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I’ve never watched one minute of GoT. I don’t need gratuitous sex and violence to be entertained. Having said that I don’t know why Apple ever bid on this show in the first place.
I don't think sex and violence were selling point of GoT. My 63 year old mother did not want to watch it because only bits she saw earlier were sex and vioilence bits. However once she wathed first episode in full she was hooked. And later seasons did cut on sex part.
 
Or maybe join the rest of civilized world and instead of blaming TV/games, introduce common sense gun laws.

"Common Sense" is really an objective term thrown around to make someone's opinion seem more grounded in facts and reality than it is.

Your "common sense" is another person's BS. Their BS is someone else's common sense.

Sorry, but when I hear someone say "Common sense gun laws" I think about "Common sense abortion laws".

Regardless of your position on these two subjects, they rarely find themselves in direct political conflict.

So sorry, but when I hear "Common sense" I hear "My position makes more sense than yours, yours is garbage, so bugger off. I have common sense on my side".

It really is a weak way of making a point.
 
Sorry, dude. I do not know about "Central US" but violence in film and books has been with us for a long, long time.

Only when military, repeating-discharge weapons with magazines in the 10's if not 100's became readily available, then we got the spree of murderous attacks on the population.

We stand as the single nation where the number of these weapons exceeds the population by a geometric factor.

Do not believe me? -- take a walk on the Google search engine. And educate yourself.

I think the point is that with all the mass shootings we have right now, it's more difficult to enjoy shows about violence. When you feel safe and don't have a lot of trauma, shows about violence are more interesting because you have emotional distance. When you or people you know are affected by a mass shooting, it gets a little too real.
 
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This show has a problem in that the protagonists are acting out their pain and anger by going around shooting millennials. We have a serious problem of people with mental health issues becoming increasingly isolated, disaffected, and entitled. For a variety of factors they tend not toward fixing themselves, but on blaming and targeting other people for all of their pain, anger and hate. We seem to have a hate group and a target group for just about every kind of disaffection you can think of.

These people tend to refer back to previous mass shootings as their inspiration. For this reason, a show with this kind of premise, is a problem.

And frankly the premise of two guys going around shooting people and getting away with it for too long was already done in real life and there was nothing entertaining about it. The DC Snipers. It was sad and horrifying all around. So the premise of this show sounds absolutely tedious. It’s just the news done over and over.

It would be far more interesting to see two old veterans use their life experiences to honor their dead loved one by deciding to try and help younger people be better people, instead. In that way, they would face their own pain and their own demons.

That would be a harder story to tell. It would take some hardcore writing, for example, to show them trying to help a drug addict get off the streets, and perhaps flashing back to coming back from Vietnam and kicking their own addictions. Or seeing a fellow vet end up on the streets and not being able to help.

Or help an abused mother (or father) extricate themselves from a harmful relationship and get their kids to safety. And that could remind them perhaps of when they came back with PTSD and endangered their own families. (My dad was a Vietnam vet and I know firsthand the story of them coming home and trying to take up where they left off is a huge dramatic story).

There are so many interesting adult stories that could be told about two old Vietnam veterans and they could have legitimate reasons to depict violence and drug use and anything else “edgy” people seek out for whatever reasons as entertainment. But this? What crap is this? It’s actually an insult to veterans who came home with serious issues and tried harder with their lives than to go around shooting up the next generation.

Perhaps the original Israeli series is good? I don’t know. But I think already it loses everything in the translation to the concept that Apple nixed.
 
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I think the point is that with all the mass shootings we have right now, it's more difficult to enjoy shows about violence. When you feel safe and don't have a lot of trauma, shows about violence are more interesting because you have emotional distance. When you or people you know are affected by a mass shooting, it gets a little too real.
Why do some people always assume that because they feel a certain way everyone else must too. Let me fix that for you

*it's more difficult FOR ME to enjoy shows about violence

I enjoy shows about violence just as easy as ever. The thing is I can separate Hollywood and the real world in my mind. So many can't and bring TV violence into reality.
 
Yeah.... I've *never* been the type to shy away from violence in video games, movies or any other entertainment. But I have to agree. If I was Apple, I'd look at a series like this and ask if it's really worth pursuing when ultimately, they're trying to take a story for Israel and re-frame it as something that works for America. It risks translating poorly as a really good story -- and for what? Just another war story about people who "crack" and start killing randomly outside the war....

Doesn't seem like it has a lot of upside?


In the current climate of shootings nearly every day, it's probably not best to make a TV series glorifying violence against people you don't agree with.
 
This is exactly what I was thinking. Commenters on here are missing the point decrying SJWs or whatever. Apple is not Netflix, Amazon, or Hulu, and Disney isn’t any of them either — their content will reflect on the company.

Exactly. Which is why we won’t see Disney paying to be able to continue Netflix’s Daredevil etc and putting it on Disney Plus. IF they make that buy they will put it on Hulu.

Also there is the issue that this show has two very distinct storytelling lines one could take. You could focus on the two men and their friendship etc or you could focus on the acts of violence. If Apple outbid everyone else for the first story and the producers of the actual show started talking they want to do the second then Apple could have released the show simply over that conflict. No politics etc involved. They just weren’t getting what they paid for.
 
On one hand, given the gun violence here in the States I completely understand Apple's wanna-be-squeaky-clean position. They do not want to be creating any content would even go remotely near that and isn't family friendly.

On the other hand, I can still buy ultra violent Italian, Anerican and Asian movies through iTunes (and presumably AppleTV). No, Apple did not produce these, but they are selling them and making a profit on said content.

I understand the differences and the implications of Apple's change of heart, but I find this rather ironic.
 
I guess we better stop making video games
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I hope it doesn't fail because I'm seriously considering subscribing but it can't be all PG content. I'm a big boy so I can deal with scary TV shows
This has nothing to do with videogames and everything to do with targeted violence against a specific group of people that these men don't agree with. This isn't about shooting the bad guys. This is about shooting your neighbor out of hate. That's pretty god damn jacked up if you ask me. We shouldn't be glorifying targeted hate crimes. In GTA, the worst offender out there, you're just shooting everyone indiscriminately. In the recent shootings in the United States, where Apple is based, the shooters have been targeting certain groups and leaving behind manifestos. This hits too close to home for the communities that are still reeling from these acts of terror. And they are happening relentlessly. The last thing we need is to inspire more targeted violence against whatever domestic group someone doesn't agree with. Since we can't actually get any fracking legislation passed to outlaw automatic military weapons that any crazed madman can buy on a moment's notice, the second best thing is to try to remove the proliferation of targeted violence and hate speech from our society. You have any better ideas? Because the politicians are stonewalling this crap HARD.
 
wow. what about violence against non-white, non-christian foreign populations? is it okay to glorify the terrorizing and murder of people around the world who aren't deemed loyal to the american empire? is "American Sniper" okay? because if you think apple should avoid content "glorifying violence against people you don't agree with", somebody better get busy pulling content from iTunes.

on a more practical note...this is a great reason to avoid Apple TV+: sanitized, bland programming that will be of no interest to anyone but the flyovers.
There is a big difference between shooting your neighbor because you don't like the color of their skin or their religion or their age or some other thing about them, and shooting an enemy on a battlefield that has brought harm against your allies or countrymen. Politically I think the republicans have taken the wars too far, and the democrats took drone strikes too far, but we also can't forget that we were hit in the mouth on 9/11 and America doesn't take any ****.

Most of our movies are heroes fighting against terrorist organizations, murderers and rapists, genocidal maniacs, aliens attacking from another planet, etc. For instance, I can't think of any movies where we're shooting Chinese Farmers who have embraced a communist ideology. Our movies tend to shy away from heroes shooting innocent people, and if someone ends up getting shot, they tend to set them up as a bad guy first by providing a back story about all the terrible things they did. And if someone innocent is killed by a hero, it's considered a tragedy that typically deeply affects the hero and makes them question everything they're doing and whether they should even continue.

I do agree that there is way too much violence represented in Hollywood and I'd like to see more thoughtful stories replace the grotesque violence. Hollywood loves to rail against gun violence and then fill their movies with as much gun violence as possible, which does help glorify it. One big reason I like Marvel movies is that they tend to be less violent (and when they are really violent, it's usually superpower vs. superpower so they don't get seriously hurt or they don't show it) and they have good, arching storylines with humor layered in. I personally feel that violence is just a cover for mediocre storytelling, acting, production quality, etc. Very few movies do it well as a point of advancing the plot while making you think seriously about the ramifications of such violence and the impact it has on the people in the movie. They just brush it off with pumped up masculinity. That's not even close to how the real world operates.
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Or maybe join the rest of civilized world and instead of blaming TV/games, introduce common sense gun laws.
See comments in two posts above. If the republicans would get their heads out of their rear maybe we could see some change, but that's just not going to happen. You have a better idea?
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Or vilifying vets...
Very true point.
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Yeah.... I've *never* been the type to shy away from violence in video games, movies or any other entertainment. But I have to agree. If I was Apple, I'd look at a series like this and ask if it's really worth pursuing when ultimately, they're trying to take a story for Israel and re-frame it as something that works for America. It risks translating poorly as a really good story -- and for what? Just another war story about people who "crack" and start killing randomly outside the war....

Doesn't seem like it has a lot of upside?
Exactly. My comment wasn't just about whether it was a good idea from an ethical point of view, but also from a business point of view for Apple. Two big downsides and maybe a mediocre drama rehash. Also, Richard Gere? Mr. Romantic Comedy/Dramedy? OK, lol.
 
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That's OK. That has never stopped Apple before.

Apple was in the music player hole when it introduced iPod. (who needs a thousand songs in they pocket?)

And iPhone. (who want's a glass keyboard?)

And Watch. (it's going to flop in the watch market)

Again Apple's has a few decades of market data characterizing their customers and what they like.

None of that addresses video streaming or producing tv shows. Try again. This isn’t hardware/software. Not to mention Apple is pretty much capped on what they can reasonably charge.
 
None of that addresses video streaming or producing tv shows. Try again. This isn’t hardware/software. Not to mention Apple is pretty much capped on what they can reasonably charge.

It wasn't intended to address video streaming/producing. It does address Apple successfully entering into new markets despite all of the moaning/whining from forum members (in this case armchair media programming executives here) on how Apple will fail. It's always a treat to watch and so adorable.
 
Not going to read through 6 pages of comments, but Im sure its already been said.... Im a cable cutter and loving every minute of that decision x100. I have a strong feeling Apple's efforts will be a non starter for reason like this here today. The fact that they are willing to bend to every butt hurt feeling this early in the game is a huge tell. No thanks! Netflix, Prime, HBO and the like have no problem with any and all content. And some of the most outrageous to some content is also some of the best. Disney+ gets a pass because of their vast library of IP. Apple, please have courage or just don't bother.
 
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Why do some people always assume that because they feel a certain way everyone else must too. Let me fix that for you

*it's more difficult FOR ME to enjoy shows about violence

I enjoy shows about violence just as easy as ever. The thing is I can separate Hollywood and the real world in my mind. So many can't and bring TV violence into reality.

I remember criminals used to get information and tactics out of books and novels, not to mention the internet, games, relationships or being sacked. Sick minds can turn anything into violence.
 
At this point I'm not sure who are the target audience of Apple TV+.

Are they implying that 18+ or 21+ youth can not handle movies with violence specially involving guns.

The question is, is the show just all about glorifying violence or the violence is part of the show to give life to its story. Violence is real, you can't live in a bubble and dismiss it. Our society is built by conflict and in conflict there is violence. If a show/movie gives insight to violence, its consequences and its nature then I think it is being helpful.

I feel like its the same with premarital sex. Some ultra conservative people is against premarital sex and sex education in school because they think that this teaches student to become sinful. Youth not educated about it led to a lot of unwanted pregnancy.
 
It wasn't intended to address video streaming/producing. It does address Apple successfully entering into new markets despite all of the moaning/whining from forum members (in this case armchair media programming executives here) on how Apple will fail. It's always a treat to watch and so adorable.

You didn’t address that though. I never said the iPod, iPhone or watch was fail. I was a day one buyer of those.

You seem to think Apple can just do anything and cite the few things that actually relates to hardware/software that it’s known for. As if this will help them be great at producing tv shows.

That’s adorable too.
 
On the other hand, Apple has always said that their mission is to leave this world better than when they entered it. Apple has made tech and healthcare better already. I am not saying that non-violent content is always better than violent content but it sounds like you’re only interested in the status quo. Maybe Apple is interested in something a little better?
Apple will always be for PROFIT. Please don't be fooled about those mission crap. Why do you think their product prices are so high, so that they can give it to some NGO funding? I don't think so, they are the first company to reach $ 1 Trillion if I'm not mistaken and this show their real mission, to profit from anything it touches. It's a goddamn company not an NGO.

And what is this about made tech and healthcare better? Apple Watch making health care better? There are other wearable out there that does a better job. If you search online for best health care wearable you will rarely see Apple belonging in the list. Apple Watch is a smartwatch trying to do a lot of things at the same time.

I have to admit Apple is good at selling their product even if some of them are not that very good.
 
How can show producers be writing such horrible themes? It barely seems plausible, and it's honestly disgusting. I am glad Apple is shutting it down.
 
You didn’t address that though. I never said the iPod, iPhone or watch was fail. I was a day one buyer of those.

You seem to think Apple can just do anything and cite the few things that actually relates to hardware/software that it’s known for. As if this will help them be great at producing tv shows.

That’s adorable too.

Calm down and take a few deep breaths. What you accuse me of was directed to people in general in my original post.

Apple's long track record stands of understanding their market and customers, and then developing products and services people like, stands.
 
Apple will always be for PROFIT. Please don't be fooled about those mission crap. Why do you think their product prices are so high, so that they can give it to some NGO funding? I don't think so, they are the first company to reach $ 1 Trillion if I'm not mistaken and this show their real mission, to profit from anything it touches. It's a goddamn company not an NGO.

And what is this about made tech and healthcare better? Apple Watch making health care better? There are other wearable out there that does a better job. If you search online for best health care wearable you will rarely see Apple belonging in the list. Apple Watch is a smartwatch trying to do a lot of things at the same time.

I have to admit Apple is good at selling their product even if some of them are not that very good.
There are several trillion dollar companies but size has nothing to do with it. All companies exist for and because of profit. That does not exclude them from trying to make the world better in some way. When a company is as successful as Apple, they have already made the world better for billions of users. Without Apple I and II and iMac, we would be living in a world of beige PCs that exclude the majority of the population from using PCs directly. Without iPhone, we would be stuck with budget devices that only exist to track our movements and purchases and sell ads back to us. Without Apple Watch, 7 people would not be around today according to medical professionals so tell them "Apple Watch is a smartwatch trying to do a lot of things at the same time". Those are just the known, documented cases and Apple Watch is just the beginning.

And then there are many companies that are inspired by Apple to compete and make more great products that make the world better.
 
There are several trillion dollar companies but size has nothing to do with it. All companies exist for and because of profit. That does not exclude them from trying to make the world better in some way. When a company is as successful as Apple, they have already made the world better for billions of users. Without Apple I and II and iMac, we would be living in a world of beige PCs that exclude the majority of the population from using PCs directly. Without iPhone, we would be stuck with budget devices that only exist to track our movements and purchases and sell ads back to us. Without Apple Watch, 7 people would not be around today according to medical professionals so tell them "Apple Watch is a smartwatch trying to do a lot of things at the same time". Those are just the known, documented cases and Apple Watch is just the beginning.

And then there are many companies that are inspired by Apple to compete and make more great products that make the world better.

Wew, your cult like devotion to Apple is scary.
 
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