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I knew this Mac Pro will be expensive, but I just searched and found list price on Anadtech for the graphics card: The W9000 is an astonishing $3999

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6137/the-amd-firepro-w9000-w8000-review-part-1

Surely that must put this new Mac Pro in the $10k+ category?
Twice what I had imagined.

1) Those are MSRP prices, not negotiated wholesale OEM.

2) Apple didn't say every MP will ship with top of the line FirePros, just that they would all ship with FirePros. Their price range is wide plus Apple could be commissioning its own versions.

People are making bizarre speculations. I guarantee their will be a $2500 or less entry price.
 
I don't understand what you're complaining about. If you use a Mac currently then you are already burning Blu-ray from an external drive. Just use that same drive.

My blu-ray burner is internal, thank you.

OK, now I didn't read through all twelve pages (or however much longer it gets while I type this), but has anybody taken a look at the specs thoroughly?

I'll break it down for you and let you be the judge. I'm assuming PCIe 3.0 architechture since the bandwidth claims exceed PCIe 2.0 by 100%.

Thunderbolt 2 Array: 20 GB/sec. That's equivalant to an x20 link width card on a PCIe bus. That's also half of the entire PCIe bandwidth for the entire computer just for that array.

Mini-PCIe Flash Connector (SSD): 1.25 GB/sec read / 1 GB/sec write. Assuming incompressible data for those claimed speeds, that requires an x2 (2 GB/sec) PCIe connection.

Graphics: Dual AMD FirePro cards. Now, if you've been paying attention so far you'll realize that twenty two of the maximum 40 lanes of the PCIe bus are taken, leaving eighteen to work with. Most video cards we've used so far have been x16 in link width. However here we run into a problem. There are not enough lanes left for two x16 cards so guess what? Those cards can only be running at x8 link width.

Now, anybody that knows PCIe 2.0 vs. PCIe 3.0 bandwidth knows that x8 PCIe 3.0 = x16 PCIe 2.0. The FirePro's current lineup consists of PCIe 3.0 cards though, so these are almost certainly running at x8, or half of their potential capability. Two AMD cards in crossfire at x8 can exceed a single AMD card at x16 in certain tasks, but there's another catch.

These are FirePro cards.

Let that sink in for a moment. Not only are they x8 link width maximum for the two cards, but since there is only a single PCIe controller, all slots have to operate on the same specification, i.e. PCIe 3.0, unlike the dual controller motherboards some PCs sport. Now factor in that these are workstation graphics cards, and not mainstream general purpose graphics cards and you've run into a problem.

The only people that are going to benefit from this setup are those with either a Mac Mini that need more or who use apps that make heavy use of OpenCL and/or are designed specifically for the environments for which these cards shine. Gaming, which is something most of us get the Mac Pro for due to its expandability, is going to suck on these. Sure they're nifty at first glance, but wipe away the drool for the case and you realize you're gimped out the gate for anything but rendering/editing.

Then there's the cost. If you think FirePro is cheap, think again. The closest spec card AMD has out right now is this one. Newegg has it for $1429. Now that listed card has only 4 GB VRAM and Apple's versions have 6 GB each. If the retail version, which is lesser costs $1400 conservatively, you can expect these, which are actually beefier in both spec and VRAM to cost more. In fact, these will hit your wallet more than the Xeon CPUs inside will.

Are we starting to get the bigger picture of what this machine is going to set you back and how much clutter its all-or-nothing external expandability brings with it? You'll need a RAID tower that supports Thunderbolt 2 if you want equivalant storage in a single no-muss no-fuss enclosure like you had in your Mac Pro of yore. Good luck finding that on the cheap.

Then there's the requisite optical drive if you want to use the new Pro as your media hub/HTPC as well. Some people have externals already, most current Pro owners do not, so figure that to be another expense.

RAM? You're going to pay a premium to max this puppy out. Remember, you now have half the slots of the top of the line Mac Pro from previous generations, so that means splurging for 16 GB sticks. And RAM prices are going up, not down. Tack that on as well.

Want extra displays? Well, your current crop of external monitors won't cut it with their connections unless they're already using Thunderbolt or MiniDisplayPort connections. So figure on getting more adapters.

Want to upgrade your internal storage? That's gonna cost you a pretty penny too since Mini-PCIe based SSDs are not that common, and are far from even remotely affordable.

One more thing to consider is that while this is an engineering feat to say the least, there's still the issue of SpeedStep. That "thermal core" is not only dissipating heat for the RAM, but one or two CPUs, and two GPUs. FirePro cards run rather hot. And does anybody know a Xeon that doesn't run hot on anything other than a typically hideously large passive heatsink? I didn't think so. And there's only one fan and it's pulling double duty as both intake and exhaust. Now the design may well support that, but I'm having trouble envisioning this machine maintaining full load and remaining relatively quiet. I just don't see it happening. I could be proven wrong, but thus far history has yet to pony up on designs like this kind. That outer casing is probably going to play a huge role in heat dissipation. Maybe it will do as well as the old Mac Pro's chassis did for that task - time will tell.

Audio wise, there's a slight conundrum: If I want to get audio to my AVR without routing my monitor/TV through said AVR and back to the computer, I'm going to have to shell out for a Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter just for that purpose as there is no S/PDIF onboard, which many people will sorely miss.

All in all it's a nice looking computer, and hey, it may even function halfway decently. But there are a ton of pitfalls in getting one, especially if you're already heavily invested in conventional expansion.

I'm not arguing that the design isn't cool - it is. But the lack of internal storage capability, all or nothing external options for expansion, and two GPUs that are pretty much "one trick ponies" make for a very non-compelling purchase for a great many people, especially those that already have a heavy gear investment.

I just thought I'd put that out for y'all to think about before speeding down that rather bumpy and expensive path.
 
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I'm thinking of things like Omnisphere too. Every update that thing gets seriously engorged in terms of its database.

The more tracks I do, the more tracks I want to do. It's not unusual for me to do giant guitar/synth choirs.

I eagerly await our new "Dark R2 unit".

Exactly, Omnisphere can be very demanding, especially lots of tracks of it. A box like this will be great for audio guys (except those foolish enough to keep buying Pro Tools PCI cards). When Logic 10 finally comes out, I expect they'll play up how well it will work on this machine - hopefully with opcnCL.
 
I highly doubt there will be a competitor putting out something that looks remotely like this because
1) the existing Motherboard PCI architecture will not allow for it.
2) heat dissipation is simple but tricky to get right and to dissipate heat from 3 shared heat sources with one cooling system is unheard of.
3) No one else thinks it's equitable to R&D a custom motherboard and PCI architecture
4) There's no expandability and the PC world has not adopted Thunderbolt wholeheartedly, yet.
5) it was probably announced so early because so many people were asking if Apple was killing off the line.
6) This is potentially a revolutionary design - and to think I thought the PC Revolution was over. The more companies that copy this design and market it, the more the revolution can happen.
7) And really, it's ok for competitors to start making knockoffs to satisfy the myriad of different needs by different users. Why does one company have to make one computer to satisfy every possible different users set up and workflow?

Didn't mean to contradict myself at end there, but it's food for thought :)

I was speaking of people who are impressed by the aesthetics, but don't necessarily need a 16 core machine and don't necessarily give a crap about Thunderbolt. It would be very easy to put a high end PC grade processor in a tube.

Aside from that, I don't think it would be very hard to clone what they've done at all, if there is any incentive to do it for a server-grade architecture, with perhaps a bigger, more noisy fan. Much harder to clone the iphone than the trash can, and it didn't take long.
 
probably because they were big unsightly things & apple's is anything but. PUTTTT ITTT AWAYYYYY!!:p

i want this Mac Pro and i don't know why.

I expanded on this quote of mine a few up and that is basically it, it was a huge tank of a case that took up so much room, if course I had 5TB if space among other things in it. Still huge. Regardless of this being trash can like, it is a nice looking trash bin.
 
There was a time when Steve Jobs made fun of such computers and most people on this forum laughed their butts off:


Image

And now, all of a sudden, it's okay when a desktop with a Mac Pro on it is going to look like this?

I think the average user of these will not need to plug in anything external, so they will get the "ultra clean" look. And of course Apple's desktops have always had a number of ports on the back so I don't see the big change here. Only a small % of users had slots loaded with PCI cards, which is the only thing that's being "forced" externally here that wasn't already there. Now, it may be that it's much more *expensive* to add internal storage now... :)
 
obi wan kenobi gets his hands on the new Mac Pro

obi wan kenobi gets his hands on the new Mac Pro
mp.jpg


mp2.jpg
 
my biggest concern with this is whether I could upgrade the GPU. My biggest problem with all the mac pro's have been whether I could upgrade the GPU as they always lagged behind the mainstream.

I've never really understood why that was, whether it was nvidia/ati not wishing to put both mac and windows code on the same card or because the mac cards had to have the bespoke video out etc.

For truly heavyweight 3d work I've always ended up going back to a windows box much to my dismay.

Back in the day, I was one of the few who bought a g4 cube, I saw it for what it was, and for me, yes, I could expand the storage with external stuff, or plug it into a network, but for me the big sell was upgradable gpu... despite the options being thin on the ground, well actually non existent!

I think also that this is important as the nature of pro desktops mean that we keep them for far longer, due to the high capital investment on them, thus for me the importance of being able to upgrade components to prolong life and protect my investment. When you're paying 15K+ for a seat of cad software you don't want to hear you can't use the most current version because your gpu is no longer supported a problem should it be the case that you have no option to upgrade that gpu.
 
5 years

First off you seem way too emotional about this piece of hardware. Think of this as the brain - CPU, GPU and memory. Storage no longer needs to be crammed into the same enclosure.

Put this "nice-looking", compact unit on a desktop and run a single T-bolt cable to a RAID array(s) NOT on your desktop - many options are already available. Stack the array with as many drives as you need. Here's just one example ...

http://store.apple.com/us/product/H...raid-system?afid=p219|GOUS&cid=AOS-US-KWG-PLA

Also, if you needed better software or hardware in the last 5 years then by all means look elsewhere! (I question how you run your business) Get a large bulky PC tower if that's your desire with plenty of power supplies and drive bays if you like and use Avid instead if you are not happy with the ridiculously low priced Final Cut. and also ...stop whining ...
 
I'm reading all the trashcan comments, the hate, the condescension, and I'm kinda chuckling to myself. You bozo savants were saying the same stuff about the iPad. Remember the feminine napkin comments? Remember the giant iPod comments? Remember the naysaying? Remember the condescension? Who had the last laugh then? How quickly you forget who really pwns you every time.
 
I don't get why so much energy was spent on compacting the physical size of the mac pro. that should not be a consideration. internal expandability and serviceability is much more important, and the previous gen mac pro design actually delivered those key features.

I like that expansion is not "limited to the space inside the enclosure" but it would be nice for the enclosure to be large enough so that you can get what you need in one box in a clean look without having to plug in external components. why reduce the size of the enclosure only to require external components for expansion? makes no sense.

And I am not saying this because I don't like change...when the previous gen mac pro was released from the one previous to that, I was actually impressed and excited since it delivered key features...killer hardware and easy expansion in one, clean, beautiful box. now we have a trash can where our main option for expansion is by plugging in external components. boooo
 
All in all it's a nice looking computer, and hey, it may even function halfway decently. But there are a ton of pitfalls in getting one, especially if you're already heavily invested in conventional expansion.

I'm not arguing that the design isn't cool - it is. But the lack of internal storage capability, all or nothing external options for expansion, and two GPUs that are pretty much "one trick ponies" make for a very non-compelling purchase for a great many people, especially those that already have a heavy gear investment.

I just thought I'd put that out for y'all to think about before speeding down that rather bumpy and expensive path.

You must be right. Apple clearly didn't think of any of this stuff. They don't know how many PCI lanes a graphic card needs. As we know, they never sweat the details and always release crippled products. And of course, nobody will ever release an external PCI expansion chassis that connects via thunderbolt. The only thing to do is keep releasing the same old design.

Also, if you're buying a new Mac Pro, that's a substantial layout of cash. I think spending a bit extra on a thunderbolt-PCI expansion chassis for your old gear won't make it that much more unpalatable of a cost.
 
I had a G4 Cube "back in the day," and that's the first thing that popped into my mind whilst watching the keynote today. I was planning to upgrade my '11 MBP next year; I think the Pro is the direction I'll head. I have a Thunderbolt display; the new Pro seems the obvious choice assuming it is priced at or below a high-spec retina MBP.

I guess we'll all wait and see!

I didn't have a Cube, but wanted one very badly back when they came out. This definitely reminds me of those days as well, I haven't seen an Apple computer I've been this excited about since then. Apple simply got...boring the last few years, that all changed yesterday! I have a 2009 Mac Pro that is still perfectly fine, but...ya know....:D
 
I'm reading all the trashcan comments, the hate, the condescension, and I'm kinda chuckling to myself. You bozo savants were saying the same stuff about the iPad. Remember the feminine napkin comments? Remember the giant iPod comments? Remember the naysaying? Remember the condescension? Who had the last laugh then? How quickly you forget who really pwns you every time.

well those comments are still valid. just because something is popular doesn't make it better. things like the ipad will sell well with the mainstream user who doesn't know how to use a computer, but this new mac pro will not be received well by computing enthusiasts.
 
I understand if you don't like it from an upgrade point of view and it's no way as accessible as the old MP But i personally love it! it's Apple of old i have the G4 Cube and it sits pride of place on my office desk i know it was a flop but it's classic Apple
the new MP pushes the boundaries it's what Apple do
you either love it or hate it
 
It certainly looks like something that the Empire built in Star Wars, lol.

I think it looks amazing, I'd love to get one, but it's going to be a bit $$$ too much.

Apple blew me away yesterday. I'm not even a Pro user and this thing looks awesome. I literally can't wait until the Fall for Mavericks and especially iOS 7.
 
I didn't have a Cube, but wanted one very badly back when they came out. This definitely reminds me of those days as well, I haven't seen an Apple computer I've been this excited about since then. Apple simply got...boring the last few years, that all changed yesterday! I have a 2009 Mac Pro that is still perfectly fine, but...ya know....:D

I agree
 
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