Apple Offers Sneak Peek of Completely Redesigned Mac Pro

[Kwill]

How am I supposed to use this thing?

What a disappointment.

1. It's too expensive.
2. It's too small.
3. It's too dark.
4. It's too round.
5. It's too slow.
6. It doesn't have enough expandability.
7. It doesn't have a floppy drive.

And these are just my complaints without actually seeing or using the real thing. Mac users are doomed.

 

[Rocketman]

The issue isn't performance. If you need raw performance, use an all SSD array. More often than not, you don't need SSDs -- you just need plain old storage with cheap mechanical HDDs and Terabytes worth of storage.

Exactly. Hence each USB3 port (4) will support discs chained or arrayed, leaving the TB2 ports for daisy chaining (hence 3x2) a series of high capacity accessories when they mature. Give it a year.

USB3 is here today. Discs and monitors.

BTW I agree with those that state Apple uses half to 1/4 as many memory slots as they should. They are nearly free and old memory is also nearly free. It will be old in two years!

Rocketman

 

[ericmooreart]

Have you tried building a hackintosh with dual Xeon CPU's and dual high grade GPU's (never mind Solid State storage)? Even with i7 CPU's that cost expectation is unrealistic.

Built my Hackentosh with an i7, 32 gb ram, 2 128gb ssd, Radeon 6870 graphics, wifi card, 2 2tb hard drives (internal), 2 internal sata docks and a dvd drive for under 1300 bucks so I would say its more then realistic.

And I have 2 pci slots free.

 

[prowlmedia]

Ports. Expect to have to buy a lot of new hubs. Let's not forget that they're all in back of the thing, too, so forget about using thumb drives ever again. If Apple expects everyone to go external for everything, those few ports are going to be used up very quickly.

Storage. Now instead of sticking cheap drives into the thing you have to buy expensive Thunderbolt enclosures for everything. SSD is still very expensive, and I'm sure Apple's brand new custom-designed drives will be even more expensive.

Expansion. Instead of sticking off-the-shelf cards into your computer you have to go and get some expensive external PCI enclosures that will have less bandwidth than the much cheaper PCI slots of old.

While I'm sure that some pros still use optical media, the loss of that on the new computer Apple is making will not be a big deal. But of course you'd have to use up one of those very few USB ports to get optical media again, if that is a big deal for you. So more hubs.

It's a pro machine I don't want cheap drives - I want a thunderbolt SSD raid. It will use ANY drive you an to attach, so no idea where you getting the custom drive thing? The PCIe drive is more like solid state memory and way faster than an SSD even. You can still use your SSDs or SATAs or even IDEs via 'expensive' thunderbolt connections or about a reasonable USB3 connection.

You can use your off the shelf card in a pcie expansion box. but you are wrong about the bandwidth - Thunderbolt 2 has 20gb bandwith and incorporates PCI-e... and there are 6 ports meaning you can daisy chain 36 devices - with a theoretical 120gb thoughput.

"very few USB ports" 1 less than currently. Optical media is a bit pointless ( burnt last disc about 18 months ago and that was a DVD master ) now with a 32gb usb stick costing less than $10. Which I plug into... my keyboard but I suspect there will be a new macPro wireless keyboard.

What else do you plug in?! Mouse/trackpad are bluetooth - Printer/scanner and various other things are WiFi Even my Camera uses WiFi SD cards! The only thing I plug in is a 3d Connection controller.

For pros this is all going to make a lot of sense.

20gb Thunderbolt Networks - shared access to resources / cards etc. Might seem a bit odd for a single machine set up. but going to rock small studios and above.

The point is we don't know the figures on this at all yet, but I bet it comes in cheaper for the base model than the old one. Going to way higher probably fully spec'd

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

"it's plastic!" no, read: http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

"thunderbolt not fast enough" it's thunderbolt 2, 20 GB bi-directional throughput: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2420031,00.asp ...it has TWO channels as well, 3 ports for each channel, 6 total, 36 devices can be connected.

Here are some current thunderbolt devices, but, I am sure there are people making thunderbolt 2 devices right now that will be ready at time Mac Pro is available http://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/(expansion card boxes here for old timers that have to have cards)
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/

need external optical drive? omg. here: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/optical-drives/superdrives/

you're a bunch of winers complaining about no more floppies or serial ports.

going external is the best move to make. period.

+100

I think most of the pros around here are still working through emotional issues from when Apple took away their floppy drives. DVD is dead people. DEAD! Nobody watches those antiquated things any more. The future is the cloud. The future will be streamed to you wirelessly no matter where you are. Apple knows this and is planning a path forward. This Mac Pro is going to take us into the next decade. With the tremendous speed of TB2, there will be no limit to what can be done with this new Mac Pro.

The basic fact remains that most of the people here who are complaining are not even using their existing Mac Pros to the fullest potential. Usually those who complain the loudest are also the ones least qualified to complain.

 

[IGregory]

The new Mac Pro is one sleek and beautify machine.

 

[quagmire]

Not sure why you haven't edited this comment to prevent others who read the first few posts to continue to believe it is plastic, although you had clarified you were in error later on..

Good idea....... My quote notifications were getting out of hand.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Built my Hackentosh with an i7, 32 gb ram, 2 128gb ssd, Radeon 6870 graphics, wifi card, 2 2tb hard drives (internal), 2 internal sata docks and a dvd drive for under 1300 bucks so I would say its more then realistic.

And I have 2 pci slots free.

ROTFL... you are certainly not Apple's target customer and you should not be commenting.

 

[pmz]

Is TB2 fast enough to support external GPUs? ...and storage, and displays, and a RED Rocket Card?

Concerned about latency since there is a conversion step between TB and the processor(s).

That is really the only weak link I see so far in this new form factor. I could care less what it looks like... but I do need serious GPU support, of the CUDA variety and I need that support to be flexible. Most everything else I needed PCIe for can (and will) be replaced or put in a chassis.

GPU... not so sure.

Please back up your answers with facts. Signal to noise ratio on this tread is a bit insane.

Thunderbolt 1.0 is already more than fast enough to run external GPUs/storage/displays. You're late to the party, for someone asking others to back up responses with "facts".

 

[Blu Reel]

Built my Hackentosh with an i7, 32 gb ram, 2 128gb ssd, Radeon 6870 graphics, wifi card, 2 2tb hard drives (internal), 2 internal sata docks and a dvd drive for under 1300 bucks so I would say its more then realistic.

Built my own Hackintosh, too. But let's remember our purchasing power is miniscule compared to Apple's. We bought all our gear "off the shelf" at after market prices.

I suspect that Apple is going to WOW us with the price point vs performance that we're going to get.

Consider the off the shelf price of a video card that will drive a 4K display. Basic rule of economics, why is the current price so high? Not enough demand - no volume purchases.

The pricing question now relates to how many Mac Pros is Apple intending on making in their new US facility. Therefore, how many video cards will they be buying? Compare that to the elite graphic card market. So how much cheaper do you think Apple will get these cards?

So to the core point of this thread, yes, price point is going to be a big factor. Can't wait until Apple decides to release that info.

 

[Xiroteus]

+100

I think most of the pros around here are still working through emotional issues from when Apple took away their floppy drives. DVD is dead people. DEAD! Nobody watches those antiquated things any more. The future is the cloud. The future will be streamed to you wirelessly no matter where you are. Apple knows this and is planning a path forward. This Mac Pro is going to take us into the next decade. With the tremendous speed of TB2, there will be no limit to what can be done with this new Mac Pro.

Dying not dead as that would imply no ones uses them any longer when millions of people still do to some degree. And the cloud is only good for possible overpriced digital content or those not worried about the best quality out there. Even I will say the right priced streaming (Netflix) is good enough most of the time because not everyone needs blu-ray level quality at all times.

 

[prowlmedia]

Built my Hackentosh with an i7, 32 gb ram, 2 128gb ssd, Radeon 6870 graphics, wifi card, 2 2tb hard drives (internal), 2 internal sata docks and a dvd drive for under 1300 bucks so I would say its more then realistic.

And I have 2 pci slots free.

And you have a midrange games machine... Is it a 12 Core Xeon with workstation grade kit. No - because it's very hard to make a stable HackPro.

 

[gnomeisland]

TOTALLY AGREE!

And everyone is presuming that the Mac Pro is going to cost the same or more than the current model... I suspect, with all of the shedding that this new Mac Pro has undergone, that it will come in at a lower price that will shock a lot of people.

You make several good points but cheaper?! Fat chance. Dual GPU standard? Made in America? This will be the most expensive Mac Pro yet. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I think Apple managed to pull this off because they know one thing: with all those USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt 2.0 ports, all the mass storage expansion can be done on an external box with no loss in access speed to the external mass storage. I wouldn't be surprised that Apple (or a third party) will offer a DVD or Blu-ray "writable" drive that connects to the USB 3.0 ports at full USB 3.0 speeds.

 

[ggoerl]

it looks like a trash receptacle.

Ps. where's the optical in and outputs? Furthermore how can you even upgrade it besides ram and hdd's? I don't see any access for a where an added pci-express card would be added. I sure hope this design isn't set in stone. Because I will just stick with my 3,1 for another two years.

 

[wiz329]

Have you tried building a hackintosh with dual Xeon CPU's and dual high grade GPU's (never mind Solid State storage)? Even with i7 CPU's that cost expectation is unrealistic.

This machine is not dual socket.

----------

I think Apple managed to pull this off because they know one thing: with all those USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt 2.0 ports, all the mass storage expansion can be done on an external box with no loss in access speed to the external mass storage. I wouldn't be surprised that Apple (or a third party) will offer a DVD or Blu-ray "writable" drive that connects to the USB 3.0 ports at full USB 3.0 speeds.

Optical can't read or write at anything close to USB 3.0 speeds.

----------

You make several good points but cheaper?! Fat chance. Dual GPU standard? Made in America? This will be the most expensive Mac Pro yet. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so.

Not to mention the expensive proprietary boot SSD.

----------

Built my own Hackintosh, too. But let's remember our purchasing power is miniscule compared to Apple's. We bought all our gear "off the shelf" at after market prices.

I suspect that Apple is going to WOW us with the price point vs performance that we're going to get.

Consider the off the shelf price of a video card that will drive a 4K display. Basic rule of economics, why is the current price so high? Not enough demand - no volume purchases.

The pricing question now relates to how many Mac Pros is Apple intending on making in their new US facility. Therefore, how many video cards will they be buying? Compare that to the elite graphic card market. So how much cheaper do you think Apple will get these cards?

So to the core point of this thread, yes, price point is going to be a big factor. Can't wait until Apple decides to release that info.

Apple's fat margins will more than cancel out any bulk discount they get.

 

[DeepIn2U]

It won't offer enough bandwidth for graphics cards.

They announce a much smaller Mac Pro but forgot to tell people that you're going to have to buy multiple chassis, install PCI-E cards into them and plug all the bandwidth intensive devices into the same port. Instead of one large workstation that I can tuck away I'll end up with multiple chassis spread across my desk.

This is an idiotic move.

I'm willing to bet that you're already have "multiple chassis spread across your desk". Just looking at the 'show your desktop' layouts so many have Mac Pro's fitted with HDD and yet still an external BluRay Drive (combo DVD too), external HDD (running SCSI/10'000RPM+) due to fear of internal drives; never understood that when Mac Pro/PowerMac/G4 was able to hold 4/3/4 HDD.

I'm curious what the standard or maximum internal storage PCIe SSD will be shipping with which configurations, and how RELIABLE it will be under serious loads?

 

[Rocketman]

it looks like a trash receptacle.

And you posted to troll.

 

[wiz329]

Thunderbolt 1.0 is already more than fast enough to run external GPUs/storage/displays. You're late to the party, for someone asking others to back up responses with "facts".

Not GPUs. Especially for raw compute and not just games.

 

[Wild-Bill]

And you have a midrange games machine... Is it a 12 Core Xeon with workstation grade kit. No - because it's very hard to make a stable HackPro.

No it isn't. The only thing missing from the equation of having a fully "stable" HackPro are specific Xeon kexts to enable speedstep and sleep. THAT'S IT.

And once this garbage can hits retail, those kexts will be out in the wild, and then fully, 100% functioning HackPros will be out there.

There are quite a few SandyBridge-based dual CPU HackPros out in the wild already. The iGarbagecan kexts will complete the loop. End of story.

 

[DeepIn2U]

...

Scorecard... bye bye optical, firewire. Called it.
Thunderbolt (2!), SSD Tech. Check
No internal expandability.. HELLO.

Called SSD standard, called no internal drive expansion as well. ThunderBolt was the clue to both.

PS: Anyone know when WiFi will be secure enough and viable enough to ...
a) be fast enough to use as expansion for external storage transfer (read/write), reliable?
b) to not/to share - external expansion kits for existing SSD drives, or HDD, with their own "future standard" WiFi (not sure if AC will do this well enough) and have it encrypted powerfully enough without slowing the transfer so that mr creep outside your house with his PC/Mac lappy will not grab your data?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Wow, you seem awfully certain of yourself for not having all of the information about a "sneak peak" of a product.

What? You think if the comments are negative Tim Cook is going to come out and say 'Just kidding folks, here is the real Mac Pro'?

The things that I value about my Mac Pro are the ability to add cards INSIDE the box, the (for Apple) MASSIVE number of drive connections (ALL of which are filled), and the fact that ALL OF IT is enclosed in the same awesome looking ALUMINUM package.. No plethora of cords and cables and connectors, and needing lots of power plugs either...

Is it big? YES! Is it powerful? YES! Is it expandable? YES! Is it noisy? NO! Is it impressive? YES! Is it upgradable? YES! (Not officially through Apple, but yes, to a point) It it IN MY OPINION a better choice than this new toy? YES! So far, yes! The new one looks like a toy IN MY OPINION. If you don't like it, you are entitled to your own... I could change my opinion, but at this moment, I am going to be looking for a way to upgrade the processing power of my current machine... Sorry...

EDIT: It looks interesting. Having seen the website just now, I can say that it needs more memory slots, and the design of the tube is interesting, but it could have been accomplished with a rectangular design allowing for a slot to install a Firewire port. As an aside, they could hae built a DVD drive into the top of the thing... Just sayin'...

 

[Xiroteus]

Apple just needs to give people more options.

If you need more static storage it will cost too much or need external drives along with a possible optical drive and that seems off needing that many externals for a desktop aside from backups.

 

[DeepIn2U]

wohooooooo
cant wait for all the cable mess from external storage. Sweet stuff.

Cant see the GPU's being upgradable, but we will see about that.

Also I doubt it will run as cool as the old one, there is no space in there for sufficient amount of fans and airflow. Hope its not going to be a loud machine under load.

Sigh, they should kept it simple I think.

Great to see they finally have done something new though

Look at the VERY bottom of the GPU chipsets ... they look like cards bolted down using TORX screws with an interface. I think it IS possible but probably voids warranty if user completed.

We used to think not enough airflow with NO fan was a heat issue under load with the Power Mac G4 Cube

The Cube is all grown up ... it's not The Tube!

Prosumers I think will connect this to their home entertainment systems using an Ultra HD TV or HDTV as the main monitor.

2013 Mac Pro = check
HDTV/Ultra HDTV = check
Thunderbolt storage in separate area of entertainment stand = check
Long length TB cables with adapters to connect sound card = maybe,
-or- connect to amp and use the Amp to connect Guitar/Drum Kit ??
PS4/3 = check

My personal Remington Steel computing system is going to be ready

 

[NaiGuy]

For me its a Love/Hate thing. I love it, but I hate it. The Design is nice, and I believe it is the feature of computing. However, I think its too soon. I personally still think we need internal expansion.

CPU: Single CPU setups only? The Limitations of this design are already showing. While Its just speculation its very likely.

GPU: Dual GPUs is nice, and I'm sure the FirePro is powerful, but we don't know what the exact model is atm. and I'm sure it will be outdated by the time it hits the shelfs considering how quickly GPUs get outdated.

RAM: Only 4 slots, DDR3 meh.

Thunderbolt 2, USB 3, Still has Ethernet thankfully, HDMI I like the ports. But I feel like its apple abusing there rights to thunderbolt to milk money rather then keeping with simple internal expansion and standard Hard Drives.

Apple is starting to go down hill again, While there known for bringing new technology and such to the mainstream market, I think there taking to many steps forward, too fast.