Apple Offers to Open NFC Payment Technology to Third-Party Developers in Europe

[red elma]

Eventually the consumer will get screwed over in the name of "free trade" laws and regulations...

 

[3304614]

The problem is when you have different credit card for different kick backs.

I have one credit card which give kick backs when used in super markets and other stores which mainly sell food.
No other credit card in Norway offers this.

If this bank decided to drop Apple Pay, I would have no replacement. I would then have begin using a physical card again.

No, you wouldn’t need to use your physical card again (unless you wanted to). If whatever bank you have your credit card decided to drop Apple Pay, that bank would just use the NFC functionality in the iPhone (without having to pay Apple a percentage of the transaction). That’s what’s being proposed here.

 

[jz0309]

Or the bank can just integrate the mobile payment function with their existing banking app that you likely already have.

If someone has a Chase credit card, for example, chances are that person already has the Chase banking app installed. I mean how else is that person going to pay their credit card bill, redeem their credit card points, activate quarterly 5% bonus category offers, and other special offers? Doing all that through a web browser would be such a PITA.

well, for one, web browsers are still being used and they work ...
So if I have 4 credit cards from 4 different banks I need to invoke a specific app for my NFC payment (and who knows how many clicks to get there), and, if I want to use my Apple Watch, said bank has to have a watch app with NFC functionality ... sure, if that is what you prefer over me double-clicking the side button of my watch and then swiping which card I want to use - be my guest. Is you scenario more user friendly? Hardly ...

 

[Sophisticatednut]

The EU has already decided security is not relevant to the iPhone experience. iPhone users in the EU will probably be enjoying a future with scams and phishing.

the EU does not care about security and good business solutions. they want to regulate everything and everyone. thats the big picture. i dont think that so called experts in the EU administration are real experts.

Again less choice for consumers. A specific bank might want to use their own app instead of Apple Pay. Now it’s less choice for the consumer.

Getting Apple Pay acceptance in the uS was a huge win for apple and for consumers. These “open ‘em up” regulations are a step back, in my opinion..

Another small frog added to the simmering pot of government overreach. The EU absolutely will not stop, ever, until they’ve reduced iOS security to a pile of burning embers. And folk are championing their efforts as if it’s all in the name of the end user. Lol.

If only EU didn’t already have a much harsher security standard for financial transactions and banking compared to the U.S., and way less card related fraud.

The fact electronic ID have been mandatory for more than a decade already and is needed to verify new bank transactions as standard

But sure go ahead and use a normal password instead

 

[steve09090]

Maybe EU could force Tim Cook to show them how to run a business too. Couldn’t hurt.

 

[jdphoto]

No, you wouldn’t need to use your physical card again (unless you wanted to). Whatever bank you have your credit card decided to drop Apple Pay , that bank would just use the NFC functionality in the iPhone (without having to pay Apple). That’s what’s being proposed here.

Right, but not sure if this is what they were implying, but my concern would be then all my cards would not be in one place; I'd have to go to different apps for different cards. Which is in my opinion a terrible user experience. I want all my cards regardless of whatever bank, in one single app, no exceptions.

 

[jdphoto]

I'd prefer the user to have control whether they want Apple to manage payments or Google or their bank directly.

Would you then be open to mandating all banks that use the NFC chip in the iPhone directly also support Apple Pay/Wallet so that choice is a reality? I'd think that'd only be a fair trade off.

 

[I7guy]

If only EU didn’t already have a much harsher security standard for financial transactions and banking compared to the U.S., and way less card related fraud.

The fact electronic ID have been mandatory for more than a decade already and is needed to verify new bank transactions as standard

But sure go ahead and use a normal password instead

I got it. Fraud, malware, scamware and phishware are non-existent in the EU.

 

[I7guy]

I knew you would be here old boy, talking your book.

Here's to a level playing field.

Where the criminals reign supreme old chap.

 

[I7guy]

Then just go with a different bank? You know, more choices?

But there is a point in that at least in some markets, the option between banks is certainly limited. But that problem is hardly solved by Apple Pay in this situation.

Where I live all of the major banks has Apple Pay already now, and very unlikely they'll roll that back (and if they did you can just swap to another card issuer).

I'd be more worried if I was VISA or Mastercard, as with this (afaik) banks or others can technically skip the actual card bit and develop their own solutions. For instance, we already have a widely adopted mobile payment system here that you today use QR codes to scan to pay, and money is drawn directly from your bank account. The system itself is a collaboration between the banks, so it's not a one-bank solution. Now with this, they could maybe further develop that into a NFC system. Either way, it will give you more options, not less right?

It’s not more choices when there’s actually less choice. As the oracle opined:”choice is an illusion…”

 

[Jeaz]

It’s not more choices when there’s actually less choice. As the oracle opined:”choice is an illusion…”

What are you on about? Today, there's Apple Pay or nothing at all. With this change, there's Apple Pay plus whatever other services there'll be around. How is that less?

 

[Jeaz]

The problem is when you have different credit card for different kick backs.

I have one credit card which give kick backs when used in super markets and other stores which mainly sell food.
No other credit card in Norway offers this.

If this bank decided to drop Apple Pay, I would have no replacement. I would then have begin using a physical card again.

But who's saying they are dropping Apple Pay? Apple Pay is already widely adopted so it would be hard to roll back. And if they did, they'd bring in some alternative surely, so you could use their solution instead, just not go back to physical card again.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Where the criminals reign supreme old chap.

There is no reason to think that opening up access to the NFC chip to healthy competition will lead to any more fraud and scams that we already see on the app store.

 

[I7guy]

But who's saying they are dropping Apple Pay?

It’s a potential outcome for not paying apple.

Apple Pay is already widely adopted so it would be hard to roll back.

Greedy banks, know no bounds.

And if they did, they'd bring in some alternative surely, so you could use their solution instead, just not go back to physical card again.

Or not. There are still retailers in the US that don’t offer Apple Pay, so it’s not conceivable Apple Pay could disappear in the EU.

 

[I7guy]

There is no reason to think that opening up access to the NFC chip to healthy competition will lead to any more fraud and scams that we already see on the app store.

Yes there is, imo.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I got it. Fraud, malware, scamware and phishware are non-existent in the EU.

Non existent? No, but vastly lower because of better security standards.

1. It helps when you can’t login to someone’s bank with their password when non exist
2. it’s hard to do phishware when the transactions/ logins must be verified in person with the active QR code that changes

And trying to steel card details isn’t that easy either. So leaving the card with a waiter isn’t that common unless you tell them your PIN code.

1. magnetic strips are not allowed
2. Must be chipped
3. pin code must always be entered when using it physically
4. NFC payments above 30$ or so must always be verified with a PIN
5. after 5 or so contactless payments must be verified with a pin
6. Using it online requires a Digital Banking verification.

Or not. There are still retailers in the US that don’t offer Apple Pay, so it’s not conceivable Apple Pay could disappear in the EU.

Considering Apple Pay have about 100% market penetration and exist at 100% of retailers in EU with a card terminal with NFC capability I would say the likelihood is higher of Apple licensing iOS voluntarily to Samsung 😂.

EU kind of mandated that everyone must support Apple Pay

 

[mcnallym]

I just love the subtext that those of us who see this as a good thing aren't end users.

I have no problem admitting that you are an emd user.
I also have no problem telling those of you that see this as a good thing, that you bought the wrong phone, amd should have bought a phone using Android or android fork.
they have everything that you see as a good thing.

 

[I7guy]

Non existent? No, but vastly lower because of better security standards.

1. It helps when you can’t login to someone’s bank with their password when non exist
2. it’s hard to do phishware when the transactions/ logins must be verified in person with the active QR code that changes

And trying to steel card details isn’t that easy either. So leaving the card with a waiter isn’t that common unless you tell them your PIN code.

1. magnetic strips are not allowed
2. Must be chipped
3. pin code must always be entered when using it physically
4. NFC payments above 30$ or so must always be verified with a PIN
5. after 5 or so contactless payments must be verified with a pin
6. Using it online requires a Digital Banking verification.

Considering Apple Pay have about 100% market penetration and exist at 100% of retailers in EU with a card terminal with NFC capability I would say the likelihood is higher of Apple licensing iOS voluntarily to Samsung 😂.

EU kind of mandated that everyone must support Apple Pay

These new regs are going to open an entire can of worms. With the iPhone as we all have seen if criminals wants to be inventive, in the negative sense, they can be very creative.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

These new regs are going to open an entire can of worms. With the iPhone as we all have seen if criminals wants to be inventive, in the negative sense, they can be very creative.

Perhaps, but do you have anything to base it on except gut feelings?

Android have had their NFC open since the beginning and the security doesn’t seem to have been impacted.

Considering iPhone has a much larger market share in USA, and EU have a much higher market share of android…

But USA have much more fraud than EU seems to counteract your point.

And contrary to USA, if you have NFC capability in the card terminal you don’t have a choice but to support all NFC cards (including Apple Pay )

 

[steve09090]

Android have had their NFC open since the beginning and the security doesn’t seem to have been impacted.

In 2019, there was an NFC malware that forced a phone to download (side load) an app, not from the Google Play Store. But we know the EU won't force Apple to allow side loading will we?

 

[Alan Wynn]

Good news for those who want to pay for their “medical” marijuana or “dating” services when traveling in the Netherlands.

How does this have any impact on that? If these are legal, and can be paid with a credit card what does this change?

 

[Alan Wynn]

Or the bank can just integrate the mobile payment function with their existing banking app that you likely already have.

In other words, a large bank could require one to use their App and not support Apple Pay. How doe this improve my experience as a consumer? I do not want to have to use many apps to use my cards. Apple Pay provides a secure, single wallet. This is likely to make this less true.

If someone has a Chase credit card, for example, chances are that person already has the Chase banking app installed. I mean how else is that person going to pay their credit card bill, redeem their credit card points, activate quarterly 5% bonus category offers, and other special offers? Doing all that through a web browser would be such a PITA.

Neither my BF nor I have the Chase app on our phones. Do not do any of those things from my phone, but either from my iPad or my Mac. However, do you acknowledge that there is a large chance that Chase would withdraw from Apple Pay if they did this? Is that a better consumer experience?

 

[Jim Lahey]

If only EU didn’t already have a much harsher security standard for financial transactions and banking compared to the U.S., and way less card related fraud.

The fact electronic ID have been mandatory for more than a decade already and is needed to verify new bank transactions as standard

But sure go ahead and use a normal password instead

Yes that may all be so, but I feel that I maybe didn't properly articulate my point. The purpose of the boiling frog metaphor is to illustrate that it isn't about this one thing, or the next thing, or even the one after that. It's to bring attention to the cold reality that the EU will never, ever stop meddling in absolutely everything. Never. One bite of the cherry at a time they will continue incessantly nibbling away until all that's left is the stone. And sooner or later they'll come after something important to you.

You are free to disagree but the 'govern me harder daddy' approach to legislation never ends well.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Developers have had this option on Android for an age. Everybody still uses Google Pay. Even Samsung Pay isn’t very widely used. On iOS people will continue to use Apple Pay and it doesn’t make your device less secure.

As I posted before, in the U.S., Samsung Pay has about 5% of the mobile market and Google Pay is at 3%.

 

[Alan Wynn]

If only EU didn’t already have a much harsher security standard for financial transactions and banking compared to the U.S., and way less card related fraud.

Not really, they just make the card fraud the responsibility of the user. There are many examples of fraud schemes that revolve around chip and pin cards in the EU. This includes studies done by Cambridge and others about the problems.

The fact electronic ID have been mandatory for more than a decade already and is needed to verify new bank transactions as standard

Why should this be mandated by the government? Banks can do this if they think it is worth it to them.