Apple needs to stop being so reliant on the menu bar for non-pro apps

[WilliApple]

Spoiler: Chat GPT Summary

I have personally seen this be a problem for the average user who uses macOS.


Apple needs to stop being so reliant on the menu bar for apps created from Mac Catalyst technology and other stock macOS apps. Inconsistency between the iPadOS and macOS versions of the same apps makes them harder to use and confusing for users. This could be fixed by having the actions in both places, the menu bar AND inside the app. The menu bar should mainly be reserved for pro apps. This would make macOS more user-friendly for former iPadOS, and Windows users, and average macOS users.

Apple needs to stop being so reliant on the menu bar.

HEAR ME OUT.​

The Menu Bar should be relied on for Pro apps, like Word, Pages, Keynote, Final Cut, Logic, but it should not be incorporated for apps made from iPadOS. It makes things a lot less consistent and Harder to use.

A lot of apps that also appear on iPhone and iPad (Messages, Safari, Weather, Freeform) (Which don't have a Menu Bar) are very easy to use. Apple moving these to the menu bar is a pretty bad move and makes macOS less user friendly than iPadOS.

Example 1 - Freeform:​

I use Freeform a lot on my iPad, and I have the grid off,
The way you turn that off is you have to click on the name, then press "Hide Grid"

Now let's look at macOS:
Clicking on the name only renames it.
The other options are hidden somewhere else:

THE MENU BAR.

Freeform (a brand new app) that uses the Mac Catalyst technology should not suffer from this inconsistency. It is based on an iPad app, and changing stuff to use the Menu Bar rather than its original location may make users think that the feature does not exist if they first used the app on their iPad or iPhone.

Now I am not saying that Apple should remove the Menu Bar, but they can keep the actions in the menu bar AND have the actions where they are on iPadOS. That is what would make the most sense.

Example 2 - Weather:​

Weather is also based on Mac Catlyst technology and suffers from the same inconsistency and relying on the Menu Bar on the macOS version.

You can see that on iPadOS, there is a ... button to change from Celcius to Fahrenheit.
On macOS, you need to go to the menu bar to change from Celcius to Fahrenheit.

It would make a lot more sense to use the iPad layout along with the Menu Bar to make apps a lot more user-friendly for the average user.

Example 3 - Music:​

Well, it gets even worse with apps not based on Mac Catalyst.

The music app on iPadOS to get to the full-screen player requires 1 tap
On macOS, I used to think that the full-screen player was nonexistent on macOS until I discovered it was in the Menu Bar. (Window > Full Screen Player)

This gets even worse for Windows users who use the Apple Music web client, and switches to macOS.
On the web client, you have a full-screen button right there, and it is super easy to enter the full screen player from there:

On macOS, this button just isn't present despite the Apple Music web player trying to imitate the macOS version:

But what if a new macOS user (used to this web app and also iOS/iPadOS) looks for the full-screen player on macOS?

By the way, this is what I am talking about by Full Screen player:

Well, they may think it is nonexistent until they look at the menu bar.

I personally think the web client is a better EXPERIENCE than the native macOS app.
Same with Spotify, Spotify is a great example of using both the menu bar and inside the app.

What do I want Apple to do?
Well, I want Apple to make the apps mentioned above identical to the iPadOS version to fix consistency. The new apps that are based off the iPad version should not be this different...

Now I am not saying Apple should completely ditch the menu bar obviously because this would cause a lot of compatibility issues for apps, and for pro apps, the menu bar makes sense.

I just want macOS to be a lot more accessible for iPadOS and Windows users.

I also know a lot of average macOS users who never TOUCH the Menu bar. This would make macOS easier to use.

The menu bar should be reserved for pro-apps, the stock macOS apps that you would see on iPhone doesn't make sense for the menu bar to be used.

Bonus example - Safari:​

Just imagine if this was the default view in Safari, and had to use the Menu bar to make a new tab.

Let me know what you think about this inconsistency.

 

[usagora]

I don't see what the big deal is. They are two separate operating systems, not to mention one is touch-based and the other isn't. You can also easily create keyboard shortcuts for any menu bar commands for apps on macOS by going to System Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts... > App Shortcuts. Of course, some keyboard shortcuts are already defined (like shift-command-F for Full Screen Player, as shown in your last screenshot. I use the menu bar all the time, but you can also automatically hide it by going to System Settings > Desktop & Dock > Automatically hide and show the menu bar [Always, On Desktop Only, In Full Screen Only, Never].

 

[GMShadow]

Apple needs to ditch the menu bar.
HEAR ME OUT.

Well, I want them to put everything that is in the Menu bar and make it consistent between iPadOS and macOS.

Now I am not saying Apple should completely ditch the menu bar obviously because this would cause a lot of compatibility issues for apps.
I just want macOS to be a lot more accessible for iPadOS and Windows users.

I also know a lot of average macOS users who never TOUCH the Menu bar.

The menu bar should be reserved for desktop software, most apps that apple makes aren’t 100% desktop software.

Let me know what you think about this inconsistency.

I want macOS to stay macOS. The iPad is the way it is for touch targets.

I don't care about Windows or iPad users.


I also find it amusing that your proposed 'fix' for 'inconsistency' is to make the Mac inconsistent.

 

[maflynn]

I like macOS being unique and see no reason to overhaul the UI in such a manner.

 

[adrianlondon]

I completely agree. Apart from the fact I think the iPad should be made to look like MacOS instead.

(I don't own an iPad 😁)

 

[WilliApple]

I like macOS being unique and see no reason to overhaul the UI in such a manner.

I want macOS to stay macOS. The iPad is the way it is for touch targets.

They are two separate operating systems, not to mention one is touch-based and the other isn't.

I may understand that you may be forever Mac users, but this is a bad user experience for those who are coming from an iPad or even Windows. Windows is very accessible with tabbed file explorer windows, while with macOS, it isn't so accessible.

You can also easily create keyboard shortcuts for any menu bar commands for apps on macOS by going to System Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts... > App Shortcuts.

This doesn't fix anything tbh.
I want Apple to add it inside the Windows in addition to the Menu bar. Apple is comfortable (sort of) doing this with Safari. Imagine if the New Tab button was not added to the Safari Window, and you needed to open it with the Menu Bar...

 

[galad]

No they don't.

 

[MBAir2010]

ummm Menu bar.....menu bar....menu bar?
and I have 3 MacBooks, Mac mini and a partridge in a palm tree.

(is that the top bar that fades and appears when I hover?

 

[GMShadow]

I may understand that you may be forever Mac users, but this is a bad user experience for those who are coming from an iPad or even Windows.

Allow me to repeat in gif form.

 

[antiprotest]

The menu bar is important and useful. Apple needs to double and triple down on the menu bar.

Whenever someone new or not so new to Mac asks me "How do I..." -- before they even finish, I'd say, "Have you checked the text menu?" (that's what I call it), and then there it is, exactly what they were looking for EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. unless the app doesn't have that feature at all. They can use the feature even if they do not remember the keyboard shortcut to it. They can use the feature even if there is no button for it. They can discover features that they never knew existed.

You say imagine someone coming from iPad and Windows? Imagine coming from Mac to the iPad and Windows. If anything, they can add the menu bar to the iPad. As it is, some settings are in the Settings app and some settings are in the apps themselves. And I don't want something like the ribbon in Windows. Windows ditched the menu bar for the cursed ribbons and everything is super ugly and messy, and hard to find and hard to use.

 

[usagora]

I may understand that you may be forever Mac users, but this is a bad user experience for those who are coming from an iPad or even Windows. Windows is very accessible with tabbed file explorer windows, while with macOS, it isn't so accessible.

Actually, I use both macOS and Windows every day. I fail to comprehend in any conceivable universe how macOS having a menu bar is a "bad experience." macOS Finder also has tabbed windows (press command-t to add new tab or use the + button to the right of the current tab), so I'm not sure what you're talking about, nor what that has to do with the macOS menu bar, quite frankly.

 

[jagolden]

“…but this is a bad user experience for those who are…”

This is simply your opinion. Every car has a dashboard, but you might have noticed the physical controls and electronic menu controls are laid out differently not just on each car, bet even on different model years. Same thing here. It’s a non starter.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Let's definitely not ditch the Menu Bar

 

[AgeOfSpiracles]

macOS Finder also has tabbed windows (press command-t to add new tab or use the + button to the right of the current tab)

I think someone learned something today!

 

[usagora]

This doesn't fix anything tbh.
I want Apple to add it inside the Windows in addition to the Menu bar. Apple is comfortable (sort of) doing this with Safari. Imagine if the New Tab button was not added to the Safari Window, and you needed to open it with the Menu Bar...

Sorry, I missed this earlier. I'm not following you. Even if the New Tab function in Safari were only available in the menu bar, then you could simply assign a keyboard shortcut to it, which is just as easy (if not easier) than clicking on a button in the Safari window.

 

[maflynn]

I may understand that you may be forever Mac users

First rule of fight club - know your audience

I am a big windows user, and I've used Linux for a while as well. So coming in from experience from other operating systems, macOS is unique and very useful.

I hate to the idea of homogenizing an OS and making it like every other operating system

 

[boss.king]

Hard pass. Let’s not ruin MacOS for the sake of coddling iPad users.

 

[Jumpthesnark]

The Mac OS has lots of functionality that is missing from iPad OS, including but not limited to keyboard shortcuts as @usagora and others have mentioned, because it's designed for keyboard-and-mouse input and not a touchscreen.

We don't need to remove functionality just because some people are familiar with iPad OS, or migrating from Windows.

 

[macsound1]

What's amazing about the Menubar is once you find something, it'll always be in the same place, no matter the app (if it's a good Mac App)
On iPad, those features wander all over the place. Where's the hamburger button, or do I press and hold, or is it only available if I'm in landscape mode?

 

[stevec618]

This gets even worse for Windows users who use the Apple Music web client, and switches to macOS.
On the web client, you hover over the lyrics and click on the full-screen button:

But what if a new macOS user looks for the full-screen player on macOS?
Well, they may think it is nonexistent until they look at the menu bar.

As you can with most Mac apps, clicking the third dot takes you into fullscreen mode without ever having to visit the menu bar. A CONSISTENT behaviour across MacOS.

Every day's a school day, I guess.

 

[Analog Kid]

Worthwhile thread-- most of us disagree with the stated position, but it's good to think about how things can be made better. And I'm glad to not be talking about the usual nonsense.

I think the biggest issue is that the examples used for eliminating the menu bar don't scale. For little utilities like weather, Freeform and even Music, there's pretty limited functionality. I think Affinity Photo did a commendable job with their iPad app, but the UI still feels compromised by needing to hunt for things that ordinarily would be listed out and always visible at the top of a larger screen. Concepts is another. Even Pages is harder for me to use on an iPad even with a keyboard attached, just because it's a hunt for features.

Every app does it differently, the more features you want to provide the harder it is, and it's never really clear the feature exists so you're not sure how hard to look before giving up.

 

[Basic75]

I am a big windows user, and I've used Linux for a while as well. So coming in from experience from other operating systems, macOS is unique and very useful.

And if you come from the Amiga the macOS menu bar feels relatively familiar. Anybody here remember the Amiga?

 

[code-m]

I want macOS to stay macOS. The iPad is the way it is for touch targets.

I don't care about Windows or iPad users.


I also find it amusing that your proposed 'fix' for 'inconsistency' is to make the Mac inconsistent.

Why can’t it just be like DOS?, so intuitive, simple, less cpu resources, etc etc /s 😝

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

The macOS vs iPadOS war rages on I see

Also, getting rid of the menu bar is a horrible idea. It exists for a reason and has been around since the original Macintosh. Removing the menu bar would break literally every app as every app uses it.

 

[code-m]

The Mac OS has lots of functionality that is missing from iPad OS, including but not limited to keyboard shortcuts as @usagora and others have mentioned, because it's designed for keyboard-and-mouse input and not a touchscreen.

We don't need to remove functionality just because some people are familiar with iPad OS, or migrating from Windows.

These same users then complain that it needs more functionality, there is no pleasing anyone. Maybe Apple should make a simple mode, advance and expert that way it covers all bases and we won’t have to endure these ridiculous threads.