Apple Now Faces 26+ Lawsuits for 'Purposefully' or 'Secretly' Slowing Down Older iPhones

[AndyMacAndMic]

That’s not normal. My kid still gets over a day of use on my old iPhone 6 Plus and it’s over 3 years old now.That Nokia barely got a day of use out of a charge when it was new. There is also no slowdown ‘yet’ on the 6 Plus so I’m not sure if it is excluded from the software ‘fix’ or the battery hasn’t aged enough.

Well, according to you it may not be normal, but my point was:

• It is not throttled by Microsoft because the battery is old.
• It doesn't shut down suddenly/unexpectedly because the battery is old.
• The battery is user replaceable.
• It is completely transparent what is happening with the Lumia phone and why.

My remark was in reaction to Leman, who stated that Microsoft (and Samsung etc.) had to be sued too because of the same practices. I just wanted to point out that those practices are not the same.

 

[jarman92]

So which iPhone 7 battery is years old?

As you can see, I said years old OR under strain OR cold OR degraded OR a combination. Apple says they added the same software for the 7 in iOS 11.2 but I have yet to see evidence of large numbers of iPhone 7s with performance issues.

 

[BorderingOn]

So those folks are all OK with their phones instantly shutting off when they open Facebook?

The thing about this is you get to understand your battery is going and decide whether it lasted as long as it should have or is worth replacing. Information is power. Apple could have easily added a power management toggle when they added low power mode and popped that up when the battery was struggling to meet demand.

 

[Marshall73]

Well, according to you it may not be normal, but my point was:

• It is not throttled by Microsoft because the battery is old.
• It doesn't shut down suddenly because the battery is old.
• The battery is user replaceable.

My remark was in reaction to Leman, who stated that Microsoft (and Samsung etc.) had to be sued too because of the same practices. I just wanted to point out that those practices are not the same.

Should have been a lawsuit against Microsoft as that phone NEVER provided the advertised battery life in normal use. Like the vast majority of laptops and phones on the market. Also similar to the phony mpg figures used for vehicles.

Yet no one sues. But Apple do anything slightly wrong and boom. Class action suits up the ass. Yet google gets away with tracking locations for months without consent and no one blinks an eye. Wtf

 

[deferredAnon]

Should have been a lawsuit against Microsoft as that phone NEVER provided the advertised battery life in normal use. Like the vast majority of laptops and phones on the market. Also similar to the phony mpg figures used for vehicles.

Yet no one sues. But Apple do anything slightly wrong and boom. Class action suits up the ass. Yet google gets away with tracking locations for months without consent and no one blinks an eye. Wtf

You are more than welcome to sue. You can still sue I think.

Almost implying that suing is done by the government rather than private individuals.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Should have been a lawsuit against Microsoft as that phone NEVER provided the advertised battery life in normal use. Like the vast majority of laptops and phones on the market. Also similar to the phony mpg figures used for vehicles.

Yet no one sues. But Apple do anything slightly wrong and boom. Class action suits up the ass. Yet google gets away with tracking locations for months without consent and no one blinks an eye. Wtf

Nice diversion tactics, but you are going way off track here.

I can sue my Internet Provider too for not always getting the advertised internet speed. Probably I can think of another 1000 examples to sue. But what has that to do with the subject at hand?

 

[firewood]

That’s not normal. My kid still gets over a day of use on my old iPhone 6 Plus and it’s over 3 years old now.That Nokia barely got a day of use out of a charge when it was new. There is also no slowdown ‘yet’ on the 6 Plus so I’m not sure if it is excluded from the software ‘fix’ or the battery hasn’t aged enough.

That's why I'm quite suspicious of all these claims that Apple is purposefully slowing down old iPhones. My old iPhone 5s and old iPhone 6 run just as fast as when they were new. The 5s battery has over 500 cycles. It's been updated to iOS 11.2; and I see no performance drop when running short benchmarks. Something else must be wrong with all those iPhones that are reported to have serious lags when typing, etc.

Apple did recall a large number of iPhone 6s devices for sub-standard batteries. Perhaps more of those bad batteries are still out there, and need to be replaced under warranty.

They have to ‘prove’ that what Apple did was underhanded and for the majority of these lawsuits also prove that Apple did it to make you buy a new phone.

All Apple has to do is show that the iOS updates were done to benefit customers (reduce shutdowns, extend battery life to meet the standby time specification, fix bugs, close exploits, etc.), and were done according to standard business practices for software updates. It will very difficult to prove in court that some nefarious motive was behind these beneficial software updates. I seriously doubt that anyone will find a memo from Tim to some engineer saying "new iPhones go on sale next month, add some code to turn down the clock on all of last years models by 40% to annoy users". Anyone can make up suspected motives. Proving that in court is a different matter. The lawyers will profit from trying and failing.

 

[deferredAnon]

All Apple has to do is show that the iOS updates were done to benefit customers (reduce shutdowns, extend battery life to meet the standby time specification, fix bugs, close exploits, etc.), and were done according to standard business practices for software updates. It will very difficult to prove in court that some nefarious motive was behind these beneficial software updates. I seriously doubt that anyone will find a memo from Tim to some engineer saying "new iPhones go on sale next month, add some code to turn down the clock on all of last years models by 40% to annoy users".

I wish there was HD video tape recording from all angles when a crime(or fraud in this case) was committed. But sometimes, we have to look at 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Your bias may vary.

 

[r.harris1]

I wish there was HD video tape recording from all angles when a crime was committed. But sometimes, we have to look at 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Your bias may vary.

Sure, but there's nothing in this thread, or any of the others, that shows anyone has done anything nefarious, "beyond reasonable doubt" or otherwise. I see a lot statements dressed as facts, but no actual ones that point to criminal behavior or intent. Facts may not matter in the world of media or politics, but they still matter in courts.

 

[deferredAnon]

Sure, but there's nothing in this thread, or any of the others, that shows anyone has done anything nefarious, "beyond reasonable doubt" or otherwise. I see a lot statements dressed as facts, but no actual ones that point to criminal behavior or intent. Facts may not matter in the world of media or politics, but they still matter in courts.

This is not the court system. This is social media.

 

[Tiger8]

When battery can't provide the required wattage, almost every contemporary laptop is being slowed down by the system. Look around in the internet, there are a lot of reports of laptops slowing down when the battery is old, defective or otherwise less functional. Everyone who has at least some experience with support knows this. And it makes a lot of sense, since limiting system's power draw is a safer outcome than letting the machine suffer a power failure and potential data loss.

It is entirely possible that Apple's iOS treatment is more involved than the standard "limit power draw to what can be supplied", but its the same principle. Only Apple's "sin" is lack of communication. Which is an area where Apple has to improve if they want to keep customer loyalty.



Or just supply a standard power-management driver. Battery monitoring is not that difficult.

Well as expected, you are mixing things. The technology you are talking about is related to the status of the battery. Which means that if the battery is below a certain threshold, the device slows down to reduce drain. So even a new battery at 5 percent charge, the device slows down. On the flipside, a device with an older battery that say 80 percent charged, does not get slowed down.

Apple's disasterous approach does not look at the current charge of the battery, instead it looks at how many cycles are left (aka how old is the battery) and slows down the device accordingly regardless of how charged the battery is. Your iphone could be plugged in and still it will be slowed down.

Do laptops slow down when plugged into power? They don't, your iPhone does.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Is it not equally true, if we belive the performance hit etc, that the processor is over spec'd as much as the battery could be under ?

Giving Apple the benift of the doubt that they picked the best battery to suit the size weight and other constraints . Or a better constructed battery for 1 or 2% gains was rediculously cost prohibative.

Then the issue can equally lie with the processor or the code that controls it and Apple over selling capabilities or perceptions that were not sustainable over a reasonable period

 

[cicalinarrot]

May I observe they never declared, advertised nor promised any CPU frequency, so they actually never lied to anyone? It could sound like a detail but they actually just have to deliver the best user experience. "Secrecy" is bullpoo. The new CPU frequency is just as secret as it was before.

 

[r.harris1]

This is not the court system. This is social media.

Thanks for the clarification.

Point being, not seeing any arguments in this thread or others that would be convincing enough to jump on one of the lawsuits.

 

[deferredAnon]

Thanks for the clarification.

Point being, not seeing any arguments in this thread or others that would be convincing enough to jump on one of the lawsuits.

By forcing the throttling, especially without knowledge of customer, it is easy to sue.

 

[naturalstar]

They have to ‘prove’ that what Apple did was underhanded and for the majority of these lawsuits also prove that Apple did it to make you buy a new phone.

Not sure that will have much success and it’s only the law firms that make money from this as the participants will probably only get a cheque for 10 bucks each as usual. The real cost is to future Apple customers who will pay inflated prices to cover profit loss. The whole class action suit thing is wrong as it doesn’t benefit anyone who actually lost out, just the law firms.

I believe Apple screwed up big time here. They had an issue with some devices shutting down and the engineering team devised a fix that throttled the phone once the battery was at a certain state.

Now the dumb part of this was to do it without advising the user. At a very MINIMUM they should have had a note in the update and a new battery entry which advises of battery state. And, just like on MacBooks, it should advise once the battery requires replacing. It would have been simple to do but the lack of transparency is gonna cost them both cash and lost trust.

I agree with all you said here.

Unfortunately, legal fees are set the way they are and since suits can’t be brought otherwise, it’s a system flaw. I would hope, if judgement goes against Apple, that there could be a way to limit how quickly Apple recoups costs. They already charge top-level prices as is. To go higher beyond normal increases will not be well received. It really wouldn’t be right for customers to still ultimately pay for their wrongdoings in all of this.

Personally, I’m hoping for technological improvements, quality improvements, priority shifts, and action to rebuild trust to take place once this is all said and done.

 

[quik]

Well well well... I changed my wife's iPhone 6 because of slowdown to a iPhone 6S.

I'll gladly take a few bucks.

I think Apple may review their decision in the future to have internal batteries and may opt for replaceable ones.

 

[r.harris1]

By forcing the throttling, especially without knowledge of customer, it is easy to sue.

You state that as fact and sounds more like supposition. If you use a phone by any manufacturer, while they've been clear that they don't throttle based on battery charge / capacity / age like Apple does, you do know that one of the ways that power is managed, battery, etc is to throttle down components in certain situations, right? You do know that CPU and GPU aren't running full throttle all of the time on any phone, right?
[doublepost=1515264320][/doublepost]

Well well well... I changed my wife's iPhone 6 because of slowdown to a iPhone 6S.

I'll gladly take a few bucks.

I think Apple may review their decision in the future to have internal batteries and may opt for replaceable ones.

Was the slowdown because of the battery?

 

[deferredAnon]

You state that as fact and sounds more like supposition. If you use a phone by any manufacturer, while they've been clear that they don't throttle based on battery charge / capacity / age like Apple does, you do know that one of the ways that power is managed, battery, etc is to throttle down components in certain situations, right? You do know that CPU and GPU aren't running full throttle all of the time on any phone, right?

I stated it as a fact because it IS a fact. Jesus.

If Apple didn't admit to slowing down, case would be even easier.

 

[fazel]

I was part of this. $27,000 to turn in a three-year old car with 58,000 miles that cost $30,000 new. This is a good analogy, other than the fact that VW actually broke the law with their emissions system in the TDI's. In all, I believe the scandal cost VW around $30 billion.

That's just silliness. No one is okay with a phone that is randomly shutting down, but neither are most okay with their phones being forcibly SLOWED down with absolutely no explanation to the cause. Even more, many of those people INQUIRED of Apple regarding the phone performance only to be told that there was nothing wrong.

Remember VW's lawsuit about secretly altering emissions stats? Are you okay with that? What if a car company advertised a certain level of fuel performance, but as the car aged it no longer met those levels. So the next time you take your car in for an oil change, they tinker with you car and put a governor on the motor that impedes performance, but increases your mileage to their advertised standards. They don't tell you, and when you asked about a certain 'lag' as you push the accelerator, their service underwriter gets in the car, drives it, and says, "Hey, everything seems fine to me."

Are you okay with that? Consumers just want honest, upfront communication, and they are due that as a paying customer.

 

[mebehere]

So, if your battery is at 800 charge cycles, you expect a FREE battery?

Have you never seen the warranty for car tires or car batteries. Both are "pro-rated" in various ways. Why? Because those items are "Consumables".

For example, car batteries are generally considered to last about 5 years, and is tracked to a granularity of ONE MONTH. Often the battery will be at full-replacement-value if the failure happens within the first two or three years; but then, the "Pro-rated" warranty clause starts nibbling away, month-by-month, at how much "credit" against a replacement PURCHASE you'll be given.

For example, using the Exide Corporation's warranty info page (just the first one that came up on a Google search), you can see their "Invatubular"-model car batteries have the following warranty (and notice, this says NOTHING about the LABOR cost being covered; so it is most likely NOT):

0 - 36 months: Full Replacement Value

36 - 42 months: 20% Discount on new battery PURCHASE

42 - 48 months: 10% Discount on a new battery PURCHASE

http://www.exideindustries.com/products/industrial-batteries/warranty-terms.aspx


And, as I said, LABOR NOT INCLUDED, EVEN IF THE BATTERY FAILS IN THE FIRST 36 MONTHS!!!

So, in an attempt to correlate this with Charge-Cycles, and using Apple's criteria of "80% charge retention after 500 charge/discharge cycles", we have the following:

Failure to hold 80% charge after:

0 - 500 cycles: Full Replacement (Apple's standard policy for a "defective" battery)

500-600 cycles: 20% off of $79, or roughly $63 Replacement Cost (we'll not quibble about how much is battery vs. labor. Too hard to figure)

600-700 cycles: 10% off of $79, or roughly $71 Replacement Cost

THAT would be like a typical "battery warranty". And as you can see, even at $79, Apple isn't exactly "profiteering", even if replacing a 501-cycle battery for $79. They would only be making about $15.80 at that level over a realistic "pro-rated" battery warranty, and only about $7.90 on a 601-cycle battery.

And don't forget, the LABOR is included, UNLIKE the car-battery (even at the "Full Replacement" level)

But now, Apple is now replacing batteries at what HAS to be or below cost. That restores your "Deliberately slowed-down phone" (even one that is up to 40 months old (iPhone 6 available in the U.S. since 9/14/14, and which could conceivably have up to 1,200 charge-cycles (assuming charging once-per-day for heavy use)) to like-new performance, and likely for as long as you are going to keep that particular model. For a flat, NON-PRO-RATED, $29.

Sorry, but I think Apple is being QUITE reasonable, considering this is a BATTERY with a LIMITED LIFESPAN we're talking about.

And yet, you STILL aren't satisfied.

Ridiculous.

You wasted a whole bunch of time typing all that. Have a nice day.

 

[sterlingindigo]

Smoke and mirrors:

When did 80% begin to mean failure? In my book that’s a solid “B” lmao. Why don’t they just call it 35% then? It would not be unlike when like they altered the signal strength bars during antenna-gate. The user indeces are nothing more than dummy lights on modern expensive technology.

Trust.

 

[617660]

Should have been a lawsuit against Microsoft as that phone NEVER provided the advertised battery life in normal use. Like the vast majority of laptops and phones on the market. Also similar to the phony mpg figures used for vehicles.

Yet no one sues. But Apple do anything slightly wrong and boom. Class action suits up the ass. Yet google gets away with tracking locations for months without consent and no one blinks an eye. Wtf

I dont mind having Microsoft and google sued for what they did. However, the difference is that while msft and goog may have benefited there was no real monetary loss from the consumer perspective.

 

[firewood]

When did 80% begin to mean failure?

When products started using Li-ion batteries instead of lead acid or carbon. Read up on battery impedance and the chemistry of degradation in Li-ion cells.

 

[sterlingindigo]

When life gives you Apple’s
Turn them into lemons
Turn those lemons into a lemon battery
And tell Apple to gth.
[doublepost=1515269266][/doublepost]

When products started using Li-ion batteries instead of lead acid or carbon. Read up on battery impedance and the chemistry of degradation in Li-ion cells.

Read up on this. 80%