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Hasn't happened on Android, despite apps having access to the NFC.
It has not happened because most Android users in the U.S. do not use any global wallet, so no one cares to do it. As I have pointed out before, 5% of mobile payment transactions are Samsung Pay, and 3% are Google Pay, despite Android have about a 40% market share.
 
At that point they have to decide which country is more important to them, same as if someone wants a payment processor to process payments for Cuban cigars which is mandatory in Germany and Sweden and illegal in the USA.
For Cuban cigars, the U.S. does not prevent U.S. issued cards from processing payments for products that are legal in other countries, but not in the U.S. I have purchased Cuban cigars in Switzerland with my U.S. card many times.
 
Apple’s iron grip over consumers who simply use their phone is loosening by the day. Good.

All well and good except this story ends with the EU having an iron grip over Apple. And considering their designs on subverting end-to-end encryption and forcing the pre-crime surveillance of the proles, we should be very careful what we wish for.
 
Then just go with a different bank? You know, more choices?
So make the bank the dominant player? Using that argument, consumers already have a platform that lets them do this and if they do not like the restriction, they can purchase an Android phone.

Now with this, they could maybe further develop that into a NFC system. Either way, it will give you more options, not less right?

Again, unless the banks were forced to support Apple Pay, it would not give me more choice, but rather less. Look at Walmart which does not support Apple Pay but does its best to pressure consumers to allow direct debit from their bank accounts (something which is much worse for the consumers, and better for Walmart.
 
I'd prefer the user to have control whether they want Apple to manage payments or Google or their bank directly.
That would only be the case if the banks were forced to support Apple Pay. Other wise, the bank decides, not the user.
 
I can already use my bank cards in Apple Pay. Next.
Your bank has to offer Apple Pay if they want to support a mobile wallet on iOS. With this change, they will not have to do so. Given that there are already issuers that do not do so, I would only expect that to increase.
 
No, you wouldn’t need to use your physical card again (unless you wanted to). If whatever bank you have your credit card decided to drop Apple Pay, that bank would just use the NFC functionality in the iPhone (without having to pay Apple a percentage of the transaction). That’s what’s being proposed here.
It would mean I would have to open the alternate App and then use it to pay. Much less convenient than tapping the button on my Apple Watch or iPhone and choosing among the cards in my wallet. What is being proposed here is giving the power to the banks. It is much easier for a consumer interested in this option to switch phone brands if this matters to them, than it is for them to switch banks who decide not to support Apple Pay.
 
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So now I have to download each bank's or credit card’s app and use it if I want to pay with that card? Wonderful, how consumer friendly, what amazing choices I now have. Thank you so much regulators!
Yeah, that definitely reduces the convenience factor. Of course some of these apps may have questionable security.
 
So the Wallet App is opened with a convenient double-click on the iPhone and Apple Watch, but to use the banking app with NFC, you’ll have to open the app. I see the EEA wanting it to be more convenient. Perhaps this is a use for the Action button.

[Thanks to @walnuts I can imagine a scenario where my preferred bank card that gives me 5% back on groceries decides it will no longer support Apple Pay, but only their own app that I have to open separately.] [And not just banks, but retail stores could choose their own bank cards and apps over participating in Apple Pay.]
That last part is the part id like to avoid. I dont want these third parties to have all my perchase information beyond the payment itself and what was purchased.
 
So now I have to download each bank's or credit card’s app and use it if I want to pay with that card? Wonderful, how consumer friendly, what amazing choices I now have. Thank you so much regulators!
The road to hell was paved with good intentions.
 
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In 2019, there was an NFC malware that forced a phone to download (side load) an app, not from the Google Play Store. But we know the EU won't force Apple to allow side loading will we?
The device is still as secure as the OS

And Malware can currently be installed through the iPhones NFC chip and is completely irrelevant for if it’s open, and has always had the ability to install malware from compromised NFC tags.

iPhone being infected through NFC when powerd off
And
In 2023 iOS malware attack through iMessage is actively infecting iPhones

Not really, they just make the card fraud the responsibility of the user. There are many examples of fraud schemes that revolve around chip and pin cards in the EU. This includes studies done by Cambridge and others about the problems.
Perhaps use something more present. As such things have been counteracted.

€5.40 trillion in 2021, of which €1.53 billion (0.028%) was fraudulent. In 2021 the total value of CNP fraud amounted to €1.28

In 2021, card fraud as a share of the total value of payments using cards issued in SEPA was at its lowest level (0.028%) since 2008 since the Eurosystem started to collect such information.

The market-wide implementation of the RTS for SCA and CSC appears to have strongly reduced the occurrence of card fraud in 2021, both in absolute and relative terms. A steep decline is registered in CNP fraud, due to the widespread adoption of the 3D Secure standard to support strong customer authentication, as required by the RTS for SCA and CSC.

Why should this be mandated by the government? Banks can do this if they think it is worth it to them.
Are you asking why the government should be mandating high banking security standards? Why the government should mandate high transactional security verification?
 
So make the bank the dominant player? Using that argument, consumers already have a platform that lets them do this and if they do not like the restriction, they can purchase an Android phone.

Again, unless the banks were forced to support Apple Pay, it would not give me more choice, but rather less. Look at Walmart which does not support Apple Pay but does its best to pressure consumers to allow direct debit from their bank accounts (something which is much worse for the consumers, and better for Walmart.
Again being a dominant player is completely legal. And why is it always the question of buying android is the answer? Why not change your bank instead?

And we can look at Walmart, if a single store did that in EU they would be breaking the law.
 
Not really, they just make the card fraud the responsibility of the user. There are many examples of fraud schemes that revolve around chip and pin cards in the EU. This includes studies done by Cambridge and others about the problems.

Why should this be mandated by the government? Banks can do this if they think it is worth it to them.
Hmm, yes card skimming is a possibility with any chip/pin device, heck even online if you aren't at the real website or in a man-in-the-middle attack. Easy solution, don't use those machines, it's 2024 you can do instant transfers, who needs cash? :p And if you must, go to one that is inside a bank.

The other thing is the intercept of the card details, or cloning. Now that is where Apple Pay is actually pretty awesome as it doesn't transfer those card details, it transfers the Apple Pay token instead.

Yes, the link is valid at the time, but even in 2015 it wasn't wholly applicable and getting out of date. Today, yes be aware of ATM skimming scams, but otherwise it's not a big deal.
 
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It would mean I would have to open the alternate App and then use it to pay. Much less convenient than tapping the button on my Apple Watch or iPhone and choosing among the cards in my wallet. What is being proposed here is giving the power to the banks. It is much easier for a consumer interested in this option to switch phone brands if this matters to them, than it is for them to switch banks who decide not to support Apple Pay.
Exactly that! It would be a right faff if I had to choose between several different apps to make a payment. And let's not forget that Apple Wallet isn't just for bank cards, my reservations, loyalty cards etc are in it. Check-outs will be fun with people messaging about with several apps.

For me, it would be like the early days of Apple Pay, I decided my bank based on those who supported it as the convenience was more important than the differentiators provided between the banks.
 
I have to hope that UK is NOT included with that. I know UK not in EU but Apple might just treat all Europe same even they are not in EU.

I am bit worried about this because if banks allow have access to NFC which means they can withdraw from Apple Pay and use their banking app and I do not want that happen. I want keep Apple Pay. Banks do withdraw features all time if they find other way better for them (not customers).
 
Yes that may all be so, but I feel that I maybe didn't properly articulate my point. The purpose of the boiling frog metaphor is to illustrate that it isn't about this one thing, or the next thing, or even the one after that. It's to bring attention to the cold reality that the EU will never, ever stop meddling in absolutely everything. Never. One bite of the cherry at a time they will continue incessantly nibbling away until all that's left is the stone. And sooner or later they'll come after something important to you.

You are free to disagree but the 'govern me harder daddy' approach to legislation never ends well.
I don’t know if you know how EU works but these things are brought by the member states and is necessary in order for 27 countries to work together.

And it’s a little different from how the USA does it, but it’s essentially business as usual from a European perspective. We value an effective government
 
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I have to hope that UK is NOT included with that. I know UK not in EU but Apple might just treat all Europe same even they are not in EU.

I am bit worried about this because if banks allow have access to NFC which means they can withdraw from Apple Pay and use their banking app and I do not want that happen. I want keep Apple Pay. Banks do withdraw features all time if they find other way better for them (not customers).
Banks have access to Android NFC and still don’t bother. It’s nothing to worry about.
 
However, do you acknowledge that there is a large chance that Chase would withdraw from Apple Pay if they did this? Is that a better consumer experience?

i do not acknowledge chase would do that and i actually think you’re a paranoid apple fanboy for thinking the largest bank in america would pull their cards from apple pay
 
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