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If you don’t like it, buy something else is how a market works.

I find the death by a thousand cuts approach frustrating. I bought an iPhone because I like the system level approach to thinking. The idea that you can keep changing parts of the whole and keep it fundamentally the same seems simplistic.
Apple restricted macOS more over time, they did the opposite there. Of course the opposite of the opposite here does not change it anymore than it did on macOS.
No one leaves their country when they like 9 parts but dislike 1 for another country where they like 8 parts but dislike 2, but the 1 part from the prior being a positive here. As an old friend once said, only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Are we—whoever "we" is—concerned about Chromium (the free open source codebase under Chrome, Brave, Edge, Opera, et al) becoming essentially a "monopoly" for web access? Or Chrome (Google's web browser)?

The first seems much less concerning than the second.

NOTE: I'd feel even less concerned if Google were to create a separate Chromium Foundation or some such thing to ensure its longevity and independence. 🤷‍♂️
A lot of diverse input from all sides of the unverse flow into the development of the Chromium project. It is even more open than the USB consortium, which is also always under close observation from governments and opening up more and more to prevent it from ever reaching a proprietary status.
Apple only has/had Safari and Lightning to offer/counter, two things that no one else uses.
You’re on your own, now. That was the idea, right? ;)
Hehe :D
Technically the UK is free to support its citizens just as much but I guess the exit was just so that politicians would have less headaches with the EU over their infringement of the declaration about respecting EU laws when they did one shady thing after another - namely also in the sphere of surveillance, iirc.
Yeah, the EU is so so bad, just wants to rule.
If they don’t hate monopolies, then why all the talk of Apple being a monopoly?
You can technically be a monopoly without legally being a monopoly, it all depends on where you live and how the law is laid out. Apple had 100% control on who gets to release their apps, who gets to pay which commission while also having to pay zero commission themselves (cue in how much Apple spends on the platform blabla, if they say it's a lot it must be true etc.).
And competition doesn’t need mandates to force crap that the majority of users don't want, as evidenced by the minuscule amount of users who use these things on the other platform that allows it. The EU isn’t bringing us competition. They forced something on us because they felt like pushing people around. And in doing so…have a direct hand in allowing a significant monopoly to form. You can say “competition” all you want, but do you really want a world where Google is completely dominant for web browsing and there’s nothing else? Because that’s what the ********* in the EU just made possible. Period.
The EU commission doesn't have to take Apple's word for it, they want to see the data. The data did not back any of Apple's claims to security so we are now where we are and Apple has no one to blame other than themselves. They could have saved all their money on lawyers and marketing and investors and could have improved their App Store in the meantime to set it apart from others, but they didn't. It's 100% on them.

This isn’t about competition. This is about the EU wanting to be the boss and thinking they know best. They’re a government. They DON’T know best. Instead, they’re doing what governments do…ruin things.
This is 100% about competition because the EU was hearing out all the voices who wanted to be heard, not just Apple's, Google's, Tinder's or Spotify's.

It's citizens all the time everywhere saying that they know everything better than politicians. Now, have you had a chat with a minister and their committee that is assigned to a field? No? Then stop spreading random bias based on a simple anti-politician mindset. If you think that these committees don't involve experts in their field, then you are simply still thinking of governments that are not well developed. The EU is not such a dinosaur government.
The heads of the EU commission may know little about tech but they also don't have to, they technically just need to be team leads of their committees and political co-workers, and be able to be publicly visible.

Also, governments have many tools to know many things beter than citizens or random posters on MR forums. Try to look on comments on national non-English tech blogs, they are all in favor of this except for some with bad Google Translate skills.
This is disgusting honestly. Anyone who calls apple a monopoly but is okay with google being a monopoly is a hypocrite.
As above. Plus, Google is designates as Gatekeeper, too, yet they abided by the rules much earlier and they also have been sued multiple times. They don't get better treatment therefore there is no hypocricy.
You are assuming that the limitations of older iPhones not being able to render newer websites is due to Safari or Safari alone.

What happens when it’s the processor’s or RAM issue… not being able to run those “new” web technologies and/or unoptimized ”new” websites by companies doing the less amount of work to have their websites work on different browsers? No amount of different browsers can help you with that in the long run.

Websites with newer tech can and SHOULD create alternative versions for browsers that do not work with them in the first place…ie text-to-speech support of blind users, etc.
RAM and CPU are performance factors, they don't prevent or enable rendering. if you use GPU features (which is a no-no in web design), you have privileged shader technology which lets you take shortcuts so to speak, and basically execute some code as if it were native code, saving you energy and freeing up resources and performance.
Adobe is releasing a new version of Flash again thanks to this.
That is just nonsense.
Yes, because you are not a website developer and have no clue to what
- headaches Apple is causing for web development
- you are possibly missing out on websites because web development is held back by Safari.
This. People have no idea how frustrating it is having to support old schemes from the bronze age just because Apple is that one guy in the study group who never shows up and then appears at the last meeting and still wants to resent part of the presentaton to give the teacher the impression he actually worked on that. Newsflash, he didn't, and the whole group suffered, and its audience was lied to also.
Apple in fact is thus responsible for websites taking more space than should be necesary. Yes, Apple's Safari theoretically looks nice on initial RAM usage but with modern web technologies, it is just nowhere near Chrome's or Firefox's engines, and most of the time has to execute fallback/legacy code.
 
RAM and CPU are performance factors, they don't prevent or enable rendering. if you use GPU features (which is a no-no in web design), you have privileged shader technology which lets you take shortcuts so to speak, and basically execute some code as if it were native code, saving you energy and freeing up resources and performance.

That is just nonsense.

I think you are assuming things will remain the same, with people adhering to standards or best practices. Once the flood gates open, there is no telling any party will not do anything that is only beneficial to themselves and disadvantages the competition.

This is business.

Flash comment is a warning. Any party can superimpose a ridiculous layer onto all these different engines when people are playing favorites with support and usage. Whatever form the next annoyance comes in no one knows.

Nonsense is blindly believing things will remain exactly as they are.
 
I think you are assuming things will remain the same, with people adhering to standards or best practices. Once the flood gates open, there is no telling any party will not do anything that is only beneficial to themselves and disadvantages the competition.
No one assumes that and you know it. It will stay largely the same if people choose it, though.
Any party can superimpose a ridiculous layer onto all these different engines when people are playing favorites with support and usage. Whatever form the next annoyance comes in no one knows.
Maybe where you live. I live in the EU and they take care of ridiculous layers as you have seen.
Nonsense is blindly believing things will remain exactly as they are.
Nonsense was referred to you claiming the likes of Flash's return.

Flash was not abandoned because a Tim Cook denied it, Flash was cancelled by Steve Jobs who didn't want a proprietary and lackluster framework in his house. Big difference.

The EU wants to get rid of proprietary bottlenecks which don't mature, like Lightning.
 
I do not remember a moment when Apple was the leading horse in web technologies. Just because something is different doesn't make it better.
The better browser will win, as it always was. Safari has had this userbase not because Safari was that good but because Apple mandated it for long enough.
Apple was ahead early on with Webkit. That is why Chrome was originally using Webkit but after a few years they forked it.
 
I still believe that the future of applications is web based and platform agnostic. Eventually Apple has to let browsers bring their own rendering engines at some point. That or migrate Safari to chromium from webkit (chromium is a fork of webkit anyway). I am not a fan of the app based economy in the first place, I prefer the open web.
 
No one assumes that and you know it. It will stay largely the same if people choose it, though.

Do you know how long it took the world to get to the web “standards” we have today? Not only that, it‘s still not totally standardized yet.

A skyscraper can take months, even years, to build. But it only takes a second to tear it down.

Maybe where you live. I live in the EU and they take care of ridiculous layers as you have seen.

The EU, like the UN or even the Vatican, has its merits and its weaknesses.

Sometimes, it does seem rather difficult to get every kid to agree on some things.

Nonsense was referred to you claiming the likes of Flash's return.

Flash was not abandoned because a Tim Cook denied it, Flash was cancelled by Steve Jobs who didn't want a proprietary and lackluster framework in his house. Big difference.

Since you are from the EU, I am not sure if English is your first language, and won’t assume either way and your proficiency. But the whole Flash comment is made in irony, and more importantly, I wasn’t **literally** referring to Adobe’s Flash specifically returning but any tech that is bloated and useless that became a “standard” or “common practice” in website design and development.

I fully know Flash‘s history. I was there, doing web design and development. I was exceptionally happy when Steve Jobs denied it from running on iOS and Safari. He didn’t cancel it though. No matter how much we may admire Jobs, he wasn‘t that powerful to outright cancel it from the world. He made it impossible for Flash to run on iOS’s Safari (MacOS could at that point…with a subpar version to their Windows counterpart).

Who is to say another proprietary tech or new “standard” won’t appear again? Where is Jobs to ”cancel” it as you say?

The EU wants to get rid of proprietary bottlenecks which don't mature, like Lightning.

Let’s be honest here. Do we actually think Lightning would be around indefinitely? Or even a year or two? Have you tried transferring movie files from your iPhone to you computer?

That alone, shows that even Apple knows Lightning is on the way out. it served its purposes.

More importantly, many seems to forget Apple was the first to adopt Thunderbolt in all its versions…. Thunderbolt 3’s design lead to the USB-C’s design. Not the other way around. Apple was using it in their Maca already way before USB-C became popular. Not to forget, Thunderbolt can run USB-C, and not the other way around.

The EU may seem to be doing a service for the world or tech, but in reality, it’s like a house guest dancing alone in one of the rooms at Apple’s house party.
 
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I still believe that the future of applications is web based and platform agnostic. Eventually Apple has to let browsers bring their own rendering engines at some point. That or migrate Safari to chromium from webkit (chromium is a fork of webkit anyway). I am not a fan of the app based economy in the first place, I prefer the open web.

Wasn’t that what Steve Jobs wanted?….until everyone was bitching to develop apps for the iPhone?
 
Do you know how long it took the world to get to the web “standards” we have today? Not only that, it‘s still not totally standardized yet.

A skyscraper can take months, even years, to build. But it only takes a second to tear it down.
That's a bold opinion. So if anyone wanted, that Dubai tower would just take a second to disappear?

That being said, that is not in the realm of reality because if you tear it all down, you wil lose all your security and investment on existing infrastructure.
The EU, like the UN or even the Vatican, has its merits and its weaknesses.

Sometimes, it does seem rather difficult to get every kid to agree on some things.
Not every kid has to agree to everything from every adult.
Since you are from the EU, I am not sure if English is your first language, and won’t assume either way and your proficiency. But the whole Flash comment is made in irony, and more importantly, I wasn’t **literally** referring to Adobe’s Flash specifically returning but any tech that is bloated and useless that became a “standard” or “common practice” in website design and development.
Fully aware what it was about and it was rhetorical/cynical and not irony btw. Language proficiency also has little to do with understanding jokes.
What can become a standard now has changed drastically and its approach is sourced in the teachings of developments like Flash, and the goal is to not have these things happen again.
On top of that, Apple is not really pushing innovation in establishing web standards anymore and no one in their right mind would expect otherwise with the focus they have these days on "products".

Also not sure what your comment about me processing English is supposed to achieve. Maybe someone with great English skills can enlighten me.
I fully know Flash‘s history. I was there, doing web design and development. I was exceptionally happy when Steve Jobs denied it from running on iOS and Safari. He didn’t cancel it though. No matter how much we may admire Jobs, he wasn‘t that powerful to outright cancel it from the world. He made it impossible for Flash to run on iOS’s Safari (MacOS could at that point…with a subpar version to their Windows counterpart).
It is my opinion that he cancelled Flash and I was in full support of that. He had a strong pull on tech enthusiasts and it was enough to make the rest of the industry adapt.
He was annoyed as everyone else was and he had the platform to move things, which he did.

That was at a time when Apple was still products-centric, which it no longer is (it's services).
Let’s be honest here. Do we actually think Lightning would be around indefinitely? Or even a year or two? Have you tried transferring movie files from your iPhone to you computer?


That alone, shows that even Apple knows Lightning is on the way out. it served its purposes.
Let's be honest here: For Apple, it was not about Lightning itself but rather MFi. They wanted to print dollars from that scheme for as long as possible.
They found their way through Thunderbolt now since they don't accept the matching USB technology and still get to mark it up.
Either way, the more pressing concerns were adressed already.
More importantly, many seems to forget Apple was the first to adopt Thunderbolt in all its versions…. Thunderbolt 3’s design lead to the USB-C’s design. Not the other way around. Apple was using it in their Maca already way before USB-C became popular. Not to forget, Thunderbolt can run USB-C, and not the other way around.
Thunderbolt 3 was not the first USB-C design and two other companies used USB-C before Apple.
The EU may seem to be doing a service for the world or tech, but in reality, it’s like a house guest dancing alone in one of the rooms at Apple’s house party.
Wrong. Apple is a house guest at the EU's party and telling every girl at the party the same story that he loves her and he would be the best husband because all others are bad, and the EU commission feels like having a word with Timmy boy.
 
Apple was ahead early on with Webkit. That is why Chrome was originally using Webkit but after a few years they forked it.
I believe a big reason why they forked it is Apple basically stop developing it and stop accepting any changes. It was not just not accepting changes or improvements but refusing to even talk about it. Since it was open source they forked it and kept it moving. That became the most popular fork because OMG it allowed improvements and kept moving forward in both features and security.
Like a lot of things Apple has done. Apple starts with a massive lead then stops while everyone else catches up and blows right pass them.
They did it in the web, they did that in cloud storage, Apple did that voice assistant going from a MASSIVE class leading to now a distant 4th place as Google, Amazon and Microsoft all blew passes Apple. Apple just stop and didnt do the needed changes to keep up and fix a core issues in Siri that kept them behind.
 
Gee, remember Lightning being replaced with USB-C? The wailing and gnashing of teeth by white knights convinced their precious Jobsian Holy Land had been defiled? Funny how no one talks about that anymore

I’m convinced Apple has been astroturfing many online discussions about a few of these issues.
 
FFS Apple let me run Firefox with its own engine the way I can on a Mac in the US

Amen to that (I’m not religious, just like the saying)

I’ve switched to FF on macOS and Windows, and I’ve come to vastly prefer it for the extension and sync experience (the Safari sync story falls apart once a PC is in the mix)
 
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I'd love to see storage provider opened up. I self host with nextcloud and would be so nice to just be able to pick it instead of iCloud. Or allow dropbox or other storag providers. Apple charges an absolutely ridiculous amount for storage.

GREAT point
I’m so tired of getting gouged for $10/mo for 2TB of iCloud, when I only need about 350gb … but Apple offers nothing between 2TB and 200gb

Just pure gouging.

Why not charge fairly by simply charging for what is actually used?
 
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For sure - It just really irritates me

It'd be like having a much higher flat rate for how much water or gas or electricity I use, which would be nuts

Charge us for the storage we actually use Apple!
At least with gas, you get paid back for consuming under the set rate. At least that's the case here and with everyone I know.
 
I believe a big reason why they forked it is Apple basically stop developing it and stop accepting any changes. It was not just not accepting changes or improvements but refusing to even talk about it. Since it was open source they forked it and kept it moving. That became the most popular fork because OMG it allowed improvements and kept moving forward in both features and security.
Like a lot of things Apple has done. Apple starts with a massive lead then stops while everyone else catches up and blows right pass them.
They did it in the web, they did that in cloud storage, Apple did that voice assistant going from a MASSIVE class leading to now a distant 4th place as Google, Amazon and Microsoft all blew passes Apple. Apple just stop and didnt do the needed changes to keep up and fix a core issues in Siri that kept them behind.
Well, in Apple's defense on voice assistants, they were behind in voice assit
Wasn’t that what Steve Jobs wanted?….until everyone was bitching to develop apps for the iPhone?
I believe that is not what Jobs wanted, but what he told people to do while secretly they were working on the developer tools for iOS and the App Store. But still, the future is the open web, not walled gardens. Even today, all of these apps are only web services that feed clients. Every app that exists could run fine in a web browser and there would be no reason to care about one app market vs another, and I think that is still the future.
 
Safari never was a viable competitor, never. Apple tried on Windows and failed miserably. They didn't even try on Android.

Fact is that Safari is lacking quite some language features that web devs want, and therefore is holding back web development for all. While I am not happy that Chrome is now winning, Apple brought this onto their own head by systematically neglecting some modern features in the hope of stalling Chrome, just because they held their users ransom.

Now things might change and Apple might have to actively develop Safari again. Horrible, I know.
On the contrary, Safari has been leading with new language features for years. How long did it take for other browsers to get sticky, filter, has, sub grid, container queries...
 
I believe a big reason why they forked it is Apple basically stop developing it and stop accepting any changes. It was not just not accepting changes or improvements but refusing to even talk about it. Since it was open source they forked it and kept it moving. That became the most popular fork because OMG it allowed improvements and kept moving forward in both features and security.
Like a lot of things Apple has done. Apple starts with a massive lead then stops while everyone else catches up and blows right pass them.
They did it in the web, they did that in cloud storage, Apple did that voice assistant going from a MASSIVE class leading to now a distant 4th place as Google, Amazon and Microsoft all blew passes Apple. Apple just stop and didnt do the needed changes to keep up and fix a core issues in Siri that kept them behind.
This is not at all what happened, and Apple never stopped developing. Google simply wanted a different architecture.
 
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