Apple Offers Refund After British Boy Spends $2500 on In-App Purchases in 15 Minutes

[DeathChill]

EDIT: Screwed up

 

[samcraig]

No. If I hand over something to a child, it is my responsibility to check it out before.

Anyway, Apple has very easy to understand introduction videos on its website in which getting to know your device is explained.

Apple can try to make people think, but it cannot force them.

I'm not going to discuss the issue anymore where the fundamental flaw is that even with Apple's supposed protection in place - the process still fails.

And I never said it's not a parents responsibility not to be diligent.

Maybe someone else did.

 

[flat five]

One of the very things wrong with the world today, nobody ever takes responsibility for there actions! It's always someone else's fault and the media helps find someone to blaim to make into something it's not! When really it's just ignorant people doing stupid things and not wanting to suffer the consequences!

So you think Electronics Companies or Developers must take care that stupid parents cannot mistakenly give their toddlers access to their account? How about that: parents are responsible for their children. And for securing their own account information.

Apple has been very generous.

i'm not quite sure i'd call a corporation which was sued , and lost (well, they settled), being 'generous'..
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1548598/

and the simple fact that they're not making it easy and/or obvious about preventing this from happening just goes to show (me at least) how generous they actually are..

simply selling the phones which default to no in app purchases would prevent so many of these occurrences.. or, requiring a password at all times for iaps would help people immensely.. would you complain if you bought a phone which had that as a default behavior? is that asking for too much here? honestly..

 

[samcraig]

i'm not quite sure i'd call a corporation which was sued , and lost (well, they settled), being 'generous'..
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1548598/

and the simple fact that they're not making it easy and/or obvious about preventing this from happening just goes to show (me at least) how generous they actually are..

simply selling the phones which default to no in app purchases would prevent so many of these occurrences.. or, requiring a password at all times for iaps would help people immensely.. would you complain if you bought a phone which had that as a default behavior? is that asking for too much here? honestly..

There's a lot of hypocrisy on this thread.

People think one should assume your CC is available for any purchase and that the default option should be "on" and it's so easy for someone to turn it off so what's the big deal.

But they also think that having it defaulted the other way would be a pain or inconvenience for them and why should they have to go through that "trouble" just because some parents are "stupid."

Sorry - but if it's so easy - then it's easy. So no reason to default it OFF so to avoid issues from ignorance about how the system works. As it is now - it's very inviting for the issue to present itself.

"Apple can try to make people think, but it cannot force them."

I find that statement funny since their motto is "it just works."

In this case - "it just works" refers to charging your CC - not securing it as best they can with the IAP process.

 

[antonis]

There, fixed it for you.

Seriously ? Or here's another idea: If someone does not have the IQ to turn off a feature that even a monkey can do, then he should not give this device to a small child.

But I'll agree, accusing everyone else for our incompetence is way easier. Every time.

 

[globalist]

Seriously ? Or here's another idea: If someone does not have the IQ to turn off a feature that even a monkey can do, then he should not give this device to a small child.

But I'll agree, accusing everyone else for our incompetence is way easier. Every time.

Umm, if Apple tells you feature X works and you later find out it doesn't, it's your incompetence for trusting them, right? Because that's the only possible explanation of what you've just spouted there.

 

[antonis]

Umm, if Apple tells you feature X works and you later find out it doesn't, it's your incompetence for trusting them, right? That's the only possible explanation of what you've just spouted there.

Yup, it is, as long as there's a child involved (e.g. a person without the ability to judge action consequences, like an adult). I believe it is called "Parenting".

Apple (or any other company for that matter) might claim that the next iPhone will allow you to fly. I'd say, let's test it first before allow our kids jump off the roof with that.

 

[gnasher729]

@flat five, samcraig, and gnasher

So this time no analogies since you seem to be a little hung up on those.

The point that most people are trying to make is that you don't give a 5 year old unsupervised access to something that can charge your credit card.

Also, Apple refunded the money. So the way that I see it, Apple is a reasonable company to deal with. Maybe this is one of the reasons why people buy Apple products -- good customer service.

The developer is just trying to make money -- yes, most people like to make money for the work that they do. Apple is just trying to make money -- yes, most companies like to make money for providing services. The father made a mistake -- yes, one that will probably not be repeated. The kid was to blame -- no, he's a five year old and we already established that the father made the mistake.

Why are you trying to spin this negatively when the company did the right thing? There far more examples in this world of companies doing the wrong thing.

I don't think you understood anything what I have been posting. Apple did absolutely the right thing by refunding the money. Not once have I given any indication that this was not the case. The point, which is quite irrefutable, is that purchases were made by a five year old, and when a five year old purchases _anything_, no matter where and how, the parents can void the purchase contract and get their money back.

There is no spinning whatsoever here. Five year old enters a contract. A payment is made. The parents void the contract. The money is refunded. Nothing to see here.

One of the very things wrong with the world today, nobody ever takes responsibility for there actions! It's always someone else's fault and the media helps find someone to blaim to make into something it's not! When really it's just ignorant people doing stupid things and not wanting to suffer the consequences!

What are you complaining about? Apple clearly took responsibility. They accepted money from a five year old, and promptly refunded it when asked to, as they had to. Or are you complaining that a five year old didn't take responsibility? It's quite established in all western countries that a five year old _cannot_ be held responsible for a purchase contract. The parents also clearly took responsibility. They saw that their five year old entered a very expensive purchase contract, and clearly took responsibility by voiding that contract. Any responsible parent would have done that. Do you suggest the parents should have waited until the child is 18 and presented him with the bill? That would be totally irresponsible. It's the responsibility of the parents to protect their children.

 

[gnasher729]

So why is Apple now responsible for "compensating" the damages caused by bad parenting?

If this young British boy had used the iPhone to club to death his younger 2-year old sister..... oh let me guess... the British Courts would have demanded that Apple was responsible and therefore Apple should have to pay the costs of the funeral!

That's quite an idiotic thing to say. I don't think you noticed, but there was actually zero damage. A five year old entered a contract, paid through his parents credit card, the parents voided the contract, the money was refunded. Every seller is aware that contracts with underage children (that is in most places _under eighteen_, but most definitely applies to a five year old) are voidable, and the seller carries the risk.

So your "guess" is just pathetic.

Gotta tell ya, loved your post....oy vey. Okay Mr. pre-law, it doesn't matter if it was a 5, 6,7,8,9 or a 10 year old, the person who's credit card that is listed on the account is the purchaser, period. And just how would Apple know that a child made the purchases? Just because they are kids games doesn't mean it was kid that made the purchases. We all might as well just do that, buy a game, spend money on in-app purchases, find out we hate the game or are bored by it, call Apple and say our 5 year old bought it and didn't know what he was doing and get refunded.

How can you make this claim? The parent didn't press the "buy" button. You can't enter a purchase contract by not watching your child. A purchase contract implies an offer and acceptance of the offer. The games developer didn't offer a purchase to the parents, and the parents didn't accept any purchase offer.

The second argument that you make is that people could commit fraud. Let's be clear about that, making a stupid purchase and then claiming it was your five year old to void that contract is fraud. Sure they could commit fraud. It seems Apple assumes that people don't commit fraud.

 

[globalist]

Yup, it is, as long as there's a child involved (e.g. a person without the ability to judge action consequences, like an adult). I believe it is called "Parenting".

Apple (or any other company for that matter) might claim that the next iPhone will allow you to fly. I'd say, let's test it first before allow our kids jump off the roof with that.

Wow, I take it you or your kids never had any sort of accident happen to you in your life? Grats!

But seriously, how exactly would you test for the unsuspected (and yet real) scenario that in-app purchasing does not work as advertised?

 

[Max(IT)]

A good parent wouldn't give an iPad to a 5-year-old. Period.

Says who ?

 

[lifeinhd]

Not so sure I want to get into this... but think of what the thought process for the parent would have to be after buying the app to avoid this situation:

1. I wonder if there's any way to purchase more apps without entering the password? (An illogical thought since it doesn't work that way at any physical store-- once you pay and leave, your kid can't come up to the cashier with one more item and add it to your tab no problem.)

2. Hm, it seems I can still purchase apps. I guess I'll tell my kid not to use the App Store. But I wonder if there's any way to purchase apps in other apps? (Again an illogical thought with no basis.)

3. [After finding an app with this functionality] wow, you can. I wonder if I buy another app from the App Store and enter my password, if I can do this without needing to enter my password again?

4. Seems you can. Aye. Guess I'll have to spend the next hour of my time sitting next to my child instead of getting some chores done, which is why I was giving him my iPad in the first place. Oh well. Also, I'm glad I just spent $5 unnecessarily in apps to avoid the hundreds of dollars my kid could have spent had I not figured out what to look for-- well done me!

TL;DR: As a parent (nay, a human), it's impossible to think of every conceivable possibility.

 

[MrDc2]

Because he typed in the password and pretended later that he didn't know. Whatever. It's $2500. I would have done the same thing. But Apple usually makes ONE exception in those cases.

----------

i'm not quite sure i'd call a corporation which was sued , and lost (well, they settled), being 'generous'..
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1548598/

and the simple fact that they're not making it easy and/or obvious about preventing this from happening just goes to show (me at least) how generous they actually are..

simply selling the phones which default to no in app purchases would prevent so many of these occurrences.. or, requiring a password at all times for iaps would help people immensely.. would you complain if you bought a phone which had that as a default behavior? is that asking for too much here? honestly..

www.apple.com/feedback

They listen. They have a team dedicated to reading feedback. But the people here who are complaining, are doing so in the wrong place. Complain where Apple will actually read it.

----------

Not so sure I want to get into this... but think of what the thought process for the parent would have to be after buying the app to avoid this situation:

1. I wonder if there's any way to purchase more apps without entering the password? (An illogical thought since it doesn't work that way at any physical store-- once you pay and leave, your kid can't come up to the cashier with one more item and add it to your tab no problem.)

2. Hm, it seems I can still purchase apps. I guess I'll tell my kid not to use the App Store. But I wonder if there's any way to purchase apps in other apps? (Again an illogical thought with no basis.)

3. [After finding an app with this functionality] wow, you can. I wonder if I buy another app from the App Store and enter my password, if I can do this without needing to enter my password again?

4. Seems you can. Aye. Guess I'll have to spend the next hour of my time sitting next to my child instead of getting some chores done, which is why I was giving him my iPad in the first place. Oh well. Also, I'm glad I just spent $5 unnecessarily in apps to avoid the hundreds of dollars my kid could have spent had I not figured out what to look for-- well done me!

TL;DR: As a parent (nay, a human), it's impossible to think of every conceivable possibility.

www.apple.com/feedback

They listen. They have a team dedicated to reading feedback.

----------

because i know exactly three people this has happened to (highest being $70..lowest being $30).. and even after i told them there has been a settlement in which apple is refunding for these situations, they're still "whatever, it's over with.. it was two years ago..etc"

and the way i see it, the lawsuit involves 20million accounts.. judging by my personal experience, at least half of the incidents have gone unreported.. so say 20million other accounts have had this happen at $25 each..

that's $500,000,000 we're talking about which apple/devs are pulling in even after the payouts.. these jokers are raking it in.. and you're sitting around thinking 'see, apple is doing the right thing.. such a good company !"

(and yes, those numbers aren't very accurate.. you've seen exactly how i arrived at them.. and i've tried to be on the conservative side with the guesstimate.. regardless, they're definitely pulling in multiple millions of $$ here via this setup of theirs)

www.apple.com/feedback

They listen. They have a team dedicated to reading feedback.

 

[HenryDJP]

How can you make this claim? The parent didn't press the "buy" button.

You're asking me how can I make the claim I made? How can you make this claim? What facts do you actually have? The article said so? Yeah. . Were you there? No. It's amazing how this world is made up of so many consumers that are con artists and yet you're giving the father a pass as if it he just couldn't be one of them. Thieves would love to have you as their star witness in court. .
I remember right here on MR when the first iPad came out, a forum member dropped his iPad and broke the screen badly. Other members here (not me for sure) encouraged him to take it to the Apple store, lie and tell them that his 4 year old little girl broke it. Furthermore they encouraged him to bring his little girl with him and have her say she broke it so they would feel sorry for her and replace it. You know what? That forum member accepted the advice of MR members and did it. Very sad. But of course, nobody but corporate america is in the wrong according to you and our poor citizens couldn't possibly be scammers. Oy vey.

You can't enter a purchase contract by not watching your child. A purchase contract implies an offer and acceptance of the offer. The games developer didn't offer a purchase to the parents, and the parents didn't accept any purchase offer.

Once again, you weren't there so you, me and Apple have no idea who actually pressed BUY, furthermore I told you earlier that the person who's credit card is on file that got charged is the buyer. Look it up. The parent, "A grown man" placed the iPad in the hands of his child. The parent must own up to whatever happens. It's the parent's responsibility. Why should the world pay for everyone else's mistakes?

The second argument that you make is that people could commit fraud. Let's be clear about that, making a stupid purchase and then claiming it was your five year old to void that contract is fraud. Sure they could commit fraud. It seems Apple assumes that people don't commit fraud.

Yep, and so do you, sadly.

 

[MrDc2]

They should restrict in App purchases more if targeted at kids. Apple guides heavily what Devs can and can't do already and clearly no 5 year old is going to have the money to afford that amount of stuff. Perhaps some 'cap spend' option or just no in App purchases for under 10s games or something.

www.apple.com/feedback

They want to hear moar.

 

[MrDc2]

Yes - so hard to go to the settings and change a switch from one position to the other.

A bit hypocritical, no?

The key thing you wrote here was "So all of us using this and know what we are doing"

Now imagine people who don't know the setting exists or where to find it because they aren't as savvy as you.

It's not laziness.

Laziness would be someone (like you) not wanting to take 3 seconds to turn ON something that should default to ON.

The parent should have known when he entered in his credit card information into an eight hundred dollar piece of equipment and gave it to his five year old that something would go wrong. Murphy's law. And a five year old.

How long does it take to look through Settings for important features/settings? Or Settings>iTunes and App Store? That was his mistake. But for the same reason you review the fine print when signing bank and loan applications... you also review settings of devices that can use your credit card?

 

[antonis]

Wow, I take it you or your kids never had any sort of accident happen to you in your life? Grats!

But seriously, how exactly would you test for the unsuspected (and yet real) scenario that in-app purchasing does not work as advertised?

Accidents happen, but I'm not blaming others for them, especially on cases like this that accidents are a result of a bad choice. I don't see any promise that was broken from Apple's side here, or anything else that includes false advertising. iPad is a device like all the other smart devices, it has an online store, it also has direct and - by default - unrestricted connection to the internet (and all the hazards that may rely there for a kid).

All the operating systems, for desktop or mobile devices, also offer unrestricted access to internet, online shopping, social networking etc. etc. enabled by default. Now, parents have always some choices. They can prevent access to their kids completely, or they can configure the aforementioned devices to parental restrictions.

Failing to do that is understandable, and a mistake can also be a lesson. Accusing the company, though, and be done with it, is just irresponsible.

 

[occollegeboi420]

Yah that's cool that apple refunded it. They've refunded me for a couple apps on the app store that I was completely dissatisfied with. It's not like it really costs anything just to download something off of a server.

And one cannot possibly spend 2500 in 5 minutes unless they were at the mall...a big mall like south coast plaza where every store is a high end designer. Dev's need to fix this so that the purchases are not unknown or something. That's just ludicrous.

 

[Larry-K]

I use 1password, so my password is very complicated on the older version when you copy the password it stays in the memory so as long as the battery doesn't run out you can paste the password several days later.

My youngest knew how to paste or magnify glass as he calls it and used up my credit* buying coins in the first temple run game, as my oldest showed him when he got a free game.

Its not a case of bad parenting as your implying, i'm guessing you don't have children, its just one of those things. I take responsibility for this incident but i'm reasonably tech savvy compared to the average person and it caught me out.

* This is why I use iTunes cards and haven't registered my credit card with Apple, the amount was around £12

I have a friend who's children have destroyed 3 subsequent computers, but she never learns. Keep adult things separate from children things. That's common sense.

 

[flat five]

The parent should have known when he entered in his credit card information into an eight hundred dollar piece of equipment and gave it to his five year old that something would go wrong. Murphy's law. And a five year old.

yeah, maybe.. but it's pretty obvious by now that a huge chunk of the population doesn't know this.. can you deny that?
just because you know this, everybody else doesn't.. can we agree on that?

if so, there's a problem.. and if you'd take a step back for a minute and looked at this in a problem solving state of mind, what do you think is the most logical solution?

either A) relying on 50,000,000 'idiots' to individually figure this stuff out on their own (even though we've already seen it's not happening this way)
or B) one single company changes their billing procedures in their products..

i'm sorry but B seems the obvious choice to me..



another thing that people arguing on apple's behalf seemingly aren't realizing here is this..

you're (not you in particular DC) saying these thoughts are wrong:

when you purchase an iPhone, it should be as secure as possible by default.. this is an internet device which is out in the public and has valuable personal info on it etc.. it should definitely be more secure than a computer just based on the far greater chance of loosing the damn thing.. The user should be able to loosen restrictions as they see fit on an individual basis..

personally, i would like to see an explanation of why it's better to buy a phone and not have it as secure as possible right from the get go.
?

 

[Larry-K]

Danny Kitchen, from Bristol, was using the family's iPad when father Greg put in a pass code, believing his son was downloading a free game.

Is the "From Bristol" part significant? Just curious, never been there.

So the Dad isn't responsible for giving his kid the password, he was just too negligent to check and see what he was really buying? Yeah, that absolves him of responsibility.

 

[globalist]

Accidents happen, but I'm not blaming others for them, especially on cases like this that accidents are a result of a bad choice.

What bad choice??

I don't see any promise that was broken from Apple's side here, or anything else that includes false advertising.

You don't?

----------

Not so sure I want to get into this... but think of what the thought process for the parent would have to be after buying the app to avoid this situation:

1. I wonder if there's any way to purchase more apps without entering the password? (An illogical thought since it doesn't work that way at any physical store-- once you pay and leave, your kid can't come up to the cashier with one more item and add it to your tab no problem.)

2. Hm, it seems I can still purchase apps. I guess I'll tell my kid not to use the App Store. But I wonder if there's any way to purchase apps in other apps? (Again an illogical thought with no basis.)

3. [After finding an app with this functionality] wow, you can. I wonder if I buy another app from the App Store and enter my password, if I can do this without needing to enter my password again?

4. Seems you can. Aye. Guess I'll have to spend the next hour of my time sitting next to my child instead of getting some chores done, which is why I was giving him my iPad in the first place. Oh well. Also, I'm glad I just spent $5 unnecessarily in apps to avoid the hundreds of dollars my kid could have spent had I not figured out what to look for-- well done me!

TL;DR: As a parent (nay, a human), it's impossible to think of every conceivable possibility.

LOL, but if you don't you're bad at parenting.

 

[flat five]

I have a friend who's children have destroyed 3 subsequent computers, but she never learns. Keep adult things separate from children things. That's common sense.

computers are not adult only things.

(obviously just my opinion but they're simply not.. and if they are, i think it's time a bazillion parents march into their child's school tomorrow and demand the removal of computers)

 

[globalist]

Is the "From Bristol" part significant? Just curious, never been there.

So the Dad isn't responsible for giving his kid the password, he was just too negligent to check and see what he was really buying? Yeah, that absolves him of responsibility.

Even if you check what you're buying, there's a default 15-minute window open afterwards for unrestricted IAPs. Apple better fix this fast.

 

[Tech198]

Could the same thing be done with an App Store account? Haven't used mine in a while so not very up to date on how it works.

Yes... you can remove any form of payments at will. Thats what i have with my iTuens account.... No credit card associated with it. But this is a good idea too Only add it when needed, and remove it afterwards...