Apple Offering Free Licensing of Mini DisplayPort Spec

[poundsmack]

Apple has said that they will be integrating the Mini Display port into all future products.

Why can't we just stick with DVI? 🙁

this would be due to many reasons. maininly display port has many new capabilities in it, as well as forward compatibility for the new generations of TV's, monitors, etc...

here http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=Benefits+of+DisplayPort

here is even more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

"Advantages over DVI
Based on micro-packet protocol.
Allows easy expansion of the standard
Allows multiple video streams over single physical connection (in a future version)
Designed to support internal chip-to-chip communication
Can drive display panels directly, eliminating control circuits and allowing for cheaper and slimmer displays
Aimed to replace internal LVDS links in notebook panels with a unified link interface
Supports both RGB and YCbCr encoding formats
Auxiliary channel can be used for touch-panel data, USB links, camera, microphone, etc.
Fewer lanes with embedded clock reduce RFI.
Slimmer cables and a much smaller connector that doesn't require thumbscrews. Connector pins don't run the risk of bending if improperly handled.
The DisplayPort connector is easier to connect when guided only by touch."

 

[schneb]

Video Toslink?

What is stopping technology from developing a video Toslink? Seems to me that digital is digital and the light wave has more than enough frequency to handle the bandwidth needed for full video, audio, and user input miscellaneii. And not just the red spectrum is available, you have blue and green as well that can go down the same fiber pipe if needed. 😕

 

[Krevnik]

What is stopping technology from developing a video Toslink? Seems to me that digital is digital and the light wave has more than enough frequency to handle the bandwidth needed for full video, audio, and user input miscellaneii. And not just the red spectrum is available, you have blue and green as well that can go down the same fiber pipe if needed. 😕

Because it requires extra circuitry, parts and a means to generate the light pulses (that can handle the frequency of pulses you need).

Generating a 2Ghz clock in light sounds reasonable... but it isn't guaranteed to be cheap, because you would need an LED that can switch at 2Ghz speeds. Or in the case of multiple frequencies, multiple LEDs that switch. Then you need the receivers that can read all this stuff from the remote end and generate 2Ghz electrical pulses accurately. And you need to shove it all into the same laptop.

It is easier to just run copper traces straight to the port from the chip.

 

[billandy]

Very surprised by this. I can't believe Apple is actually giving something away for free.

i think this has a bit more to do with the business model that apple adopts. the mac os x software is just a bit short of £60 compared to price tag such as £200+ for a "usable" version of windows vista. and let's not forget that no apple consumer products-mac os x, ilife, iwork- comes with any serial number whatsoever. apple only generates serial numbers for its pro-line products such as aperture, final cut and etc. i think what apple wants to do here is to constantly show off its leadership in terms of product design and specifications making in the industry. not a bad business motion, after all apple's not as desperate as microsoft to squeeze out every single penny out of your pocket and it believes in people's good nature and the fact that if the product's good enough, no one will refuse to pay. but still in the end apple probably takes more money from their consumers by making them happy and satisfied.

 

[Mr Lizard]

next time, try to read my posts in context🙄

Fair enough, I misunderstood your post (as opposed to not reading it in context)

so uh you have a problem with them releasing the specs for free? i dont see how this is negative at all

or is your issue with the fact apple used mini display port on the new computers? well guess what, they did. i for one am glad apple did this and i really dont see how one could argue otherwise

I read that as you being glad Apple used a mini displayport, as opposed to being glad that they released the spec for free, but nevermind!

🙂

 

[Jiten]

If this plan works out, Apple will make a killing in adapters.

 

[dukebound85]

Fair enough, I misunderstood your post (as opposed to not reading it in context)



I read that as you being glad Apple used a mini displayport, as opposed to being glad that they released the spec for free, but nevermind!

🙂

haha yea i can see how it could be read both ways. my apologies🙂

 

[walshlink]

why not HDMI?

I know HDMI has royalties associated with it, but why do "new" standards need to be created when there are currents standards available? I am a HUGE Apple fan...but I opine that Apple's decision to use DisplayPort over HDMI was a step sideways...now I must buy a DisplayPort-to-HDMI cable...wtf? C'mon Apple play nicely with everyone else...

 

[VoR]

Were you thinking the same thing when you bought your hdmi equipped tv and devices? I was, along with a large list of other ridiculous issues that the clueless film and tech experts gave us.

 

[poundsmack]

I know HDMI has royalties associated with it, but why do "new" standards need to be created when there are currents standards available? I am a HUGE Apple fan...but I opine that Apple's decision to use DisplayPort over HDMI was a step sideways...now I must buy a DisplayPort-to-HDMI cable...wtf? C'mon Apple play nicely with everyone else...

your right! why reinvent the wheel. lets just convince all these companies ot simply stop charging royalties for tehir products. while were at it lets go to Adobe and ask them to open source Flash, or talk to MS about opening up DircetX, after all its way better than OpenGL in almost all respects 😉 . the fact is, if you start from the ground up with an open philosophy with industry wide suport in teh R@D as well as implimentation its just plain better. open collaberation on something new that some company cant torpedo patent is teh best way (torpedo patenting is when a company knows they have a pattent, lets the other company impliment there stuff, waits till they make money from it, and sues the hell out of them). its a sad world we live in some times.... other times its great! thanks Coffee and Prozac! (i kid)

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

But why would they ? Using Mini-DP - even a VESA approved one - would immediately exclude easy connectivity to the majority of existing hardware already out there with regular DP.

Again, there's no appreciable size advantage. A regular DP port is slightly wider, and slightly shorter than a USB port. Compared to Mini-DP, it is about 50% wider but with essentially the same vertical dimension.

In short, there's no incentive for anyone (except Apple) to use Micro-DP instead of DP, and several disincentives for doing so.

DP has barely even gotten widespread adoption, the only computer I can think of off the top of my head that uses it is the new Dell Latitudes. The biggest advantage Mini DP has over DP is that whereas DP is larger than a USB port, Mini DP is almost half the size of a USB port. Yes, using Mini DP would result in a need for adapters, but so does connecting a VGA monitor/projector into a DVI port or connecting anything non-DP into a DP socket. Since DP has barely been implemented, Mini DP is a good alternative being offered at a good time for other manufacturers that were going to switch to DP.

A headphone socket is a couple of wires and maybe a piece of fibre-optic cable. Just how much space do you think it needs ?

Clearly, nearly as much space as the Mini DP socket: http://static1.ifixit.com/igi/AUZYBwBSf4DGQiru.large

 

[Shiner]

open spec or not, it was still entirely idiotic for Apple to create a new display(s) that don't have legacy connections... For god sakes, how hard is it to put a dual-link DVI port on it?? There are a ton of potential users, both Mac and PC, that would want to use the new display. Why would Apple want to limit the market to just new Mac laptop users???

Thank you for this statement!! I agree completely. I would love to hook up my macpro, old macbook pro and my PC to a lovely Mac screen. Oh well save the 500$ and buy a samsung I guess. Which is probably what the majority of us will do.

 

[walshlink]

open spec or not, it was still entirely idiotic for Apple to create a new display(s) that don't have legacy connections... For god sakes, how hard is it to put a dual-link DVI port on it?? There are a ton of potential users, both Mac and PC, that would want to use the new display. Why would Apple want to limit the market to just new Mac laptop users???

DVI needs to be replaced, whether it be DP or HDMI...there is better technology out there that is not as limiting (in several areas) as DVI...

 

[matticus008]

Apple created the Mini DisplayPort spec, owns and controls it. But they're willing to let other people implement it on Apple's terms.

The terms are "here, you can use this connector on your devices free of charge". How oppressive.

And what's even worse, afaik they're only offering the license free for now, if the port becomes widely adopted there's nothing stopping them from making the license have fees in the future.

Of course there is, not least of which is self-interest; the license sets forth clear terms for termination. They could at any point stop offering the license to new OEMs and ODMs, but so what? If it becomes part of the VESA standard, it's a moot point. If it doesn't, then Apple will still need to bring third parties on board. Worst case scenario, you need a mini-to-regular DP adapter.

Firstly, because Apple is the poster-child of NIH-syndrome.

Quite the opposite, in fact. Some of the biggest standards got their first major consumer breakthroughs with Apple.

If this plan works out, Apple will make a killing in adapters.

How?

open spec or not, it was still entirely idiotic for Apple to create a new display(s) that don't have legacy connections... [...] Why would Apple want to limit the market to just new Mac laptop users???

Because that's what they do. When Apple decides to kill something or to make it happen, it does exactly that without looking back. USB, Firewire, ADC, consumer DVD burning, SCSI...you name it. For better or worse, that's how they operate, and it's how they manage to set the curve more often than not. And Apple has decided to go DisplayPort.

 

[funnyent]

awesome news! hope fully the 3rd party people will offer cheaper converters! 🙄

 

[drsmithy]

DP has barely even gotten widespread adoption, the only computer I can think of off the top of my head that uses it is the new Dell Latitudes.

There are several Lenovo models that also have it, along with displays from (at least) Dell, HP and Samsung and nVidia-based video cards.

The biggest advantage Mini DP has over DP is that whereas DP is larger than a USB port, Mini DP is almost half the size of a USB port.

That "advantage" being bugger all, given that basically no laptops are stretched for space in that direction, since it's essentially dictated by the size of the screen. Heck, even the Eee PC has room for a VGA port (probably twice the size of DP), and in the horizontal dimensions it makes even Apple's smallest laptop look like a hulking beast.

Yes, using Mini DP would result in a need for adapters, but so does connecting a VGA monitor/projector into a DVI port or connecting anything non-DP into a DP socket.

The difference is you won't need an adapter to connect two pieces of Displayport-bearing technology unless one of them is from Apple. Although given Apple's obsession with cluttering up people's desks with adapters, external drives, and cable spaghetti, most of their customers probably won't even notice.

Since DP has barely been implemented, Mini DP is a good alternative being offered at a good time for other manufacturers that were going to switch to DP.

Except, as noted, there's no real incentive to use Mini-DP over regular DP. The only real advantage Mini-DP has - size - is basically irrelevant.

Mini-DP is going to go the same way as ADC, for basically the same reasons. No-one wants, needs or cares about it except for Apple customers.

Clearly, nearly as much space as the Mini DP socket: http://static1.ifixit.com/igi/AUZYBwBSf4DGQiru.large

There is easily enough room on that board to move the audio adapters (or combine them into a single PCB-mounted unit), move the screwhole elsewhere, and replace the Mini-DP with DP.

 

[137489]

Awesome

Well, lets home the converters get created. I would really like one of these displays, so I can clean the clutter of some cables. But since I just build my solution - I may wait a while. plugging in 3 cables instead of 5, and having my display power/charge my White macbook. Sounds sweet.

Hopefully these displays start flying off the shelf, so Apple can lower their pricing. 😱 Of course this is 🙄

 

[Regular_John]

I agree - does no-one remember ADC?

I certainly do, I sold off my original easel style cinema display a few months back because I wasn't willing to drop $100+ for the adapter to hook up my macbook pro.

I still honestly don't know why apple would ditch the standard DVI port for a new port when they've gone through this song & dance once before.

 

[drsmithy]

Quite the opposite, in fact. Some of the biggest standards got their first major consumer breakthroughs with Apple.

Like what ?

Because that's what they do. When Apple decides to kill something or to make it happen, it does exactly that without looking back. USB, Firewire, ADC, consumer DVD burning, SCSI...you name it. For better or worse, that's how they operate, and it's how they manage to set the curve more often than not. And Apple has decided to go DisplayPort.

Yes, indeed. Apple's contempt for its existing customers when it comes to transitioning technology is well-known.

 

[drsmithy]

I still honestly don't know why apple would ditch the standard DVI port for a new port when they've gone through this song & dance once before.

There _are_ justifications for ditching DVI for DP. There just aren't any for inventing some proprietry connector just to try and annoy your customers into buying your expensive hardware.

 

[alphaod]

Still strikes me as backwards. Why not work with other manufacturers first to develop a standard, instead of coming up with one and hoping it gets picked up? Maybe someone smarter than me can explain this way of thinking.

But this is Apple. They think differently. 😛

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Very surprised by this. I can't believe Apple is actually giving something away for free.

Rather strange, eh?

<rant>
If you step back for a moment, it's actually quite an arrogant move. Lets see, the industry has come up with a standard, a new way of transmitting tons of video data digitally in a nice compact connector and they call it "Display Port". Apple comes along and says, "Oh my, that's not good enough for our products" and 'tweaks' the interface ever so slightly so as to render it proprietary. Then they come back a couple months later and "give away the spec". So why after the industry has decided upon a standard, this venerable Display Port connector, would they say "Oh yes Apple, your design is oh so superior to our design, we'll adopt it straight away". This after Dell and HP and other panel manufacturers have signed on to using Display Port as their new standard, the replacement for DVI.

I'm thinking that approximately 0 vendors will offer panels with a (hoopty doo) Mini Display Port connector. Furthermore, the thought of having to use yet another 30 dollar adapter to... wait here it comes... adapt my MINI display port to Display Port... um... wtf... just seems ludicrous. Really...

I will tell you one thing though... that MINI Display Port connector is truly MUCH sexier than a regular old display port connector. 🙄

I'm not sure why this irritates me so... but it does.
</rant>

 

[displaced]

On the subject of adapters...

I'm sat in my 'den' at the moment. Looking around, my gaming PC has its optical audio output running through a TOSLINK-to-Headphone Optical adapter... My Mac Mini's DVI output goes through a DVI-to-HDMI adapter before it gets to my TV. The iMac G5 has a mini-DVI adapter (did people complain about that? I can't remember) running to another DVI-to-HDMI adapter... Just a bit of context 🙂

DVI seems to have certainly reached its limits. The fact that we need dual-link DVI (essentially two ports logically gaffer-taped together) to run reasonably high-res screens underscores that fact.

DisplayPort is the VESA standard. I reckon there's a more-than-good chance of it becoming standard on displays over the next few years, just like DVI and VGA before it.

Now, for whatever reason, Apple devised a mini variant of DisplayPort. Whilst we can all hypothesise on whether standard DP would've been adequate, I can't help but think that there was a good engineering reason for the mini's creation. Connector design isn't easy -- especially at that size. A whole lot of time and money had to have been spent to thoroughly test the design to ensure that it was fully compatible with the DP specs – ensuring it could pass the same signals within the same tolerances and parameters as the DP standard. That's a lot of hard work.

Apple then make the fruits of that work available to all for free. And so they should: it's just a physical re-design of an existing design and protocol. Also, we should note that this is not ADC all over again. It might look that way, but it isn't. ADC was proprietary not only in physical construction, but also in what signals it carried and how it carried them. Expensive adapters were required to combine USB, power, video and audio into the ADC format. This is not the case for the mini DisplayPort, which is nothing more than a physical redesign of an existing VESA standard.

We'll certainly go through a rough patch until DisplayPort becomes more widespread. But we've been there before. I remember having parallel- and serial-to-USB adapters hanging off my gumdrop iMac G3 for a while. Not to mention those hours spent hunting for a decent USB keyboard to replace the Apple Pro keyboard of the era which I absolutely hated.

So, skipping forward a year or two... I can see DisplayPort monitors coming bundled with two leads - a DP-to-DP and a DP-to-miniDP -- very much how every firewire drive I've bought has come with both 6-to-6 and 6-to-4 pin leads (bless you, Sony and your iLink firewire-without-the-power malarkey).

But what about non-DP screens? Well, the DP spec seems to allow for analog and DVI streams... so surely that's just an adapter in the same manner as the DVI-to-VGA one which came with my Mac Mini... and I have one of which dropped in my laptop bag just in case. Surely I'll just bin the DVI-to-VGA adapter and drop in a miniDP-to-VGA one instead? Net gain/loss: 0.

Of course, this all depends on DisplayPort adoption. I suppose we'll see... but the industry's tended to gravitate towards simpler standards (PS/2, RS232, Centronics etc. all being absorbed by USB). With VESA defining the technical implementation of DisplayPort, its openness is ensured. Apple have contributed an additional connector form-factor (without breaking compatibility with the protocol/capabilities of DP) and made it available freely.

I'll say it again: This isn't *ADC: The Revenge.*

 

[rijiMacDij]

Ho-Hum

I agree it sucks that at the moment your brand new mac laptop will connect to hardly anything as far as external displays go.

The difference in size between the DP and Mini-DP connectors may be insignificant on today's product line-up but not having Mini-DP available would hinder Apple and other hardware manufacturers contemplating further reduction in size of portable products capable of connection to external displays.

I would rather have an Apple Inc that is willing to push boundaries and upset a few individuals occasionally in their quest for total world domination, (whoops, I meant in their desire to build superior total solutions), than a "yes Sir, anything you say, Sir" Apple Inc that would bow to the whims of mis-informed cretins and the rest of the computer building world.

I can't see any problem making a cable with a DP connector on one end and a Mini-DP connector on the other.

I think it's great that my display cable won't be screwed to my laptop, but I wish they would make a mag-safe connection for every port.

I can see an octopus cable with Mini-DP at one end and every other compatible display connection art the other.

I think Apple had no choice but to develop this connection alone. Can you imagine how long it would take for a couple dozen or so competing corporations to agree on anything, without trying to lock the standard up for themselves?

Just a bit of a half-asleep ramble, I think i will make my first coffee of the day now and start making sense....

 

[jaw04005]

I know HDMI has royalties associated with it, but why do "new" standards need to be created when there are currents standards available? I am a HUGE Apple fan...but I opine that Apple's decision to use DisplayPort over HDMI was a step sideways...now I must buy a DisplayPort-to-HDMI cable...wtf? C'mon Apple play nicely with everyone else...

HDMI has a "Deep Color" resolution limitation of 1920x1200 and a "Truecolor" resolution limitation of 2560x1600. Apple wants to build displays with higher resolution screens than the current 30" display. Therefore, they chose DisplayPort which has no resolution limit (theoretically).

DisplayPort is also an open standard and does not have licensing fees attached to it like HDMI.

I believe Steve Jobs mentioned the resolution limitation in an after-keynote question and answer session.

With that said, I do think Apple should ship mini-DisplayPort to full-size DisplayPort, DVI and VGA adapters with their professional notebooks and include the full DisplayPort on their next Mac Pro.

Additionally, a mini-DisplayPort to DVI adapter and mini-DisplayPort to DisplayPort adapter should come with the new 24" Cinema Display. Especially considering the premium price that comes with an Apple Display.

By the way, a lot of the same comments were made when Apple adopted DVI and mini-DVI.