How much more would you pay for this? Let's say there were two versions of the same phone. They are identical except for where they are made. The Chinese version was $500 and the "Made in USA" version was $1,000. Which would you buy? If you would not pay double, at what point do you buy the US phone?
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Apple Now Produces the iPhone 13 in India
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Agreed. Most of the people who complain about foreign manufacturing enabled it for thirty years by buying the cheaper option for clothes, shoes, electronics, cookware, and everything else. They then say “How did this happen?!” and demand products made here…until they see the price tag and no one is watching them secretly buy the cheaper option again.
Eexactly @xRem! That's partly why I was careful to add that no one needed take the challenges of "Made in the USA" personally, as this topic, in the states, can understandably be made quite personal. For some.
As you suggest, this has nothing to do with general education or capacity/potential of any one human in any one country and literally everything to do with profits (almost always does). I mean, let's pretend the US made some grand commitment to be "manufacturing iPhones in the US by 2030." And pretend the infrastructure; the training, the development, the workforce, the factories, could all be in place by then (remember, I said pretend). We would still be facing the single most significant hurdle of the entire situation: labor laws. The main reason China has cornered the global manufacturing market (aside from their commitment to developing skilled tradespeople), is because they have no labor laws. Or at least none with the laborer in mind. They pay pennies a day while working their workforce to death (sometimes literally). To be clear: pennies a day + inhumane working conditions will never, ever, fly in the US - nor should it (nor should it anywhere). But while we're here, let's pretend this all the way to the end. Say the US somehow manage to pay its laborers at least a minimum wage, offered health benefits, 401k, sick days, paid time off, performance reviews, bonus structure - you know, the standard employment expectation of the US workforce - it's funny how immediately the "Made in the USA" rally cry would silence once the price of goods sky rocketed to more than 5x what they would cost when manufactured in China. I am 100% certain the US consumer will not foot the bill of developing this skilled workforce. And there is even less of a chance that any corporation will foot that same bill. I know it pains some to accept, but everything - even patriotism - has it's limits.
Simply put, we are all part of an interconnected global economy. One in which we all benefit from a globally balanced approach to manufacturing and trade. If Earth were a city and each country were a business, it would seem most efficient and beneficial if each business offered a specialized need that would benefit the city. I don't go to the dentist to get my transmission repaired. But both are valued services in a healthy, prosperous city. Same goes for the planet.
Good. Given the choice of the two giants to invest in, India has more progress to make and far greater total potential than China. I may even be tempted to get another iPhone, for the first time in a decade.
Well, yes and no, why do you expect that we should pay more, instead of the manufacturer having less revenue.
It’s a tug of war between buyer and seller.
What we need are laws that demands manufacturing of X% of the world wide sold devices in the continent/countries where they are being sold, with exception for startups for e.g. 3-5 years. Demand X% manufactured in US, X% manufactured in EU, etc. and for companies that are e.g >=10 years successful in the market it splits down to countries. Alternatively demand higher tax and proportional job creation.
Something more or less like that…
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India is a democracy in name only. Cartels and clans rule permanently (much worse than any democracy that has clans), the caste system keeps people locked in poverty forever, there is one class of people called Untouchables who aren’t even allowed to share a table with you even though there’s nothing wrong with them, child slavery is on every street, and more than than any country on earth they have the most amount of mafias and scam business that steal money from all over the world.
They won’t even be a fake democracy in 10 years. Religious theocracy has been rising, religious oppression is rising, bullying and threats against minorities by the gurus and swamis is rising.
So I don’t think western companies will last long there. They are also going to be the first country in whole of Asia to face ecological collapse. Their rivers are completely clogged with trash and sewage, the water is black like tar, the sea life is dead. All the farmers and the poor and the animals depend on natural water but in 10 years it will be gone.
You could fly to India and buy it from there. Or you could find a proxy to buy it for you. It will probably cost 30% more than if you buy it here in the US because of excise duty in India.
Oh please. You are talking about India of 500 years ago. Caste system is in each and every country. Maybe you should go to r/india cesspool and celebrate your thoughts.
The article doesn’t talk about Indian pricing after make in India.
It's not the IC production that needs to be replicated, since those are high value items that are cost effective to ship internationally, and form the core of logistics planning. It's the screws, and stuff like that, that are the limiting factor. You know, those tiny, custom-designed proprietary screws for which Apple squeezes its suppliers on price, and demands JIT delivery, in huge volumes? China has thousands of those kind of suppliers.
Is it really made “outside of china” if the supplier itself is Chinese-owned?
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
Hmm.
Sounds like the same (Taiwanese) company will be doing the manufacturing, so what happens when (not if) China takes over Taiwan?
Russia has set quite the precedent and has exposed the weaknesses in the global market.
Countries cannot simply jump in and object to this or that arbitrarily, because most nations are quite interdependent of each other. The pros and cons of condemnation, sanctions, and all-out war must be weighed VERY carefully.
The next few weeks will reveal all this when people start running out of food (wheat) and fuel as the Russians outlast the Ukrainians in the war.
And Americans need to pay attention; the disinformation mechanisms/tactics used by the totalitarian regimes that caused all this (going all the way back to the Third Reich) are being used in America as well.
I never thought my children would end up living in the same (or actually worse) World I did after 30+ years of slow, but forward progress.
Sounds like the same (Taiwanese) company will be doing the manufacturing, so what happens when (not if) China takes over Taiwan?
Russia has set quite the precedent and has exposed the weaknesses in the global market.
Countries cannot simply jump in and object to this or that arbitrarily, because most nations are quite interdependent of each other. The pros and cons of condemnation, sanctions, and all-out war must be weighed VERY carefully.
The next few weeks will reveal all this when people start running out of food (wheat) and fuel as the Russians outlast the Ukrainians in the war.
And Americans need to pay attention; the disinformation mechanisms/tactics used by the totalitarian regimes that caused all this (going all the way back to the Third Reich) are being used in America as well.
I never thought my children would end up living in the same (or actually worse) World I did after 30+ years of slow, but forward progress.
Thats exactly how I feel, failing to call Putin is not a good move, India has fallen to a zero for me
Scottie
By that logic you shouldn’t reward Apple with your purchase since they are the ones giving business to China.
Well, would be good for the environment and the senseless every year buying of gadgets would come to an end. Goes hand in hand with right-to-repair.
Thats why the only good solution would be percentage manufacturing per law in US and EU for all electronics.
But somebody would have to sit and write down a decent concept.
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Oh please, he's right in his assessment, I've been there long enough to know he's right, and then some.
I’m Indian don’t tell me about my country. Don’t make excuses about these terrible things. I walk down streets every day and suffer the sight of poverty and exploited people. You don’t have caste system anywhere else like this. You don’t have anything in any country as bad as what is happening in New Delhi and Mumbai.
The worst thing that happened is the right wing Americans sending their Ponzi schemes to my country, recruiting the young men to scam and beg online, recruiting the young men to create hundreds of fake accounts to troll, harass and scam. All these young people could have a better life but India has imported the worst of capitalism, combined it with the worst of caste system and after these young people will be exploited their future will be destroyed. Who will they turn to in 10 years when even the scam call center won’t employ them? Their future is being taken away by corrupt Indian gangsters working with American scammers together.
I really hope it's for Indian market only and not global because I don't want to pay premium and get Indian made Apple Product.(no offence to Indians just being real)
Well, would be good for the environment and the senseless every year buying of gadgets would come to an end. Goes hand in hand with right-to-repair.
I'd be all for them being made domestically -- and for paying more for it -- but only if Apple changed their design ethos a bit and made them, on purpose and by design, to be more modular and easy to fix and keep going for longer.
Battery swaps should be made easy. Internal storage should be upgradeable also (or something you can add to with SD, etc). I'd even love if they'd make camera modules that could be upgraded -- let's be real -- that's the majority of the reason anyone upgrades anyhow (battery and camera)
This all will come, the EU recently voted for right-to-repair it’s game over for Apple. It does even include the right to revert updates and upgrades, their signature lock-in will be ended for sure.
Me too…
The European Parliament voted 509 in favor, three against, and 13 abstentions, on the topic of the EU Commission’s proposal.
And this el‘cheapo in China, India manufacturing will be next. At the moment almost everything is being manufactured is China & Co. , mainly to fill the throat of share holders, Board members and CEOs.
Putin opened the western countries eyes, they noticed how dangerous being 100% dependent is, and they will tackle this „issue“ soon.
Making ALL new iPhones in India may be a way to be more consistent with the manufacturing processes. It seems like the iPhones currently being manufactured as well as those from the past few years have been "sub-standard" in terms of quality as well as uniformity. I hope having a different location will bring Apple's iPhone line back to its former glory. Granted, nothing is necessarily PERFECT, there will always be some sort of problems to overcome. But starting NEW should garner an improved product.
I wish it was not made in India and China, but instead in USA