Apple Offers Refund After British Boy Spends $2500 on In-App Purchases in 15 Minutes

[flat five]

And that's why I've also included "www.apple.com/feedback" in most of my replies. People are apt enough to complain in a forum, perhaps they should apply that same energy and submit it directly to the company responsible for developing the product. I guarantee 90% of the people complaining in this forum have not once submitted anything to www.apple.com/feedback

re:feedback.com..
i'm pretty sure apple is very well aware of what's going on.. it's their system.. they designed it.
plus, they just finished a 2year lawsuit with this stuff.. me saying something there is irrelevant..

besides that though, my complaints are more geared at this thread.. this is where i see the biggest problem.. and if these bigger problems can be solved amongst us, then the secondary problems (scams etc.) will lesson automatically..

everybody thinks everybody is stupid.. and the people they think are stupid thinks the other person is stupid.. and on it goes.. we are all stupid.. as a whole, that's how we see ourselves..

we are taught a certain way.. read a book- write a report on it.. memorize this- tell me the right answer.. i mean, that's the proper way to learn right?

so then, the population is saturated with content showing how stupid people are.. and we learn about our culture that way.. reality shows, the news, sitcoms, youtube and tv shows which farm youtube for the best content of the day.. look. we ALL have youtube moments in our lives.. and there are a lot of cameras out there.. odds are, enough people are going to be caught doing stupid stuff on tape that day to fill an hour slot on tv..

but the way we feed on it.. they way we were taught to feed on it is we watch it then give our report.. "people are stupid" A+...

and that very behavior is evidenced in this thread.. way too many oneliner "bad parents".. "idiots".. type of things going on.. which shows me, they saw the headline, had a gut reaction, and gave their report..

but it's like nobody (not everybody obv) allows for a tiny little pause in there between seeing the headline and reporting.. this has happened to reportedly 22million people.. we have enough people in this thread - on a tech forum- telling of it happening to them.. this has happened to a far greater % of the population than should be required for nearly everyone to raise a red flag..
but it's not.. and that's because we're all stupid.. i mean, of course this is happening.. bunch of idiots running around out there.. it's our own damn fault (well, theirs anyway)

this could of happened to anybody in the right situation.. a n y b o d y..
you're not smarter than them.. you got lucky and dodged the scam but it was right there in your pocket all along..



if you love apple so much then you have to play a bigger role.. it's not bad of you to question apple and call them out when they are wrong.. that's a good thing to do.. that's you parenting apple and it's what needs to happen.. i mean me personally, i'm along the lines of "look mr. apple.. i am happy to pay your apple tax provided you continue producing kickass computers and software.. but this sneaky crap you're pulling with the app store is going too far.." and that's that..

but the only way we can start to make stuff like this happen is by -- quit thinking everybody is stupid.. it's toxic and it hurts us all.

 

[CQd44]

I guess I'm lucky. I made my iTunes account back in 2004 when they didn't require a credit card #. To this day, I haven't ever needed to buy anything from iTunes or the app store so they still don't have my credit card information.

It seriously requires a credit card number?

 

[MrDc2]

re:feedback.com..
i'm pretty sure apple is very well aware of what's going on.. it's their system.. they designed it.
plus, they just finished a 2year lawsuit with this stuff.. me saying something there is irrelevant..

besides that though, my complaints are more geared at this thread.. this is where i see the biggest problem.. and if these bigger problems can be solved amongst us, then the secondary problems (scams etc.) will lesson automatically..

everybody thinks everybody is stupid.. and the people they think are stupid thinks the other person is stupid.. and on it goes.. we are all stupid.. as a whole, that's how we see ourselves..

we are taught a certain way.. read a book- write a report on it.. memorize this- tell me the right answer.. i mean, that's the proper way to learn right?

so then, the population is saturated with content showing how stupid people are.. and we learn about our culture that way.. reality shows, the news, sitcoms, youtube and tv shows which farm youtube for the best content of the day.. look. we ALL have youtube moments in our lives.. and there are a lot of cameras out there.. odds are, enough people are going to be caught doing stupid stuff on tape that day to fill an hour slot on tv..

but the way we feed on it.. they way we were taught to feed on it is we watch it then give our report.. "people are stupid" A+...

and that very behavior is evidenced in this thread.. way too many oneliner "bad parents".. "idiots".. type of things going on.. which shows me, they saw the headline, had a gut reaction, and gave their report..

but it's like nobody (not everybody obv) allows for a tiny little pause in there between seeing the headline and reporting.. this has happened to reportedly 22million people.. we have enough people in this thread - on a tech forum- telling of it happening to them.. this has happened to a far greater % of the population than should be required for nearly everyone to raise a red flag..
but it's not.. and that's because we're all stupid.. i mean, of course this is happening.. bunch of idiots running around out there.. it's our own damn fault (well, theirs anyway)

this could of happened to anybody in the right situation.. a n y b o d y..
you're not smarter than them.. you got lucky and dodged the scam but it was right there in your pocket all along..



if you love apple so much then you have to play a bigger role.. it's not bad of you to question apple and call them out when they are wrong.. that's a good thing to do.. that's you parenting apple and it's what needs to happen.. i mean me personally, i'm along the lines of "look mr. apple.. i am happy to pay your apple tax provided you continue producing kickass computers and software.. but this sneaky crap you're pulling with the app store is going too far.." and that's that..

but the only way we can start to make stuff like this happen is by -- quit thinking everybody is stupid.. it's toxic and it hurts us all.

I didn't say people were stupid. I said that there is a proper feedback form on the Apple website where a team of people paid by Apple reviews the information and makes changes based on how much feedback it receives. To assume makes an ass out of u and I. The problem is like I said earlier; 90% of the people here have not submitted feedback. Meaning 90% of people just assumed that Apple doesn't care and have not told Apple how they feel and have not told Apple HOW they want it. "But Apple already knows.. " - Yeah well how do you know? I don't. But neither do you and if you actually go to that page and takes three minutes out of your life then you can gripe about how Apple didn't listen. But don't complain that Apple didn't listen when you didn't even say anything to begin with. That's just ridiculous.

 

[sweetchilliphil]

The problem isn't bad parenting or even developers being "tricky". The parents, more often than not, have no idea how to set things up. Children can't differentiate between virtual money and actual money as of yet. Most likely because parents haven't taught them the concept, or their simply too young.

It is a simple affair to set this kind of thing up to stop any child from making accidental purchases. I own multiple apple devices and let children play on them a lot. Not once in my life has any child ever made this "accidental" purchase.

Hey parents. Look under restrictions, turn it on. Now, before you ever type in a password, CHECK what the child is downloading. Stop watching the football or talking to your neighbours for 3 seconds. Cancel the purchase, check it, and reinstate it again. Or, this is what I do. COMPLETELY DISABLE IT. It's foolproof. You can't possibly fail. It has nothing to do with multiple linked devices or any crap like that but pure technological ignorance. It's not stupidity, it's just an age gap or laziness in my opinion.

The only reason I can see why apple paid for this in the end was PR and pity. Otherwise, parents, please. Educate yourselves and get a handle on your tech. Too often I see or hear parents that simply don't know how to set things up for their kids, and then blame the company for it.

 

[Idefix]

This whole problem is the result of bad design by Apple--their settlement admits it right out loud and in front of the whole world. If Apple thought they could get away with it, no way would they have settled.

It's just like the Maps debacle--arrogance and bad design all rolled together.

Luckily enough, they're honest enough to admit it, in both cases.

 

[globalist]

re:feedback.com..
i'm pretty sure apple is very well aware of what's going on.. it's their system.. they designed it.
plus, they just finished a 2year lawsuit with this stuff.. me saying something there is irrelevant..

besides that though, my complaints are more geared at this thread.. this is where i see the biggest problem.. and if these bigger problems can be solved amongst us, then the secondary problems (scams etc.) will lesson automatically..

everybody thinks everybody is stupid.. and the people they think are stupid thinks the other person is stupid.. and on it goes.. we are all stupid.. as a whole, that's how we see ourselves..

we are taught a certain way.. read a book- write a report on it.. memorize this- tell me the right answer.. i mean, that's the proper way to learn right?

so then, the population is saturated with content showing how stupid people are.. and we learn about our culture that way.. reality shows, the news, sitcoms, youtube and tv shows which farm youtube for the best content of the day.. look. we ALL have youtube moments in our lives.. and there are a lot of cameras out there.. odds are, enough people are going to be caught doing stupid stuff on tape that day to fill an hour slot on tv..

but the way we feed on it.. they way we were taught to feed on it is we watch it then give our report.. "people are stupid" A+...

and that very behavior is evidenced in this thread.. way too many oneliner "bad parents".. "idiots".. type of things going on.. which shows me, they saw the headline, had a gut reaction, and gave their report..

but it's like nobody (not everybody obv) allows for a tiny little pause in there between seeing the headline and reporting.. this has happened to reportedly 22million people.. we have enough people in this thread - on a tech forum- telling of it happening to them.. this has happened to a far greater % of the population than should be required for nearly everyone to raise a red flag..
but it's not.. and that's because we're all stupid.. i mean, of course this is happening.. bunch of idiots running around out there.. it's our own damn fault (well, theirs anyway)

this could of happened to anybody in the right situation.. a n y b o d y..
you're not smarter than them.. you got lucky and dodged the scam but it was right there in your pocket all along..



if you love apple so much then you have to play a bigger role.. it's not bad of you to question apple and call them out when they are wrong.. that's a good thing to do.. that's you parenting apple and it's what needs to happen.. i mean me personally, i'm along the lines of "look mr. apple.. i am happy to pay your apple tax provided you continue producing kickass computers and software.. but this sneaky crap you're pulling with the app store is going too far.." and that's that..

but the only way we can start to make stuff like this happen is by -- quit thinking everybody is stupid.. it's toxic and it hurts us all.

Parenting Apple... very well said!

Just out of curiosity, how do you think they arrived at he 22mil. number? They didn't go knocking on doors did they?

 

[Larry-K]

computers are not adult only things.

(obviously just my opinion but they're simply not.. and if they are, i think it's time a bazillion parents march into their child's school tomorrow and demand the removal of computers)

If you're using them for business they are, get your kids their own computers, or iPads or whatever.

 

[Larry-K]

Sorry to be blunt but

If he believed he was putting in his password for a FREE APP and then the kid racked up these charges via IAP - then yes. I believe that absolves him from most of the blame of the additional charges. Especially since the IAP process is tainted.

Let me ask you an honest question. Have you read all the posts in this thread (I know there a lot). I'm guessing not. Because this has all been hashed out several times. You're not saying anything new. And I'm tired of repeating myself for every new person that decides to respond.

Clearly it's an issue - there was a big lawsuit and Apple is settling. Not for a few random "stupid" people. But hundreds and thousands of people who were subjected to a poor IAP process.

Then I can only hope the "Taint" of the process is rectified.

 

[dai.hop]

So you assume the parents are lying based on...

Go ahead, I'd like to know the basis for assuming what you're assuming.

Based on there being two separate password prompts in order for an in-app purchase to be made. The first is to download the app, the second is to authorise the in-app purchase.

These parents insist they were only prompted once, which leads me to believe that the app was already installed, which means that the prompt they are referring to is for the in-app purchase - which they didn't check.

 

[digitalhen]

Based on there being two separate password prompts in order for an in-app purchase to be made. The first is to download the app, the second is to authorise the in-app purchase.

These parents insist they were only prompted once, which leads me to believe that the app was already installed, which means that the prompt they are referring to is for the in-app purchase - which they didn't check.

You're clearly forgetting the 15 minute window for purchases (or free apps!) after a password is entered. Has been mentioned numerous time on the thread.

 

[tailhook]

The whole idea of in-app purchases is how Apple and the like managed to make game devs (and app devs in general afterwards) jump head first in their ecosystem.

For or against user interest isn't the point, it's a business model and it has worked spectacularly well so far.

They can't put some type of throttle for the amount that in-app purchases will allow in a given period? So you can set it to say no more than say $10 a day? Or would that mean that nobody would make greedmium games anymore?

 

[KerrG]

wow - so many judgemental comments on this thread. One of the big plusses of Apple kit is its ease of use, you don't need to be a techie, geek or whatever to use it. I know about the restrictions etc and controls to switch off in-app purchases - in fact I found out about it on these forums. However, I know many people who do not and in fact (believe it or not) there are people out there who just want to use the kit without having to dig into how it all works. Analogy - how many people know much more about their car other than you turn the key and it starts?

I've just tried to find out about in app purchasing on the iPad using the Apple site - sorry folks, but if you don't know about it and the possibilities for running up huge bills then you certainly won't be alerted to it. Nothing under iPad 'welcome' or 'essentials'; under 'apps' you can link to 'app store faqs' and even to 'about in-app purchases' - not that they tell you much. On the 'about in-app purchases' page there is no information beyond a list of things you can restrict.

In fact, I would say that from the Apple documentation there would be no reason for you to have any inkling of in-app purchasing problems unless someone pointed them out to you.

 

[digitalhen]

I've just tried to find out about in app purchasing on the iPad using the Apple site - sorry folks, but if you don't know about it and the possibilities for running up huge bills then you certainly won't be alerted to it. Nothing under iPad 'welcome' or 'essentials'; under 'apps' you can link to 'app store faqs' and even to 'about in-app purchases' - not that they tell you much. On the 'about in-app purchases' page there is no information beyond a list of things you can restrict.

You're spot on. I think the "restrictions" bit needs to be re-branded as something like Parental Locks and pushed up to the top-level Settings menu (at the very least)

 

[NavySEAL6]

Apple should do away with freemium IAP games, or at least put a serious limit on them.

 

[Rogifan]

I'm always suspicious of anything free, especially games. I'd rather pay for something up front and not have to deal with ads, pop ups, in-app purchases etc.

 

[sransari]

so a password is annoyingly required to download free apps but then the system fails when real money is involved? that is sillier than apple's new ipad commercials

 

[HMF]

Great. Now tell me if you were new to the iPhone/iPad and ecosystem you would know how all that works. Or that they would NEED to look something up. After all - "it just works" right?

Give me a break. It's easy to find something when you know you have to go looking for it.

What I find funny is that people buy technology and don't even care how stuff works (reading user manual and so on, I know it's boring, but is there for a reason), even so, where they bought the IOS product, they could have asked some questions, and like in most cases, they are told to contact Apple. It's simple to make a phone call and ask even the silly questions as long as you got the answers needed. I have contacted technical support in many cases and not only Apple but other brands. It's a matter of wanting to know how it works.

 

[second.exodous]

This is why I hate the freemium model. In the end you spend more than you would just buying the game outright. They give you a purposely broken game for free and then you have to pay to enjoy playing it.

 

[Tech198]

What I find funny is that people buy technology and don't even care how stuff works (reading user manual and so on, I know it's boring, but is there for a reason), even so, where they bought the IOS product, they could have asked some questions, and like in most cases, they are told to contact Apple. It's simple to make a phone call and ask even the silly questions as long as you got the answers needed. I have contacted technical support in many cases and not only Apple but other brands. It's a matter of wanting to know how it works.

this is one of those "it just doesn't work" cases.

because you have to look stuff up,, so technically speaking, that's Apple know-how, not how it work in the "real world"


But, boy... if it did..... it would be great

 

[samcraig]

What I find funny is that people buy technology and don't even care how stuff works (reading user manual and so on, I know it's boring, but is there for a reason), even so, where they bought the IOS product, they could have asked some questions, and like in most cases, they are told to contact Apple. It's simple to make a phone call and ask even the silly questions as long as you got the answers needed. I have contacted technical support in many cases and not only Apple but other brands. It's a matter of wanting to know how it works.

I would agree. However - the important thing to remember is - you have to at least know to ask. If you either make assumptions or it just simply doesn't occur to you that entering your password once allows X # of time to go by before needing it again - or whatever the process is - then you wouldn't ask.

If you don't know what to ask - you can't possibly learn the answer.

Things are easy to find when you know what you're looking for.

 

[cublah]

When i buy i buy carefully and i rateher have full game from the start than some ass raped template asking to buy this and that every 5 minutes. And most importantly this way you end up paying much more than "the old way".

I agree and as a developer I'd like to sell the games to you at a one off price, but that is not the age we are in now, as I said so many people expect games to be free or cost virtually nothing nowadays, at least this way the game is free and if you don't like it you don't have to pay anything, can't see how you can lose in this situation, pay or don't pay the choice is yours, nobody else's.

 

[damir00]

What I find funny is that people buy technology and don't even care how stuff works...

That's the correct approach.

Doing otherwise would be like asking the car salesman to walk you through the OBD fuel injection algorithms when you're out shopping for a car.

 

[flat five]

This whole problem is the result of bad design by Apple--their settlement admits it right out loud and in front of the whole world. If Apple thought they could get away with it, no way would they have settled.

It's just like the Maps debacle--arrogance and bad design all rolled together.

Luckily enough, they're honest enough to admit it, in both cases.

honest where? how?
i haven't searched extra hard or anything but i've yet to see a statement by an apple spokesperson or figurehead regarding this..

they kind of fixed things once but there are still $100 bags o gold in kids apps and they're still being accidentally purchased.. they could of easily fixed this the first time around.. easily. it's not an accident.

seems to me, the way it works now is if the people ask for their money back, pay it.. if they don't, don't..

but "honest enough to admit it".. i'm not convinced.

 

[samcraig]

It's really cool that Apple refunded everything, but this also highlights the problem that parents should oversee what their children are doing and that both the parents and the child understand what is going on. A good parent wouldn't give an iPad to a 5-year-old logged into an iTunes account with billing information. :/

Really? That is what determines a good parent from a bad one? One mistake?

 

[flat five]

This whole problem is the result of bad design by Apple--their settlement admits it right out loud and in front of the whole world. If Apple thought they could get away with it, no way would they have settled.

probably one of the most accurate statements in the whole thread..
if they thought they could get away with it, they would have beat the charges..