Apple Offers Refund After British Boy Spends $2500 on In-App Purchases in 15 Minutes

[samcraig]

Is the "From Bristol" part significant? Just curious, never been there.

So the Dad isn't responsible for giving his kid the password, he was just too negligent to check and see what he was really buying? Yeah, that absolves him of responsibility.

Sorry to be blunt but

If he believed he was putting in his password for a FREE APP and then the kid racked up these charges via IAP - then yes. I believe that absolves him from most of the blame of the additional charges. Especially since the IAP process is tainted.

Let me ask you an honest question. Have you read all the posts in this thread (I know there a lot). I'm guessing not. Because this has all been hashed out several times. You're not saying anything new. And I'm tired of repeating myself for every new person that decides to respond.

Clearly it's an issue - there was a big lawsuit and Apple is settling. Not for a few random "stupid" people. But hundreds and thousands of people who were subjected to a poor IAP process.

 

[MrDc2]

yeah, maybe.. but it's pretty obvious by now that a huge chunk of the population doesn't know this.. can you deny that?
just because you know this, everybody else doesn't.. can we agree on that?

if so, there's a problem.. and if you'd take a step back for a minute and looked at this in a problem solving state of mind, what do you think is the most logical solution?

either A) relying on 50,000,000 'idiots' to individually figure this stuff out on their own (even though we've already seen it's not happening this way)
or B) one single company changes their billing procedures in their products..

i'm sorry but B seems the obvious choice to me..



another thing that people arguing on apple's behalf seemingly aren't realizing here is this..

you're (not you in particular DC) saying these thoughts are wrong:

when you purchase an iPhone, it should be as secure as possible by default.. this is an internet device which is out in the public and has valuable personal info on it etc.. it should definitely be more secure than a computer just based on the far greater chance of loosing the damn thing.. The user should be able to loosen restrictions as they see fit on an individual basis..

personally, i would like to see an explanation of why it's better to buy a phone and not have it as secure as possible right from the get go.
?

And that's why I've also included "www.apple.com/feedback" in most of my replies. People are apt enough to complain in a forum, perhaps they should apply that same energy and submit it directly to the company responsible for developing the product. I guarantee 90% of the people complaining in this forum have not once submitted anything to www.apple.com/feedback

 

[globalist]

And that's why I've also included "www.apple.com/feedback" in most of my replies. People are apt enough to complain in a forum, perhaps they should apply that same energy and submit it directly to the company responsible for developing the product. I guarantee 90% of the people complaining in this forum have not once submitted anything to www.apple.com/feedback

I'm sorry Mr. Feedback, but you've complained about people complaining just about enough. I invite you to instead submit your feedback on my ignore list.

 

[mrsir2009]

$2500 in in-app purchases for free?

My god. I can't even imagine how many people are going to try and take advantage this.

Kinda risky tho... Spend two grand, cross your fingers and pray that Apple will be sympathetic and refund your money - What if they don't?

 

[MrDc2]

I'm sorry Mr. Feedback, but you've complained about people complaining just about enough. I invite you to instead submit your feedback on my ignore list.

Yep. Part of the, " I just want to complain with other people but do nothing to address the issue or bring it to light.. " crowd. Gratz. Maybe you'll reconsider after primary school.

 

[antonis]

What bad choice??



You don't?

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Bad choice as they handed over to a 5 yo kid a device with full access to the internet, online shops etc without having the - basic - knowledge to restrict those accesses first.

OS features are not promises. They are just that: features. They come and go for whatever reasons. I'm sure the specific parents had no idea of the old-iOS feature so I highly doubt they relied on this, it's a poor excuse or argument. Heck, they didn't even know how to turn off IAPs altogether.

 

[globalist]

Bad choice as they handed over to a 5 yo kid a device with full access to the internet, online shops etc without having the - basic - knowledge to restrict those accesses first.

OS features are not promises. They are just that: features. They come and go for whatever reasons. I'm sure the specific parents had no idea of the old-iOS feature so I highly doubt they relied on this, it's a poor excuse or argument. Heck, they didn't even know how to turn off IAPs altogether.

How can you be sure? And how can you so easily shrug such an important feature off as just "gone missing"?

And seriously, have you never had any accident happen to you that WASN'T your fault?

 

[GREEN4U]

I guess I'm lucky. I made my iTunes account back in 2004 when they didn't require a credit card #. To this day, I haven't ever needed to buy anything from iTunes or the app store so they still don't have my credit card information.

 

[sinned72]

Their a lot of comments in this thread that I really can not comprehend. First and foremost, this whole thing is about responsibility and really that responsibility is the owner of the iPad/iTunes account to control what is happening. The excuse of not getting a 'manual' in printed form is utter hogwash and does not fly, everything can be found on the Apple support site for inquiring minds to look up if they want to spend the time. (as part of the male portion of the species reading manuals for technology is a last resort after said technology is either broken or on the verge of being broken - that is a human failing not a technological one.)

Some other thoughts on items found here:

Apple refunding the IAPs is not that big a deal assuming that a) developer gets funds at set points not instantly at time of purchase b) Apple wipes the purchase tokens from the system such that the purchases are invalid and are not downloaded/enable until repurchased c) the app is removed and needs to be repurchased from scratch from the device(s)/account if it was part of the refund. These would basically mean no one is out of pocket and nothing was really lost since we are talking about data/software and not a physical thing (time enjoyed is besides the point and most purchases are meant for more than 5 minutes of pleasure, generally...)

The IAP system is fine over all for whatever it is used for, it does not need the tweaks listed in some of the comments and the onus is really on the users of the software/iTunes account to be aware of what they are buying. It is a legitimate business model for a platform that does not facilitate a paid upgrades system a la normal desktop software but more of a DLC type model to add features and the like.

I have performed an app purchase followed immediately by an IAP for added functionality (bought a softphone for VoIP and bought the better cellular data codec right away as an IAP) and this required a password for both purchases and the 15 minutes timeout did not apply. I expect the original password entry was for an IAP not the app and the 15 minutes was the 5 year old being a 5 year old (the app was most likely already present as some one very early on mentioned or it was an original iPad never updated.) There is information lacking in the overall reporting of the incident so the exact circumstances are really speculation.

It is really about responsibility and Apple did what they did to keep their customer happy without any real negative impacts to anyone.

 

[lordbenzo]

Why didn't the boys father ask him what he was doing after the first 3-4 purchases when asked for the password, check what he was doing in the first place or better still even let him use the iPad to make a purchase in the first place? I'm all for letting children use my gadgets as some can be educational but every time my niece tries to download something or needs my password I check it over first or simply back out and say "no"
If you ask me its the fathers fault and should keep an eye on his child, makes me wonder what he was doing to just enter the password and let him get on with it instead of checking it over or even disabling the option. Hopefully this will teach HIM a lesson to pay attention to his children but I doubt it. He got his money back and banned him from the iPad.

 

[cgc]

ha.. yeah.. a few other.. all 23,000,000 others..
that's twenty three million itunes accounts which have been affected by this or similar..

Ok, so 23 million account holders made a mistake, I stand by what I said. How many people own i-devices and how many other OS vendors have similar issues (e.g. BB, Android, etc.)?

 

[antonis]

How can you be sure? And how can you so easily shrug such an important feature off as just "gone missing"?

And seriously, have you never had any accident happen to you that WASN'T your fault?

Cause they just asked a refund, they never said it was apple's fault for missing feature, at least the article gives that impression. If they knew that detail they should also know that you can turn off IAP altogether. Actually, the only ones mentioned that it is Apple's fault, are people in this forum. And, frankly, this opinion becomes more popular easier.

Yes I had accidents that were not my fault (and I'm sure I'll have more in the future like anyone else) but this is not anything similar here. It's pretty simple: you don't want IAPs, turn them off. Apple offers pretty simple instructions of how to handle iPad or anything else. I'd expect from the parents to learn to configure a device before they handle it over to a 5yo kid.

iPads and iPhones, just like any other devices, made by Apple or not, including computers, are not made to be used by kids by default. They do offer parent restrictions that need to be activated first. Linux, Windows, iOS, Android, Mac OS X. It should be dumb to work the other way around: coming with most of their advertised features disabled.

And this comes from a person that believes that IAP is a terrible way of profit to begin with (that would be me).

Anyway, I think that everything that could be said for this matter is already said in this thread. I wish that the IAP model would cease to exist anyway, but it seems this is the way everyone is going now (including consoles - just check Sony's announcement for PS4, and the age of their target group).
Companies will use IAPs more and more in the near future, so let's just don't expect everything from them (or trust them blindly), let's just be more responsible ourselves.

 

[samcraig]

Things are easy to find when you know what you're looking for.

I'm glad the IAP process works for you. Are you sure that you're running the same OS as the father in this story?

The difference between you and I? I acknowledge that there are other use cases aside from my own. I also acknowledge that people aren't as tech savvy as myself.

Lastly - the biggest objection I have had in this thread isn't the argument about blame/fault. It's taking it one step further by calling a parent negligent, stupid, moron, or simply being a "bad parent." Leave that crap (not you) out of the discussion. Even the most brilliant people and best parents can make a mistake. It doesn't make them stupid or a bad parent.

Their a lot of comments in this thread that I really can not comprehend. First and foremost, this whole thing is about responsibility and really that responsibility is the owner of the iPad/iTunes account to control what is happening. The excuse of not getting a 'manual' in printed form is utter hogwash and does not fly, everything can be found on the Apple support site for inquiring minds to look up if they want to spend the time. (as part of the male portion of the species reading manuals for technology is a last resort after said technology is either broken or on the verge of being broken - that is a human failing not a technological one.)

Some other thoughts on items found here:

Apple refunding the IAPs is not that big a deal assuming that a) developer gets funds at set points not instantly at time of purchase b) Apple wipes the purchase tokens from the system such that the purchases are invalid and are not downloaded/enable until repurchased c) the app is removed and needs to be repurchased from scratch from the device(s)/account if it was part of the refund. These would basically mean no one is out of pocket and nothing was really lost since we are talking about data/software and not a physical thing (time enjoyed is besides the point and most purchases are meant for more than 5 minutes of pleasure, generally...)

The IAP system is fine over all for whatever it is used for, it does not need the tweaks listed in some of the comments and the onus is really on the users of the software/iTunes account to be aware of what they are buying. It is a legitimate business model for a platform that does not facilitate a paid upgrades system a la normal desktop software but more of a DLC type model to add features and the like.

I have performed an app purchase followed immediately by an IAP for added functionality (bought a softphone for VoIP and bought the better cellular data codec right away as an IAP) and this required a password for both purchases and the 15 minutes timeout did not apply. I expect the original password entry was for an IAP not the app and the 15 minutes was the 5 year old being a 5 year old (the app was most likely already present as some one very early on mentioned or it was an original iPad never updated.) There is information lacking in the overall reporting of the incident so the exact circumstances are really speculation.

It is really about responsibility and Apple did what they did to keep their customer happy without any real negative impacts to anyone.

 

[moel]

$2500 in in-app purchases for free?

My god. I can't even imagine how many people are going to try and take advantage this.

True..but of course the downside is you get plastered across the national newspapers looking like unfit parents, combined with being idiots. Every person in your street/village/county will know you as 'the idiots that let their son buy 2k's worth of in app purchases.

 

[wellred]

I noticed on a sim city type game (something opolis) I was able to purchase some in app money without being prompted for my iTunes password. I don't like IAP driven games and don't play them any more.

 

[kdarling]

$2500 in in-app purchases for free?

My god. I can't even imagine how many people are going to try and take advantage this.

I would think that Apple also took away the purchases.

That is correct. Or at least, that's what happened with my daughter's in-game purchases that were refunded.

 

[AaronEdwards]

$2500 in in-app purchases for free?

My god. I can't even imagine how many people are going to try and take advantage this.

Buying what? Anyone selling anything through IAP that would actually be close to being worth $2500 would make sure that the person buying it won't try to scam them or that the transaction can't be voided.

Yeah, some person could probably take advantage of it and buy smurfberries for $2500 and then blame some child. But that person probably should get a life instead or seek help.

----

Could someone please give me examples of IAP purchases for these kinds of amounts that are actually worth what they are being sold for?

Since all I've seen so far is dodgy developers being allowed, by Apple, to, in reality, scam iOS users.

Apple has decided that for example, nudity, isn't allowed in apps sold in the App Store. Now, people may or may not disagree with that decision. But Apple has made a decision about what's allowed or not, and it's time for Apple to make a decision about IAPs too.

 

[Cloudane]

Poor kid.

An interesting one.. some bad on both sides here I think. Apple for allowing the developers to put in what basically amounts to malware (I can't think of a better term for something that is clearly aimed at getting kids to spend huge amounts of their parents money) and the parents for not using the parental controls supplied. Good of Apple to issue the refund, as they could've easily just pointed to the parental controls and shrugged.

Just as they check all apps before accepting them into the store, they should check all in app purchases too, and prevent malware games from getting through. There's no justification for charging £100 for a cart of in-game apples or whatever and no-one would buy them apart from kids who don't know better. It's exploitation.

 

[agmaster]

I'm sorry, but it is the parents fault for not being more cautious. They should have checked out the game before letting the kid download it, even if it is "free" to download the game...

 

[Renzatic]

I'm sorry, but it is the parents fault for not being more cautious. They should have checked out the game before letting the kid download it, even if it is "free" to download the game...

They probably did for the content, but didn't even think about in app purchases until it was too late. Like Samcraig said above, not everyone is as tech savvy and informed about all things tech as most of us are here. Don't be so quick to assume negligence for something more likely caused by slight ignorance.

...which I'm sure isn't a problem for the parents anymore. Getting $3500 worth of mysterious charges on your credit card has a way of teaching people things they need to know.

 

[yusukeaoki]

More like parenting fail rather than Apple's fault.

 

[HenryDJP]

True..but of course the downside is you get plastered across the national newspapers looking like unfit parents, combined with being idiots. Every person in your street/village/county will know you as 'the idiots that let their son buy 2k's worth of in app purchases.

I doubt that one of the stipulations to Apple giving them a refund was that they had to make spectacles of themselves to the media. All of that media news was at the permission of the customers in question. Apple did not force BBC into those people's homes. Nobody had to know about it.

 

[AaronEdwards]

More like parenting fail rather than Apple's fault.

This is more like parenting fail by Apple.

Apple is parenting us by dictating the kind of content that's is allowed in the App Store (which Apple also has decided is the only way you can buy and install apps). Apple has decided that, for example, nudity is a big no-no, but as parent it is more than willing to have us download apps that we then can buy (again also through Apple) crap from for $99.

It also has been telling us that things just work and that iOS is not as seedy of a neighborhood as Android. Clearly, that's also parenting fail by Apple.

 

[damir00]

Theoretical notions of who participates in bearing "responsibility" are fairly irrelevant, IMO. These types of stories are bad for Apple, and it's up to Apple to minimize the odds of it happening, for it's own well-being.

Obviously they're struggling a little with how to do that, as they've changed the mechanisms a couple of times, and paid out on a substantial lawsuit.

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True..but of course the downside is you get plastered across the national newspapers looking like unfit parents, combined with being idiots. Every person in your street/village/county will know you as 'the idiots that let their son buy 2k's worth of in app purchases.

I had a kid rack up ~$1k in charges over the course of an hour or so. Apple did the right thing without anybody running to the media.

This happens to a LOT of parents, and none of them are looking at this couple as being "idiots".

People generally trust Apple to do the right thing - having default behavior that allows small children to be taken advantage of is not in keeping with that notion - and the expectation that Apple reverse charges is perfectly reasonable.

 

[yusukeaoki]

This is more like parenting fail by Apple.

Apple is parenting us by dictating the kind of content that's is allowed in the App Store (which Apple also has decided is the only way you can buy and install apps). Apple has decided that, for example, nudity is a big no-no, but as parent it is more than willing to have us download apps that we then can buy (again also through Apple) crap from for $99.

It also has been telling us that things just work and that iOS is not as seedy of a neighborhood as Android. Clearly, that's also parenting fail by Apple.

I dont really see that as a problem though.
IMO, Apple had the inapp purchase and the kid downloaded.
It even clearly states that certain inapp costs money.
And the parent should already be suspicious of typing in a password to purchase.

I like Android as well as iOS.
Dont really like to compare which one's the best and what they do since they have different options.
I just enjoy using both.