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My poll data does not support your position. Results below for your edification

Poll Question: What does it mean when something is offered or given to you for "free"?

AnswerVotesPercent
Money doesn't change hands but ultimately nothing is perfectly "free" so it's understood that someone, somewhere, somehow pays for it
7.674 billion, roughly entire population of the world
~100%
If I walk to a public park in a town where I don't pay taxes and see an ad stapled to a telephone pole then the park visit wasn't free because the ad viewing and energy consumed by my body are a form of payment, and I should correct anyone that tells me otherwise4jasontv and friends~0%
Well if you don't understand words I won't blame you for not understanding numbers either.

Free has two meanings, which is why we say 'free as in beer' and 'free as in speech.' When it comes to ads, it's the speech one. You still pay money for it, only it's not United States Doll'a but time. Which most companies like to set a really poor exchange rate for.
 
Well if you don't understand words I won't blame you for not understanding numbers either.
You still pay money for it, only it's not United States Doll'a but time.
This is amazing. I think I understand now. You pay money for it, except it's not money, it's a different thing entirely which is time.

Thank you for explaining to me that currency is exactly the same thing as time. I wish I could understand words as well as you
 
This is amazing. I think I understand now. You pay money for it, except it's not money, it's a different thing entirely which is time.

Thank you for explaining to me that currency is exactly the same thing as time. I wish I could understand words as well as you
Glad to be of help. Anything you give up to acquire something else is payment. It's an important thing to know because not everyone asks for cash, and you don't want to overspend.
 
I know but the value add of the newest iPad is still a hard sell for me to upgrade. In other words, I don’t expect to gain enough benefit for my uses for the ultimate cost involved.
your 2018 iPad is near EOL. That should be enough right there?
 
Glad to be of help. Anything you give up to acquire something else is payment. It's an important thing to know because not everyone asks for cash, and you don't want to overspend.
I just want to make sure I understand - what would you propose we rename the following things to?
  1. Free apps on the App Store
  2. Free samples at the supermarket
  3. Free consultation
  4. Free admission for seniors
 
I just want to make sure I understand - what would you propose we rename the following things to?
  1. Free apps on the App Store
  2. Free samples at the supermarket
  3. Free consultation
  4. Free admission for seniors
I am so sorry that this is so challenging for you.

  1. Free apps on the App Store. Free, so long as the app has no upfront cost, IAP, subscriptions, and no advertising (for third party products or their own products), and doesn't require another purchase to use it.
  2. Free samples at the supermarket. That is advertising. It's a form of payment.
  3. Free consultation. That is advertising. It's a form of payment.
  4. Free admission for seniors. That's advertising. It's a form of payment.
I think we might have figured out where you are having issues. If you pay for something it's not free.
 
I am so sorry that this is so challenging for you.

  1. Free apps on the App Store. Free, so long as the app has no upfront cost, IAP, subscriptions, and no advertising (for third party products or their own products), and doesn't require another purchase to use it.
  2. Free samples at the supermarket. That is advertising. It's a form of payment.
  3. Free consultation. That is advertising. It's a form of payment.
  4. Free admission for seniors. That's advertising. It's a form of payment.
I think we might have figured out where you are having issues. If you pay for something it's not free.
I appreciate the extra info but you missed my question - what would you call these? These are all items that we commonly see out in the world, and close to 100% of people understand them to mean that no currency changes hands but someone, somewhere, somehow pays for them. What would you rename these to, given how resistant you are to even some guy on a forum saying that a website is free to view, in a way that's consistent with this universally understood meaning?
 
I appreciate the extra info but you missed my question - what would you call these? These are all items that we commonly see out in the world, and close to 100% of people understand them to mean that no currency changes hands but someone, somewhere, somehow pays for them. What would you rename these to, given how resistant you are to even some guy on a forum saying that a website is free to view, in a way that's consistent with this universally understood meaning?
Three of them are clearly advertising, which is a form of payment. For something to be free, there must be no expectations.

Expectations are what you give in exchange for something else. Currency can be US dollars, or it could be the Euro, or a Pound. And using an exchange rate they can be evenly changed from one to another. Right now there is an expectation that for every 6.18 in Euros you will get $7.25 in US dollars. But both of those can be turned into 1 hour of US federal minimum wage payment. One hour of work in the US is equal to 6.18 Euros.

It's that expectation that is important for distinguishing if something is free. Currency is just a way to assign numerical values to different things to make payment easier but you can pay for things with something other than cash. You can pay with eggs, 8 hours of pushing papers on a desk, or 30 seconds of staring at a screen. We often pay for things by giving them a portion of our life in the form of attention. Generally, the party that sets the conditions of cost is the one who gets paid.

Amusement center prizes cost tickets, not cash, and I hope you wouldn't say that every item behind the counter is free. You pay with tickets. For a child who earns those tickets the cost is the time necessary to get them. Sure, cash might be involved, but it doesn't have to be. I used to have an arcade that gave tokens for each book you read. The tokens weren't free, because you had to read a book to get them, and the tickets weren't free because you had give the machine a token and your time and energy to get the tickets. And the prizes weren't free because you had to give up tickets to get them.

I suspect you are confusing me being wrong with the people you know not considering what they had to spend to get so-called free. Just because someone says something is 'free' and doesn't charge money doesn't make it free. There are a lot of things people use the wrong word for, and while most may typically just roll with it, that doesn't make their use of term correct. For example, I can't tell you how many people have told me their dog just gave birth to puppies despite the fact that no dog in history has ever given birth to even a single puppy.

I am stuck on this because it's a peeve of mine. We so badly want things to be free that often we just start using the word when it doesn't apply. And maybe it's just another example of how language can give us words that mean the opposite of what it means (such as literally). But while literally is annoying misusing free actually impacts the way people perceive the world. It changes our conception of fairness and rights. So for me, calling something free, when it isn't free, harms us.

So... I am sorry if I may have come off moody, but free means something.
 
Im sure you will be fine with a second hand tablet lol
You’re purposely asserting words that aren’t necessary, when the OP of that post stated that they would be perfectly fine with an Apple _certified_ product, which is Kinda-sorta used, [but still can include a new battery, display, etc.]
 
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I keep tossing between these refurbs and the new Pro's, esp with my edu discount and current airpod promo. I don't own any airpods and could add the airpod pro's for 90 bucks extra.

any suggestions where the better deal/ipad lies?
 
I guess m1's wont be available til next august I assume. I was hoping m1 iPad's would enter the refurb store, since m1 Mac mini/iMac/MacBooks are have.
 
You’re purposely asserting words that aren’t necessary, when the OP of that post stated that they would be perfectly fine with an Apple _certified_ product, which is Kinda-sorta used, [but still can include a new battery, display, etc.]

your entire post isn’t necessary, so what’s your point?
 
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