsmanship and elegance have given way to a design for design sake mantra; thus, the deterioration of a once well though out user interface and the concomitant enjoyment of the experience.

Yep. Agreeing 100%

 

[sibcc]

I just discovered that Apple's photos.app is now hanging when you try to change music or duration since I upgraded to 10.11.6. This is starting to feel like the old MS days. BTW, who was the idiot that decided it was a good idea to name the application 'Photos." This causes problem when searching for information because of the generic nature of the word "photos." I just popped into my Mavericks machine and the contrast to El Capitan is rather telling—one is readable and has a beautiful interface complete with nice icons and the other is a child's toy. Grand idea, we now have computing and graphics power and they revert back to elementary flat user interfaces.

Why would anyone vote for a yearly upgrade cycle?