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I may understand that you may be forever Mac users, but this is a bad user experience for those who are coming from an iPad or even Windows. Windows is very accessible with tabbed file explorer windows, while with macOS, it isn't so accessible.


This doesn't fix anything tbh.
I want Apple to add it inside the Windows in addition to the Menu bar. Apple is comfortable (sort of) doing this with Safari. Imagine if the New Tab button was not added to the Safari Window, and you needed to open it with the Menu Bar...
You're not coming from an iPad (iPadOS) to an iPad. The Freeform app was developed for iOS devices mostly in mind and just happens to be on macOS. You can tell... it just works better on iPad, so probably best to just keep using it there. Mac is macOS. PLEASE LEAVE IT ALONE! :) I'm not the only one who feels this way.
 
Wasn't this the problem when Mac OS X was created? All the NeXTStep people wanted their menus in the window. They dreaded the idea of only having one menu bar. The Omni Group did a sensational job of migrating to Mac OS X while others didn't do so well.

I appreciate having multiple menus available at once and not having to flip between applications to see the options on occasion. Still, it's hardly a disaster to be familiar with the software I'm using.

If Apple's teams didn't talk to each other to make the best interfaces for interoperability, why should someone re-design the operating systems?
 
Consistency is vital in the user experience. The menu bar is designed for a mouse/ trackpad and should have all the commands required to perform the user's actions.

The touch interface in the iPad is designed for touch (and should be more skeuomorphic!). They are two separate machines, with two separate ways of interacting.
 
These same users then complain that it needs more functionality, there is no pleasing anyone. Maybe Apple should make a simple mode, advance and expert that way it covers all bases and we won’t have to endure these ridiculous threads.
I know in the Mac OS 8 days, there was an option called "simple finder". But I think that only applies to the Finder, and not the applications.
 
LOL so Mac has all the features neatly organized always in one place *and* they are even searchable. on iOS/iPadOS every app is different and you have look for buttons with three dots, arrows and so on. lot of guess work.

you didn’t know miniplayer exists in the mac app? think of menu bar as a list of features that you can check out when you work with a new app, plus it’s searchable…😳

Mac Menu Bar is one of the things I miss most on Windows, its implementation of it is trash

it also allows the interface to be cleaner without requiring guess work
 
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I don't see what the big deal is. They are two separate operating systems, not to mention one is touch-based and the other isn't. You can also easily create keyboard shortcuts for any menu bar commands for apps on macOS by going to System Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts... > App Shortcuts. Of course, some keyboard shortcuts are already defined (like shift-command-F for Full Screen Player, as shown in your last screenshot. I use the menu bar all the time, but you can also automatically hide it by going to System Settings > Desktop & Dock > Automatically hide and show the menu bar [Always, On Desktop Only, In Full Screen Only, Never].
So the fix for a GUI flaw is keyboard shortcuts? Tell me again why we have GUI.

The menu bar is inconveniently far away from the window of the app, especially on large screens so no it is not always a good solution. My favourite is content dependent menus triggered via right click. One of Windows better inventions.
 
Does anyone know the history of why Windows has a menu per window and Mac has one globally? Was it just Microsoft wanting (or needing) to be different from MacOS, or was there a UX theory involved?
I give it a go:

Someone explained that Windows is/was originally app centred while MacOS is/was document centred. Hence the app belonged to the window in Windows. So when you close the window, the app also closes and is ejected from RAM. MacOS work differently: close the window and then the document closes while the app still remains load in RAM. Given this, it is then logical (according to me) that the menu is placed where they are in the respective OS. Then they started borrowing features from each other...
 
The macOS vs iPadOS war rages on I see

Also, getting rid of the menu bar is a horrible idea. It exists for a reason and has been around since the original Macintosh. Removing the menu bar would break literally every app as every app uses it.
Also well known to all the former Amiga and Atari ST/TT users.
Menu bar doing its tasks since 1984. Now with a notch (tm).
Leave it alone.
 
So the fix for a GUI flaw is keyboard shortcuts? Tell me again why we have GUI.

The menu bar is inconveniently far away from the window of the app, especially on large screens so no it is not always a good solution. My favourite is content dependent menus triggered via right click. One of Windows better inventions.

There is no "flaw" with it. I seriously have no clue what you or the OP are complaining about 🤷🏼‍♂️ And there are content-dependent menus in macOS. If I right-click on a picture in a PowerPoint presentation in PowerPoint for macOS, for example, I get the "Change Picture" command in the context menu. I get similar content-specific options in Keynote ("Replace Image", "Align Objects," etc.). And I use keyboard shortcuts all the time in both macOS and Windows. If you don't, then you're seriously slowing down your workflow in many instances.

I'm getting the feeling that you and the OP have either never actually used macOS or have used it very little, since you both seem unaware of some basic functionalities of it.
 
I often wish the menu bar was on iPadOS. The popup you get if you hold the command or fn key is pretty close, but there’s no way to get it without a keyboard.
 
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Well the menu bar needs to be here to fill the gap between the notch and to create a symmetric look



…….Unless dynamic island comes to the Mac
 
For some reason this thread reminded me of the system 7/Mac OS 8 ‘At Ease’ mode. I had a lot of fondness for 1990s Apple, but we can move on from some things.

Oh, but can we bring back ‘Mouse Practice’? I remember that being the first thing I played around with when my dad brought home a PowerBook.
 
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Strongly disagree, please don’t destroy the menubars on macOS. They‘re a great source of consistency on macOS and give access to a wide range of functionality and (most of times) in a very good structured way. Also if there is not a shortcut yet for something you often use it is easy to self assign shortcuts and improve your experience and productivity this way.
If anything I would rather wish to also have such a consistent UI like the menubar across all apps on iPad as well. We will need something like that with increased complexity and functionality. Right now the situation feels rather messy on iPad and iPhone - lot of functionality is hidden behind small icons that could lead to basically anything. Eg what once was meant as a button for sharing options is now used to basically hide any kind or more advanced functionality may it be to share, modify, save, or view additional information.
what we really need is a more advanced and better structured UI for iPadOS not dumbing down and cluttering macOS with more inconsistencies imho.
 
I may understand that you may be forever Mac users, but this is a bad user experience for those who are coming from an iPad or even Windows. Windows is very accessible with tabbed file explorer windows, while with macOS, it isn't so accessible.


This doesn't fix anything tbh.
I want Apple to add it inside the Windows in addition to the Menu bar. Apple is comfortable (sort of) doing this with Safari. Imagine if the New Tab button was not added to the Safari Window, and you needed to open it with the Menu Bar...
Not all opinions are equal and UX developers have been upsetting and ticking off users for over a decade now. Thinking their design philosophies are 'so perfectly considered' that some of them fail to step outside and look at real-world experience. macOS should stay this way for the reasons mentioned. Isolating your system mentally is a good thing, it may not be so 'convenient' all the time, but when it did convenience become such a primary reasoning on decision making?! It has to stop, otherwise we will be locked into stupid design philosophies for good.
 
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When it comes to high-end, complex apps, what iPad struggles with (I feel comfortable saying this, I ran an M1 13" iPad Pro on 16 as my daily driver for seven months last year) is consistent discoverability for controls and switches from one app to the next. Each app was more-or-less a world of UX ideas unto itself, and the only unifying thread was the share sheet (which itself merits some very stern Kubrick stares, let's be honest). The concept here is called cognitive load - how much mental energy you have to spend transitioning between apps and remembering where to go in each UI for a thing (also, how each app might or might not handle sending or receiving content you’re working with. See the share sheet).

The Mac's menu bar (and the convention of toolbars/sidebars in app windows) is a simple part of how the Mac addresses that: No matter what you're doing or using, anything you need to discover will be available to find up there in the pulldowns along the top of the screen. Always, without fail. All the really good Mac apps also go out of their way to help you discover more obvious, in-context controls for the features you need to use as you go, whether its a button in the window or a keyboard shortcut. But you don’t have to flail before learning them.

It's also, er, a little weird. It's a constant fixture of the Mac UI, yet its contents are a mix of global and app-specific. Yes, the Apple Menu is always the same from app to app, but the File menu and its siblings aren't. That's kinda weird! Familiar and ingrained, but weird! You can make a good case for Windows' approach of stashing all global stuff in the taskbar and putting app-specific stuff in app windows. It's a little more visually inefficient, but it's also a sensible organizational separation much like any UX designer these days would come up with (even Stage Manager does this on iPad!). Here's the difference:
  • The taskbar-for-global and app-windows-for-apps model is there to always remind you of the complete working picture you have.
  • The menu-bar-for-everything model is there to help remind you of the thing currently in the foreground.

That second one sounds a lot like the iPad ideal. Which is the point, I think: the iPad is trying to be what the Mac should be, freed of decades of tradition and being an onscreen office (Desktops? Files? Folders? Hmm.). The trouble in my mind - after all that - is that iPad has an intoxicating tactility that makes every little interaction a delight. Individual apps on it can be brilliant, but they’re most brilliant when they’re not just a foreground but the entire device’s face so you can touch them all the more. iPad is brilliant canvas for apps to play on. But I've never seen it do a meaningful job of being a workspace for apps to play together. The second part hasn’t been cracked yet - every solution shipped so far has either been too simple or too wildly over-engineered. I hope they figure out where the magic lies this year.

As for the Mac’s take on things…it’s tried, its tested, and until something definitively surpasses that menu bar for workspace consistency I would very much like it to stay. Somebody please figure out how to surpass it though. It’s kinda weird.
 
OP is right about Music and full screen mode—I had no idea it existed until this thread. I clicked on the green bubble and it went full screen, then went to Window ->Full Screen Player and it created the interface OP posted an image of. It also left Music still full screen in a separate space. If you turn on Visualizer, it creates a third full screen space!

Apple's first party apps are kind of a mess on the Mac, but that's a different thread.
 
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I know in the Mac OS 8 days, there was an option called "simple finder". But I think that only applies to the Finder, and not the applications.
On ChromeOS there is a “Developer Mode” however under iOS/iPadOS and MacOS it can be under “Advanced or Expert”, just an idea.
 
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They did make a simple mode of macOS. It's called iPadOS.
Technically; No as one is touch based and the other well not at the time and this is just one aspect.

It’s sad that you don’t understand the many differences but I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or facetious with your response.
 
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All power users want is sideloading, power apps on iPadOS, and a desktop mode similar to Samsung DeX. That's it. This is stuff the Galaxy Tabs already figured out.
Apple may eventually bring these to iPadOS and iOS but “Years later; that’s iOS/iPadOS” 😝
 
OP is right about Music and full screen mode—I had no idea it existed until this thread. I clicked on the green bubble and it went full screen, then went to Window ->Full Screen Player and it created the interface OP posted an image of. It also left Music still full screen in a separate space. If you turn on Visualizer, it creates a third full screen space!

Apple's first party apps are kind of a mess on the Mac, but that's a different thread.
Yeah, people need to actually read the thread lol.
 
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I think when Apple does eventually support touch screens on the Mac, they should bring back the NeXTStep floating vertical menu.
 
Yeah, people need to actually read the thread lol.
Spotify has a button that does the same thing as Apple's full screen view I found by mistake. Two diagonal arrows that I assumed went to full screen mode like the green bubble but actually create the similar full screen view as Apple Music with album art. But they at least have a button that you could find through exploring the interface.
 
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