Apple Offers Developers a Closer Look at the New Mac Pro

[3282868]

I first started in IT selling Macs and PCs back around the Windows 3 release. Apple had dozens of varieties then. I started my year-long sales career selling 1-2 Macs a day and making a living. Often these were to publishing houses needing big monitors, Tektronix printers, etc. By the end of my year long sales career I was barely making ends meet by selling a truckload of the same in one day. The margins collapsed. They've probably recovered some. But if I had to sell computers again, I'd go for volume. Same as any company today - appeal to the masses. Same as Apple is doing now.

Time for professionals to use the common tools from the primary vendors and get the "pro" add-ons elsewhere. Where there's a need, someone usually fills it. I think many on this thread just need to look... many commenters are describing in detail their workflow and equipment and certainly a combination of these could work for most cases. Those that complain otherwise haven't looked or refuse to. IMHO.

Agree. I'll give it a go, sometimes you do need to think outside the box. If the price point is reflective of the hardware (great hardware but lack of internal storage and 1 CPU shouldn't drive entry level pricing beyond the current and dated Mac Pro's) to allow for affordable Thunderbolt external enclosures w/o breaking the $5k mark, I'll dive in. I'll make it back in little time, proving a good investment.

It's a good update, some of us are a bit cautious with the lack of upgradability in a professional workstation. It has great hardware now, what happens in 3, 4 or 5 years when the built-in graphics may fall behind, or needs replacing, or something else comes along that requires a larger PCIe express lane? Most of us have our system bays filled. I have 4x 2TB SATA II HDD's, internal LG Blu-Ray and a SSD drive. I would have to throw down at least $1000-1200 on a Thunderbolt enclosure to get the speeds for all my internal drives that USB 3 and FireWire don't support in addition to the system. I have an NAS tucked away, so I don't have cables and drives all over the place and many Pro's don't either.

I'll wait till the dust settles on pricing and more information is revealed.

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Please just move on. You've said your piece. Ruffled a few feathers here with your words. Had your opinions felt, and that's it. No need to add more fuel to the fire by saying your comments are more adult then everyone elses. They are just your opinions like everyone else here is stating their opinion too.

And the good part about an opinion is it's neither right or wrong.
.

I believe you should read the thread before jumping to conclusions as these two individuals have been personally attacking us while we have been trying to maintain a respectful thread. I'm not the one who threw the first stone, but I certainly ended it.

 

[oalabaster]

I gotta ask, if internal is the way to go because thunderbolt is not enviable on the newer model, then why do you even want it in your current computer?

Frankly, for my purposes, the lack of Thunderbolt would not matter if I have USB 3.0. However, I do have a MacBook Pro which does have Thunderbolt and USB 3.0, and its potential value would only depend on whether I ever wanted to add back up RAID drives that were external, and which could be shared with both computers.

All this discussion about the new MacPro really depends on your computing needs. If you need the fastest possible computing and storage, then living with external everything is the price you pay.

 

[peteelew]

[url=http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogodarkd.png]Image[/url]
Well, this certainly looks like a winner--like The Cube. Apple is going backwards. Their laptops are little more than iPads with a keyboard and every part on everything seems to be super duper glued together. Thundergarbage is a mess. It's back to the future with wired peripherals like an Apple II. Pretty soon Apple will be just a gadget manufacturer. Nobody is going to buy this mess. It's reminiscent of the destruction of Final Cut. What fool is making final decisions on this stuff? Just silliness.

At today's Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco, Apple offered a sneak peek at the upcoming Mac Pro, which features a radical tubular redesign along with Intel Xeon processors and ECC memory.

After the keynote, WWDC attendees were able to get a closer look at the Mac Pro and Engadget posted a number of photos as well of a video of the new Mac Pro.

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The new Mac Pro is a fraction of the size of Apple's last Mac Pro, which was originally released in mid-2010 with a small update in 2012. Though it is significantly smaller, the Mac Pro will include features like a full-sized HDMI connector, four USB sockets, six Thunderbolt 2 ports and two gigabit Ethernet ports.

YouTube: video​

Apple has not given an exact release date for the Mac Pro, but it is expected to debut later this year and it will be the only current Apple product assembled solely in the United States. MacRumors has additional photos of the Mac Pro provided by a developer.

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Article Link: Apple Offers Developers a Closer Look at the New Mac Pro

Well, this certainly looks like a winner--like The Cube. Apple is going backwards. Their laptops are little more than iPads with a keyboard and every part on everything seems to be super duper glued together. Thundergarbage is a mess. It's back to the future with wired peripherals like an Apple II. Pretty soon Apple will be just a gadget manufacturer. Nobody is going to buy this mess. It's reminiscent of the destruction of Final Cut. What fool is making final decisions on this stuff? Just silliness.

 

[the8thark]

You're fooling yourself if you think you, the so-called "professional" made Apple. Apple was/is made by the kabillion igadgets they sell every year. Saved them and made them what they are today. Nothing more, nothing less. Now quit your freaking crying, you sound like a 2-year old.

Actually you are wrong. Back in 1997 Jobs said Apple had 2 core markets. The creative professional and education. And the initial focus on those two markets saved Apple in the short term. The irevolution (iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad) all came later. And sure they made Apple mega profitable. But their core business is still creative professional and education. They just moved this more mainstream with iLife/iWork and all their recent education push too.

 

[3282868]

Actually you are wrong. Back in 1997 Jobs said Apple had 2 core markets. The creative professional and education. And the initial focus on those two markets saved Apple in the short term. The irevolution (iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad) all came later. And sure they made Apple mega profitable. But their core business is still creative professional and education. They just moved this more mainstream with iLife/iWork and all their recent education push too.

Spot on! Upon Jobs' return in 1997, he placed Apple's focus on a "quadrant" of product/markets:

The best example of how Jobs lived this tenet out was in 1997, when, after having returned to Apple as interim CEO, he cut 70% of the products that Apple was working on. In one meeting that September, Jobs drew a matrix with four quadrants. One was "Pro" and one was "Consumer," and underneath those were "Desktop" and "Laptop." Jobs also got Apple out of the printer business and killed off the Newton, its personal digital assistant. "This ability to focus saved Apple," Isaacson wrote, noting that in his first year back, Jobs laid off more than 3,000 people, which "salvaged the company's balance sheet."

 

[Lesser Evets]

Is there a CD drive?

I was hoping for a floppy drive.

 

[the8thark]

I don't understand all the whining on here.

Folks from Pixar, The Foundry, and Black Magic who have had early access to the machines are raving over it. That should be enough for anyone to realize that the new Mac Pro isn't a piece of junk.

People get so dramatic on these forums. "Oh I don't like the color, I'm switching to PC and posting it so everyone feels pity for me...".

This is very true. I can't see Pixar (arguable the best movie animation studio in the world) using the new Mac Pro if it didn't meet their high standards. Apple mean business with the new Mac Pro. The only real unknown is how "business" Apple went on the price too.

 

[teejaysplace]

Inevitable

This was always the direction that desktops were going — one central processing unit with unlimited options for external expandability. Originally, when Apple first started hinting at a grossly redesigned Mac Pro, I envisioned something like a set of legos blocks, where tower-based components could be stacked to to meet the user's needs. It would eliminate the hassle of keeping an enormous tower full of empty bays, which in all honesty, comprise the majority of desktops.

Apple's solution, however, provides a number of advantages over the old tower design. Anyone lamenting that they require loads of "internal expandability" has never had to lug a G5 Tower around for a location shoot. Nor have they had to crawl behind a desk to redaisy chain a set of harddrives. If you think that having external storage will create a rat's nest of cables, then you've never been behind an editor's desk — because between the cables going to external HD's, and the cables going to the AJA deck, and the cables going to the server, and the cables powering the monitors, and the cables running the mouse and keyboard — chances are EXCELLENT that it's already a rat's nest back there.

That being said, I think this solution, while a little out of the box for some, will precipitate the creation of more Thunderbolt-based third party components. Previously, there really wasn't much incentive for manufacturers to develop these products, as it was relegated to a niche market of MBP users. A slim dock that can sit under the monitor and allows for inclusion of hard drive bays and optical drives will, ultimately, be far more elegant (and potentially convenient) than sticking everything in an enormous, inaccessible tower that's buried under the corner of your desk. As with all tech, the prices will come down as the user base expands. If Apple manages to price this new machine competitively — and I think they will try — the appeal may be broader than expected.

 

[nutmac]

Perhaps, but what's wrong with Synology or ReadyNAS? Those companies make a superior product and Apple will be hard pressed to catch up anytime soon. The Time Machine capsule has basically not changed for years and remains just as unreliable as before?

I hate to sound superficial but mainly, aesthetics and ease of use. It is for this reason that I have Thunderbolt Display hooked up to MBP.

As for Time Capsule, I have 4th generation and it actually has been fairly reliable to me as well as others. I am aware of earlier generations having many heat and reliably issues, however.

 

[the8thark]

I was hoping for a floppy drive.

Yes a drive for one of these.

So sad it's not on the Mac Pro. . . .
Seriously just buy an external then you have it for all your computers now and in the future. I'll be doing this for my next Mac. I basically own the last iMac to ever have a disc drive.

 

[R3k]

I'm sorry, but what components inside a previous generation Mac Pro are upgradeable? The CPUs are not upgradeable, the video cards are not upgradeable (because there are no after market video cards for Mac Pro that aren't 2 generations behind their PC equivalents). The only upgradeable part of the previous Mac Pro are memory (same as new one) and hard drives/storage (same as new one). So what are you yacking on about?

I have upgraded various 2009 models with Hex Core processors, faster RAM, newer video cards, and more hard drives (in the CD/DVD slots).

Provided the new Mac Pro would have continued in the same direction, the current model Mac Pro's would likely have also been upgradable..at least with newer video cards and hard drives. Just the lack of TB would have been the dead end.

 

[the8thark]

I believe you should read the thread before jumping to conclusions as these two individuals have been personally attacking us while we have been trying to maintain a respectful thread. I'm not the one who threw the first stone, but I certainly ended it.

I didn't personally attack you. I just told you to move on, that's all. If you take it as a personal attack, that's up to you, but it was not in anyway attacking you. There's been a lot of name calling by many people in this topic. And my main point in what I said to you was don't add any more fuel to the fire. Just forget it and move on. I mean this in a good way, a fire dies with no fuel right? And a dead fire is what we all want so more constructive chat can occur.

I have read all 30+ pages here. That's how I was able to comment on your post. If I only skimmed the topic I would not have found it.

 

[3282868]

I didn't personally attack you. I just told you to move on, that's all. If you take it as a personal attack, that's up to you, but it was not in anyway attacking you. There's been a lot of name calling by many people in this topic. And my main point in what I said to you was don't add any more fuel to the fire. Just forget it and move on.

Ah, gotchya and excellent advice. Oh, and I didn't mean to infer you were insulting at all, was referring to the two individuals on the thread.

So yes, moving on

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Yes a drive for one of these.

Image

So sad it's not on the Mac Pro. . . .
Seriously just buy an external then you have it for all your computers now and in the future. I'll be doing this for my next Mac. I basically own the last iMac to ever have a disc drive.

It's funny, I have a USB 3.5" drive as some clients still use them. The 5" floppy discs bring me back to my childhood.

 

[snowmen]

I don't understand all the whining on here.

Folks from Pixar, The Foundry, and Black Magic who have had early access to the machines are raving over it. That should be enough for anyone to realize that the new Mac Pro isn't a piece of junk.

People get so dramatic on these forums. "Oh I don't like the color, I'm switching to PC and posting it so everyone feels pity for me...".

We never said it's a junk, we're just saying new Mac Pro is targeting on a very specific target of audience -> video/film editors.

So... who else uses Mac Pro aside from rich kids and video/film editors? It ranges a lot... But basically 1) professionals who needs more computing/graphic power than iMac, or Mac Mini for those who can't stand using computer inside a monitor, 2) people who need expansion ability that iMac and Mac Mini can't support, and 3) Temporary replacement of XServe.

This Mac Pro is ONLY good for the 1st group of people... Because if you believe external expansion is a good enough, then you would already switched to iMac/Mac Mini with your external solution! For sure TB2 will be coming to iMac and Mac Mini soon, so if you are willing to re-invest to TB2 - (whatever interface) cable or solution, then you don't even need Mac Pro unless you are also in the 1st group. Also, since there is no redundancy in any aspect of this product, it won't replace XServe. To make it worst, this "thermal core" hasn't really been proved in stability yet.

So the new generation of Mac Pro really shrinks its target audiences. And this is based on already known factors (2 AMD FirePro, Xeon, PCI-e Flash). I must say I may still buy this because I'm more of the 1st group, but I totally understand why people whine because I worked/contracted with 2nd and 3rd group of people/company.

 

[GermanyChris]

No, the Mac Pro has had two internal SATA ODD bays for a long time, even before the switch to Intel in 2006, the PowerMac G5 has had 2 ODD bays. The logic board has support for 6 SATA II connections. I have an LG Blu-Ray burner in one, and a 256GB OWC Mercury EXTREME Pro 6G in the other for my boot volume. As well, OS X has supported Blu-Ray movie playback with third party apps, I use MacGo's "Blu-Ray Player", and need to burn BD's for clients as HD video requires it (otherwise they'd be DL'ing ~50 GB's per disc, and most projects use 2-6 BD's depending). I also use Lightscribe labeling on client projects, a sharp and easy method.

I can't believe you got three votes for a comment that is completely inaccurate. It makes me wonder who these people are in this thread that are insulting professionals with misinformation and personal attacks and why they are here claiming to be superior in knowledge. Unreal. If you don't agree with someone, either do so respectfully, educate yourself on the facts before attacking others, or simply not at all. There's no need for this when most of you don't know what you are talking about.

Nope it only had one, mine had BluRay though (They were IDE until 4,1)

Ah, gotchya and excellent advice. Oh, and I didn't mean to infer you were insulting at all, was referring to the two individuals on the thread.

So yes, moving on

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It's funny, I have a USB 3.5" drive as some clients still use them. The 5" floppy discs bring me back to my childhood.

I do to. I paid 30 euro for it a couple months back for Flashing BIOS'

 

[3282868]

I do to. I paid 30 euro for it a couple months back for Flashing BIOS'

Ah the memories, days when 1.44MB was impressive

 

[firedownunder]

I've been using Apple displays and systems since the 90's, when the company was near bankrupt. Mostly photographers, designers, etc were loyal all the way through 2007 when iDevices/iOS were released. Apple then became Apple, Inc., and slowly power systems took a back seat to iPhones then iPads in 2010. Their tower (along w/ the iMac was the best selling Mac at ~$1499 during the G4/5 PowerPC days) went unchanged for three years while their CCFL LCD's that many professionals used for quality and IPS panels (my 2 23" CCFL LCD's lasted ~8 years) were slowly phased out for 1 display based on the panel used in their larger iMac. Tried Dell and EIZO displays after much research, but each had defects. I purchased 2 24" LED LCD's and for 2 ½ years had panels and power supplies replaced, even new displays. These are the same panels used for their then 24" iMac's, notorious for banding, uneven color, dead pixels, overheating. Apple just replaced both w/ 2 new 27" LED LCD's, reimbursed AppleCare and gave me free AppleCare, which is amazing!

However, Apple did cater to professionals long before iOS. We supported Apple long before iPhone fashionista's, college students with MacBook's or the Joe-sumer Windows switcher with iMac's. Professionals such as Annie Leibovitz used PowerMac's/Mac Pro's and dozens of 30" CCFL LCD's, yet left when Apple began pulling away from her market (she did a few HP commercials a bit ago). It's great Apple has made billions in such a short time from almost nothing, but it's cost them a good deal of money in the pro market. My friend is a film editor and a designer for the Final Cut Pro X team, and informed me that Apple wants to bring back the pro market as it may be small, but they invest tens or hundreds of thousands per business on hardware and software upgrades.

No argument with anything you say, but I stand by my original post (which wasn't aimed at you). Igadgets made Apple the behemoth they are today. Consumers need to realize and accept the fact that companies exist for one thing, and one thing only, to make money. When push comes to shove they don't give 2 ****** about you if it's not making them bank. Period. Money follows money. Stockholders wouldn't have it any other way. On another note, how about everyone wait 'til they have all the facts before throwing hissy fits. People just assuming they can't upgrade the gpus, etc., without ever seeing one. Chill out.

 

[3282868]

I have upgraded various 2009 models with Hex Core processors, faster RAM, newer video cards, and more hard drives (in the CD/DVD slots).

Provided the new Mac Pro would have continued in the same direction, the current model Mac Pro's would likely have also been upgradable..at least with newer video cards and hard drives. Just the lack of TB would have been the dead end.

Hey, does anyone know if a PCIe graphics card can be thrown in if/when the built in ATI graphics may become obsolete? I'm sure it'll conflict, especially for those who need nVidia CUDA cards. Would be nice if you could disengage the onboard when needed.

 

[Woyzeck]

Apple's solution, however, provides a number of advantages over the old tower design.

I understand this Thunderbolt idea, but I still don't see the advantages. While I agree that a small percentage of customers (those that handle huge amounts of data regularly) will benefit from the high transfer rates, all others will be happier with the much more affordable USB3 peripherals. But for the Mac Pro with the high-performance target group the decision to push Thunderbolt is understandable, at least performance-wise. So it's an ok on that.

But what I'll never understand is why people would prefer external storage over internal storage. All these externals will always be slower than internal storage, simply because the internal bus systems are performing better. External components are more expensive, less reliable, slower and less convenient (cables, additional power supplies, heat, noise, ...). Besides providing the ability to move them around there's really no advantage over an internal storage, just disadvantages.

 

[GermanyChris]

I understand this Thunderbolt idea, but I still don't see the advantages. While I agree that a small percentage of customers (those that handle huge amounts of data regularly) will benefit from the high transfer rates, all others will be happier with the much more affordable USB3 peripherals. But for the Mac Pro with the high-performance target group the decision to push Thunderbolt is understandable, at least performance-wise. So it's an ok on that.

But what I'll never understand is why people would prefer external storage over internal storage. All these externals will always be slower than internal storage, simply because the internal bus systems are performing better. External components are more expensive, less reliable, slower and less convenient (cables, additional power supplies, heat, noise, ...). Besides providing the ability to move them around there's really no advantage over an internal storage, just disadvantages.

Naaa the external over TB will be just as fast or faster…A nice 6 or 8 Bay raid box will be just fine..

The issue is you need to buy a nice 6 or 8 bay raid box on top of your new computer..

 

[snowmen]

Hey, does anyone know if a PCIe graphics card can be thrown in if/when the built in ATI graphics may become obsolete? I'm sure it'll conflict, especially for those who need nVidia CUDA cards. Would be nice if you could disengage the onboard when needed.

I'm sure you'll be fine with the top ATI FirePro card... The setup will probably last you 5~6 years and by that time you'll need a new CPU/Motherboard for a newer generation graphic card.

But paying top dollar for the current best graphic card is stupid... You will only be running the same speed as mainstream desktop graphic card in 2 years, or top iMac mobile graphic card in 3 years... So if you're thinking what I'm thinking as well: Buy a less expensive graphic solution for the new Mac Pro, then we may run into the need of upgrading graphic cards before replacing the system... That s**k...

 

[firedownunder]

Actually you are wrong. Back in 1997 Jobs said Apple had 2 core markets. The creative professional and education. And the initial focus on those two markets saved Apple in the short term. The irevolution (iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad) all came later. And sure they made Apple mega profitable. But their core business is still creative professional and education. They just moved this more mainstream with iLife/iWork and all their recent education push too.

I didn't say "save", I said "made". As in billions. I love my Mac Pro, but the irevolution is what made them what they are today. And loyalty, while a nice concept, is a pipe dream. Doesn't mean they can't serve the pro market (and I do feel for you guys), but money rules.

 

[Woyzeck]

When push comes to shove they don't give 2 ****** about you if it's not making them bank. Period. Money follows money. Stockholders wouldn't have it any other way.

No argument with that, just that companies that are successful in the long term do more than just optimize short term revenues. It's all about money, but there are many intangible assets that count (image, ...). If a company just follows the stakeholders' short-time interests it will sooner or later die.

I think that was one of the things that Steve Jobs really understood. He took bold decisions that the usual board of directors never had the balls for.

 

[whiteboytrash]

This is what I don't get.
Lots of people complaining about lack of internal storage options.

I shuffle quite a few terabytes a day. 3TB worth of data from 7200 rpm drive to another internal SATA drive takes about 12 hours. There are weekends where I move 9-15 TB of files. It takes a loooong time.
They are handicapped by slow rotating platter speed of the HDD.

When I went to external SSDs and Thunderbolt, my time copying and shuttling files dropped considerably. 30 Gigabytes of data. 30GB takes 1 minute 30 seconds from my internal SSD of my macbook to an external SSD via Thunderbolt. This is using SATA6 "legacy" controllers. Now imagine PCIe SSD to 1GB/sec Thunderbolt RAIDS that actually exist and ship today (Pegasus).

1.25GB/sec. That is smoking fast.

So the whole argument of internal drive bays. They take up more power, generate more heat, and copying them off your workstation to even a 10Gbe SAN is slow. When you work off fast external storage, you unplug and give your office mate the external drive and you are done.
Storage requirement is also getting bigger and not smaller. I have 40TB and I burn about 2TB a month on drives. Drive docks, external enclosures make it much more feasible to move and archive data. I treat 2,3,4TB drives like consumable.

So people who want a 3 bay drive in a Mac Pro? What are they going to do with that? 1 drive is for OS. 2 drive, what you're gonna stripe two 4TB drives which is scary in itself or pack a bunch of 2&3TB drives in an enclosure that is RAID 5 fault tolerant. I take the parity tolerance of RAID any day of the week.

Putting a bunch of drives internally. That is not very pro to me. Most pros work with small system drives (256GB and smaller). A full CS suite and FCPX build takes up less than 40GB of storage.

If something fails, move your project onto another machine quickly. Smaller system drives also makes it easier for imaging, cloning, provisioning builds. And pretty much everything works off the network or SAN.

Thunderbolt is the future. I can't imagine editing a 4K video off platter drives in an internal drive bay when more elegant, faster, more mobile solution exists. a feature 4K film will take up 50TB (Girl with Dragon Tatoo case study). NO matter how you slice it, you wont get a 50TB internal storage system. You will be eventually using external I/O regardless.

Excellent post.

 

[avkills]

Oh yeah? Backed by Intel? Where's RAMBUS now?

It's called PCI express nowadays.

-mark