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I'd put a resounding, 'Yup" next to that one. :apple:

I doubt there will be any major repercussions at all. Even if it manages to bring game developers back on the Mac OS side, you have to question Apple's LATE response to the market. What they revealed yesterday at the Keynote was something they should have jumped on about 1 or 2 years ago.

Palmer was right and so were the others regarding Apple's lack of GPU power to handle VR. Of course, when it comes to gaming, I think most people will go with PC or game consoles as they're much cheaper.

Think about it. Do you realize how expensive it is to buy an iMac or Macbook Pro and buying an external GPU as well for gaming? These machines were built for lack of upgradability except for RAM. For VR development, the external kits would be handy. But for a consumer? It would be crazy expensive. Customers, I suspect, are better off having a modular PC or Mac to be able to upgrade for gaming as time goes buy.

The iMac Pro, so far, has the specs to do it but the chassis design doesn't seem to be right for that. And it's $4,999 for starters which is insane. I'm sure anyone who does development would jump on that machine which may not be completely upgradable as the next Mac Pro which is supposedly modular in design ( something that should've been done a LONG time ago ).

Some of the new iMacs with Kaby Lake chips are questionable. Having an external GPU is a good idea for starters but should've been done earlier.

Apple has a LOT of catching up to do.
 
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Apple is and never will be interested in games. They are not looking to help gamers make the ultimate game machine nor are they looking to even compete with any PC offerings. They are just entering the VR market with the minimum specs required. That will be satisfactory for 95% of all developers in this space to at least consider Mac over PC. Mission accomplished.

I do a lot of editing in 4k for my work, something an 8 core mac pro with dual d700 struggles with at times? Why cant they make an ultimate Mac Pro within oh lets say the last 4 years that doesn't give me the coloured spinning wheel or constant fails within Adobe After Effects whilst rendering compositions! Its not always about gamers, its simply about raw power and cost. Neither of which yesterdays announcement delivered for me.
 
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Apple is and never will be interested in games. They are not looking to help gamers make the ultimate game machine nor are they looking to even compete with any PC offerings. They are just entering the VR market with the minimum specs required. That will be satisfactory for 95% of all developers in this space to at least consider Mac over PC. Mission accomplished.

More games are developed for consumption on iOS than for any other platform on the planet, they are interested in games, why wouldn't Apple also want that for the Mac?! These eGPU's are a first step, you get to retain your slim hardware for portability and then when you are fixed use this box for graphics intensive applications, be it gaming only, VR or both.
 
I do a lot of editing in 4k for my work, something an 8 core mac pro with dual d700 struggles with at times? Why cant they make an ultimate Mac Pro within oh lets say the last 4 years that doesn't give me the coloured spinning wheel or constant fails within Adobe After Effects whilst rendering compositions! Its not always about gamers, its simply about raw power and cost. Neither of which yesterdays announcement delivered for me.

In similar boat, but do believe official eGPU support with NVIDIA cards will make Adobe & AE better in future on Mac. No official announcements for new MacPro's, but waiting until 2018 before I make my final decision. Still find a using a tweaked and upgraded Mac Pro 5,1 better than the trash can if you do not need to rely on Thunderbolt for I/O.
 
I really wonder why Apple is sticking with AMD...

For example, in the same price/performance bracket the competition is Nvidia's 1060 and the power numbers are scary...
Radeon goes to 200W versus GeForce 120W
And the Nvidia card performs a little bit better, while offering CUDA too.

While I realise that Apple is a proponent of OpenCL, the power consumption and thermal difference that exists should have been enough to tilt the balance from one to the other.

If the iMac manages to dissipate the RX580 200W they could have dissipated the heat of GTX 1070 or 1080 card, top of the line GPUs.

The Conspiracy nut in me wonders if Apple isn't keeping AMD, so the threshold for an in house GPU solution, would be easier to reach.

Management conflicts. Apple doesn't like vendors who don't work for them.

A post in that link seems to indicate that external eGPU devices are supported with Thunderbolt 2 running the Beta, I have a 2015 rMBP that has the ports, SDXC slot, storage and RAM I use/need but obviously I could do with some beefier graphics....

The UK pricing is shocking by the way, 599 USD in no way works out at £799, even if you account the worst currency fluctuations in 25 years it is still over priced by £100!

Stay tuned, we're preparing a guide on building your own eGPU development kit.
 
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anyone know if this external GPU takes over as the video out for the laptop entirely or only apps designed specifically for it. It would be awkward if only some apps had their video out the external gpu and the desktop remained on the laptop display.
 
Oculus VR founder Palmer Luckey was asked in 2016 about the possibility of the Oculus platform ever supporting Mac OS X; his response was that it depends on if Apple ever “releases a good computer."


Me thinks there may be consequences and repercussions.

Valve has been planning on supporting MacOS and Linux from day one with SteamVR. Palmer Luckey had nothing to do with it.
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And in a concurrent related announcement, Steam game platform creator Valve also revealed in a blog post on Monday that it is making a beta version of its SteamVR software development kit available on Mac, offering players the same 360-degree, room-scale tracking as the Windows and Linux variants.

The only reason I own a PC is because of SteamVR and the HTC Vive. It is the best purchase I've made since the original iPhone (the HTC Vive).
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A what is the difference between VR hardware and gaming hardware? With an external GPU enclosure you can game at 1080p at 60fps on a thin and light laptop. The only bottleneck is the CPU inside the laptop.

VR requires a Nvidia 970 or AMD 480 at the absolute minimum because you have to run two 1200p OLED panels at 90hz to avoid motion sickness. There's also a lot of calculations outside the visible area of the panels because the speed at which you turn your head has to already be rendered. It's more resource intensive than 4k I believe. I have a Nvidia 980ti, Intel Core i7 6700, and 32GB of RAM and VR on an HTC Vive runs ok for me. I really need to upgrade to a 1080ti.
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It's such a shame Apple decided to do this because VR! F VR we need games not VR. Apple make me mental mad that they're putting money on the wrong horse.

You obviously haven't tried real VR. I haven't touched any of my regular 2D games since April of last year when I picked up the Vive.
 
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Will this work with the new iMac and will the eGPU drive the iMac display, or does it just power an external display?
 
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No is the simple answer. Thats still not even a 1:1 conversion of $ - £.

Who said it would or even should be a 1:1 conversion? Apple prices depending on what a market can afford, exchange rates, creating special versions (think plug sockets) etc. Apple Music launched at an equivalent of about $2 a month in India and $5 a month in Brazil, Indonesia and Thailand.

Off the top of my head we in Britain pay more for fuel, housing (rent and house prices), cigarettes and cars than the States. We pay less for phone contracts, PPV TV, short haul flights (think within the EU).

Global pricing strategy isn't a simple 1 size fits all game unfortunately.
 
Um, yes you can! Custom build PC, Windows 10, in a kickass case.



So... you're saying that's a good thing?

I have not seen a custom built Windows laptop that can hold a candle to the build quality of a Macbook, from a hardware and chassis perspective. Examples of a custom built Windows laptop that is the equal or better of a Mac?
 
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The regular Macbook doesnt have T3 correct?

I am still contemplating if i should upgrade my mid 2012 Air to a Macbook or a Macbook Pro, i dont want fans but external GPU support seems cool in the long run...
 
External GPU support is a long time coming. It's great for a laptop - when at home - you've got your biffy eGPU - the benefits of a desktop PC but still mobile without eGPU. Cheaper than buying a desktop PC and a laptop..

Not just cheaper, you only need to maintain one system.

This is the problem with my Playstation today. Whenever I turn it on, which is not that often, I need to update the OS, and then I need to install update patches for the games. Takes half an hour before I can even play. And then I want to check a web page for some hints, and then I need to switch to another computer.

I just want everything in one system, and if it is not feasible to have high-end graphics in a laptop, just make an external box that takes care of it.
 
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It's such a shame Apple decided to do this because VR! F VR we need games not VR. Apple make me mental mad that they're putting money on the wrong horse.

I disagree. Apple has cared about gaming for a long time.

The thing is, gaming isn't really a huge requirement for the mac's core customer-base. It's interesting, actually, because gaming definitely is a huge requirement for iOS's core customer-base, and I think most high-end games developers would agree that, in the mobile space, iOS is king of gaming. That's why Apple are starting to create their own, in-house GPUs and why they just split the AppStore in to "games" and "everything else".

But the underlying technical challenges are the same: how do you provide more horsepower without killing your thermal or power-management architecture?

Apple's answer has multiple parts:

- Replace OpenGL with a new graphics API (Metal). As they explained, the original Metal API reduced OpenGL-related driver overheads by 10x, and the new Metal2 API introduces refinements such as argument-buffers which can supposedly reduce those overheads by another 10x.

- Move to SoCs. In an SoC, the CPU, GPU, RAM and controllers are all packaged on to a single die, as if they were a single chip. You can't swap out the individual components, but in return for that you get to specialise and use faster, non-standard buses and add custom logic to coordinate power management and whatnot. Also, the CPU and GPU can share RAM, meaning less copying of data and smarter allocation of resources.

On iOS, Apple controls all aspects of the hardware and has lots of freedom about which IP to integrate and how to customise it. On the Mac, Apple builds customised configurations of more-or-less off-the-shell components. Intel isn't going to build them a Core i7 chip with an IMG or Nvidia graphics core inside -- they get Iris Pro, and that's it. If they want to add faster graphics, they need to again look through the catalogue of off-the-shelf components for a chip which is compatible with the i7's PCIe interface, and which meets their price, size, thermal and power constraints. It's a chain of compromises. As Nvidia (and, of course, Apple's iOS devices) have been showing everybody, though, there is no reason why SoC GPUs necessarily have to suck. If the Mac did go to ARM one day, Apple would have the flexibility to integrate much more powerful graphics IP directly in to the core. That's probably the ultimate goal -- faster graphics, in a smaller and more power-efficient device.

SoCs have the obvious downside that they require lots of engineering effort to integrate, so they aren't user-replaceable or upgradeable. That means a new and demanding technology like VR can just pop up, your roadmap didn't plan for it, and you don't have a quick and easy solution for your customers. Discrete and external GPUs are the stopgaps which fill that hole.

Discrete GPUs are more powerful and convenient, but they are large, power-hungry and still not user-upgradeable. External GPUs require more flexible and higher-throughput I/O, which is one of the reasons why Apple have been pushing Thunderbolt.

There is no easy answer to this problem, but Apple have a good technical roadmap to provide rich graphical apps and games on the Mac, which I believe is inspired by their success from iOS. By shrinking and tightly integrating the components, they can build extremely powerful computers which fit in to smaller and lighter enclosures while being extremely power efficient.
 
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This is a game changer (pun intended). I think Apple is finally getting serious about gaming.

Even if Apple got serious with gaming, the other big issue is the developers side. My past experiences have shown me that gaming companies have faster fixes/updates for windows than for mac. Unfortunately, until that also changes, big hardware support isn't going to do much for the frustration.
 
Even if Apple got serious with gaming, the other big issue is the developers side. My past experiences have shown me that gaming companies have faster fixes/updates for windows than for mac. Unfortunately, until that also changes, big hardware support isn't going to do much for the frustration.
Well at least you know the 3 games Valve is releasing in 2017/2018 for VR will be supported on the Mac and updated frequently. My experience with them is that they are super quick to address with their software.
 
Valve has been planning on supporting MacOS and Linux from day one with SteamVR. Palmer Luckey had nothing to do with it.
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The only reason I own a PC is because of SteamVR and the HTC Vive. It is the best purchase I've made since the original iPhone (the HTC Vive).

I tried out the Vive last Fall and was quite impressed with its capabilities. There is NO way any of the current Macs could handle it, let alone iMac Pro or better. I almost was going to order a new PC and the Vive because I do digital 2D digital art and traditional, and the digital brush in a VR environment is catching on. I know because some creative professionals are jumping into this technology as a tool to create visual imagery and 3D illustration. A recent ImagineFX magazine had an article on that, I believe, from last month. Fascinating.
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Will this work with the new iMac and will the eGPU drive the iMac display, or does it just power an external display?

My understanding is that, it's supposed to work with the new iMacs or laptops powering the machine itself, not the other way around. Think of it as an add-on. Kind of like what SEGA did with the Genesis buy adding a 32X on top of it, creating 32-bit capabilities over a 16-bit machine.

Oh, and great nickname. I have a studio named just that except it's 'inner' :). But it's cool to see another studio similarly named like mine. Although I do visual arts.
 
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Why couldn't be a different company than Valve? Valve is **** at doing just about anything with macOS and Linux, Steam barely works at all on those platforms and is lacking features that have been available for YEARS.
 
Why couldn't be a different company than Valve? Valve is **** at doing just about anything with macOS and Linux, Steam barely works at all on those platforms and is lacking features that have been available for YEARS.

Who else would they work with - its either Valve or Oculus...
 
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