Apple Officially Obsoletes First MacBook Pro With a Retina Display

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

✓ MagSafe
✓ Glowing Apple
✓ SD Card slot
✓ HDMI port
✓ Optical Audio Out
✓ Reliable Keyboard
✓ No T2 Kernel Panics
✓ No soldered storage
✓ No Dongle Hell
✓ No Emoji Bar

✓ MagSafe adapters available for less than $10
✓ It's a company logo...
✓ Dongle - $5, hub - $20
✓ Dongle - $5, hub - $20
✓ Pros that require optical audio use a separate interface
✓ Magic Keyboard is great
✓ T2 Kernel Panics were fixed months ago
✓ You want a larger-but-removable component, then make the trade-off with something else...
✓ It's only 'hell' if you purchase individual dongles rather a cheap, small hub, and use all the particular I/O every day
✓ System Preferences > Keyboard > 'Press Fn key to Show App Controls', Touch Bar shows Expanded Control Strip.

Problems solved!

 

[MikhailT]

Yes it is, I agree that Hardware should be built to last a long time, but its is also True that my maxed out 2012 in CPU performance was only 12-15% worse than the maxed out 2015 and if i chose the mid-range 2015 my 2012 would beat it.
its also only about a 15% performance improvement 2015 vs the 2018 i7 the only one with significant performance improvement is some heavily threaded multicore aware workloads was the i9.

thats a failure of intel.
Macs have always had long shelf lives, multiple things can be true at once.

Multiple things can be true but correlation is between two subjects, you're implied that having a very long lifespan of Macs is the direct demonstration of Intel "failures" but if we change it to: Macs only last 3 years, does that change the fact about Intel current issues? Change it to lasting 50 years, still doesn't change anything. How about all PC laptops? They have the same problems as Macs. You can get Dell laptop that last just as long. There isn't a correlation between Mac's lifespan and Intel's "failures" you're talking about.

Intel CPUs are still running well in 8 year old rMBPs, that's not a demonstration of an Intel failure.

Even if there's a new MBP that has 1000x faster the perf of my `12 rMBP, I still wouldn't buy it because the laptop is fast enough for me now. There's not enough software to justify the cost of a new laptop.

I understand what you're trying to say; Macs only last this long because Intel doesn't increase their performance fast enough to make people want to buy new ones to the point that not many Macs last that long, which is not what you said at first and even if you did, it's not true in some cases like mine.

 

[BeefCake 15]

If it wasn't for the fact that I have to keep my 2012 RMBP plugged in after the battery died from liquid damage, I would not be eyeing the Apple Silicon version coming out. still handles everything like a champ.

 

[Nathan W]

I'm typing on a Mid 2012 MBP right now. I use it every day and have for the past 8 years.
It has 16 GB of RAM, 2.6 GHz i7 and a 500 GB SSD. It's a very capable machine. I did change the batter on it a few years ago but otherwise this thing is a tank.

I hate that I can't get Big Sur on it. I know it would run it just fine.
I'll wait another year until the new ones with Apple Silicon are out and then upgrade.

 

[Pipper99]

My mid 2012 RMBP is still going strong, and it feels as fast and smooth as the day that I got it. The battery is at 80%, but I still love this laptop.

 

[Anarchy99]

Multiple things can be true but correlation is between two subjects, you're implied that having a very long lifespan of Macs is the direct demonstration of Intel failures but if we change it to: Macs only last 3 years, is that change the fact about Intel current failures? Change it to lasting 50 years, still doesn't change anything. How about all PC laptops? They have the same problems as Macs. You can get Dell laptop that last just as long. There isn't a correlation between Mac's lifespan and Intel's failures you're talking about.

Intel CPUs are still running well in 8 year old rMBPs, that's not a demonstration of an Intel failure.

Even if there's a new MBP that has 1000x faster the perf of my `12 rMBP, I still wouldn't buy it because the laptop is fast enough for me now. There's not enough software to justify the cost of a new laptop.

I understand what you're trying to say; Macs only last this long because Intel doesn't increase their performance fast enough to make people want to buy new ones to the point that not many Macs last that long, which is not what you said at first and even if you did, it's not true in some cases like mine.

i didnt imply anything build quality and usefulness of old macs have always made them functionally obsolesce slower than Windows PCs even prior to intel's current years of troubles.

the fact a 2012 is still a good performer today statistically today is directly because of lack of performance gains over the last few years at intel both things are true.


go look at earlier performance gains from intel on older intel macs and even though they also had a similarly long lifespan and to this day are useful because of build quality and usefulness etc.
their performance was not as close as the modern ones that replaced them.

it is a failuire of intel that the performance is as close as it has been the last half-decade to a decade.

im talking percentage performance delta's while acknowledging the "truism" of Mac's have long lifespans you are misinterpreting that to think i only think this mac had a long lifespan because of Intel's failures.

understand the long lifespan thing basically a constant and only tangentially related to the fact intel has been a failure as of late.

 

[BeefCake 15]

✓ MagSafe
✓ Glowing Apple
✓ SD Card slot
✓ HDMI port
✓ Optical Audio Out
✓ Reliable Keyboard
✓ No T2 Kernel Panics
✓ No soldered storage
✓ No Dongle Hell
✓ No Emoji Bar

1. I like MagSafe, too bad it's gone.
2. Cool but not a deal breaker.
3. Barely use it except for loading up my Raspbian card.
4. Barely use it with Airplay available, will need it for dual monitors but a dongle is no big deal at that point.
5. never used
6. Definite!
7. bug that gets fixed...
8. but outdated and bulky
9. use of the many ports on the Mac is overhyped, one all-in-one dongle will do it all
10. lol

 

[isohovik]

Well crap... I was just considering replacing the battery on mine. It still runs amazing, but the battery drains fast. Bummer.

​

 

[Darth Tulhu]

If you upgraded every year why did it matter if it didn't have upgradable memory or storage?

Also, the iPad doesn't have those things either. I'm not saying it's a good thing they got rid of it necessarily but I'm not sure why it would be such a deal breaker.

Because I bought into the value aspect of the machines. I would get a good ROI when I sold the old, and third party upgrades were inexpensive.

Until then each machine was better than the last. But with soldering it meant I had to max out the machine at purchase, at Apple prices. It became a bad value (for me) and it was less capable (couldn't RAID anymore, no Ethernet, no more minor repairs).

To this day I'm running on 2011-2012 machines (iMac 27", 17" MBP, 15" MBP) that I could internally upgrade with 2 SSDs, RAID them, provide WAY more storage than Apple could, upgrade RAM, and do minor repairs on. Apple really stopped building them like they used to.

As far as the iPad goes, I can use one now, but I definitely could not do this until THIS year.

I think this is due to a combination of things: tech maturing (Network speeds, cloud storage costs, A-Series processor speeds, available software, etc), my needs changing, and Apple finally giving the iPad the proper text editing capabilities and precision.

 

[calliex]

✓ MagSafe
✓ Glowing Apple
✓ SD Card slot
✓ HDMI port
✓ Optical Audio Out
✓ Reliable Keyboard
✓ No T2 Kernel Panics
✓ No soldered storage
✓ No Dongle Hell
✓ No Emoji Bar

1. Miss this terribly. Want it built in many adapters have issues
2. not a deal breaker
3. did not use much but liked it was available
4. used a lot when giving presentations. have seen issues with adapters
5. did not use
6. the faulty keyboards is the biggest reason I have not upgraded
7. like the security of T2 but not the bugs it causes
8. like the fact I can change out memory and hard drive on my own
9. if Apple had come out with a reliable hub that would have been good. But the reliability of many are questionable and exspensive.
10 . No need

 

[bkendig]

A few things to remember, those of you who are thinking of buying a new Mac soon and who don't like being obsoleted on an unsupported operating system:

Apple announced the Intel transition in 2005, and macOS dropped support for PowerPC processors in 2009. Now in 2020 the Apple Silicon transition has been announced, so if the same schedule is followed, you'll no longer be able to run the latest macOS on an Intel Mac as of four years from now. (Though it should still run Windows 10 and Linux just fine.)

If you buy an Apple Silicon Mac, it may be supported for a long time, but once support for it ends, you may not be able to put Windows or Linux on it - your alternatives will be to continue using the last version of macOS that it supports, or recycle it like an iPad.

I've enjoyed having Macs that are supported by macOS for a long time and that can run the latest versions of other operating systems once that support ends. I'm not really happy about losing those options.

 

[Crzyrio]

Welp, time to take my Late 2013 rMBP to get a battery replacement before it goes Obsolete.

 

[Hunts17]

I would be interested in the crowd's wisdom.

I have a mid 2012 macbook pro (the last one ever produced with non-ssd (I can’t even remember what these are called now)). I have upgraded to ssd and the machine continues to work perfectly.

I didn’t upgrade over the years because of the scissor keyboard, which has now been fixed. Have been close to buying a 10th gen pro machine recently launched but now Apple announced the move to ARM.

What would you do in my position? Wait for the ARM MacBook or just bite the bullet and get an Intel 10th gen? I’m always a bit concerned about having out of date software for security reasons.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

I think it’s ok to not have to upgrade every year mind you, they do last long and perform great as long as the hardware/software support is there... I think it’s better to spec it out to your needs with a bit more for leeway. However for yearly upgrades that becomes a non-issue, if one year the SSD size was too tight, well then, double down the very next year or even return swap for other specs.

Now, an iPad is already all soldered, non upgradeable in every way and a more limited OS (although honestly, I use it 90% of the time or 100% if you count sidecar when on the main desktop).

What about the ARM Macs? Would that be closer to what the iPad offers and the Mac offers in a single device? Would that revive the mac in your view?

I didn't have to upgrade every year, I just wanted to because the machines were getting noticeably better with each gen. See my previous post for an explanation...

The iPad wasn't usable for me until this year (again, see my previous post).

My migration to the iPad is not due to the Mac being bad (I love macOS), it's just a sign of the times:

- I no longer need the raw power and capabilities Mac hardware provides.
- My kids are grown (and migrated to PCs due to gaming), so I no longer need a "family PC" central hub; iCloud takes care of that
- I have accumulated enough hard drives to populate a NAS device for the foreseeable future, and cloud storage is cheap
- I have a work-issued laptop PC
- An iPad can now handle everything I use a computer for, and I think the value (cost vs what you get) is right

So once the next iPad gen is released, my Macs will be sold and I'll probably never look back (unless my work issues me one).

 

[boss.king]

✓ It's only 'hell' if you purchase individual dongles rather a cheap, small hub, and use all the particular I/O every day

I have a good hub and individual dongles, plus I've swapped a lot of my USB A cables for USB C ones. It's still dongle hell.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

I would be interested in the crowd's wisdom.

I have a mid 2012 macbook pro (the last one ever produced with non-ssd (I can’t even remember what these are called now)). I have upgraded to ssd and the machine continues to work perfectly.

I didn’t upgrade over the years because of the scissor keyboard, which has now been fixed. Have been close to buying a 10th gen pro machine recently launched but now Apple announced the move to ARM.

What would you do in my position? Wait for the ARM MacBook or just bite the bullet and get an Intel 10th gen? I’m always a bit concerned about having out of date software for security reasons.

I'd wait if I were you.

The mid-2012 Macs go up to the current OS (Catalina). I have mine at Mojave, and everything works like a champ.

Then again, you can take the plunge, then sell the new one if and when the A-Macs come out and people A/B them.

 

[tedwill]

Mine keeps up quite well with brand new work laptops. The SSD and the video make it amazingly fast. The weakness of all computers are spinning disks. The SSD drive was the game changer. Sure, I'd love a faster machine for video and photo editing, but I can wait longer.

 

[needsomecoffee]

Got a like-new 2012 13 inch a few years ago for $500. Put in 16 gig ram, 500gig Samsung SSD, and replaced the battery - easily done all by myself. Fantastic laptop. Still as fast as I could want (development, Adobe, Affinity). Only time I think about a new computer is for editing video. Looking for another for the spouse. They still sell for around $500 used, but are getting harder to find. Best, most reliable laptop Apple ever made so I think many owners are feeling happy and not wanting to let them go. Do yourself a favor and try to find a good one used. I would love to buy another, faster Mac laptop, but really do not like the tradeoffs needed to get thinner, and locked down. Re: not getting newest Mac OS. Ask yourself what is the real benefit to you of Apple's newer OS features ?? May not be as mandatory as hard-core Apple fans purport.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Quick thought regarding the lauded and missed MagSafe: It sucks.

I used to LOVE it. The idea and performance was second to none.

But they would fray QUICK at the connection point. Sometimes I had to slightly reposition the connector so it would actually charge my laptop (I'd get a dim green light instead of orange). I'm still going through this.

Replacing them each time cost roughly $75.

And if you forgot, lost, broke your charger while traveling...good luck getting one fast.

I think the move to (the now ubiquitous) USB-C was the right call, if a little early.

 

[magbarn]

Mine is still running good, but the dGPU is starting to crap out on it. Should've bought the 2015 Model with Intel GPU only. That's likely the most reliable MacBook Pro 15 ever made...
And you can drop pretty much any NVME SSD in it with the exception of Samsung for cheap and fast SSD upgrades.
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Quick thought regarding the lauded and missed MagSafe: It sucks.

I used to LOVE it. The idea and performance was second to none.

But they would fray QUICK at the connection point. Sometimes I had to slightly reposition the connector so it would actually charge my laptop (I'd get a dim green light instead of orange). I'm still going through this.

Replacing them each time cost roughly $75.

And if you forgot, lost, broke your charger while traveling...good luck getting one fast.

I think the move to (the now ubiquitous) USB-C was the right call, if a little early.

The problem with USB C is that the ports get loose over time if used heavily. I babied my MagSafe chargers and have never broken one in over 12 years since my first MagSafe MacBook.

 

[MikhailT]

Mine is still running good, but the dGPU is starting to crap out on it. Should've bought the 2015 Model with Intel GPU only. That's likely the most reliable MacBook Pro 15 ever made...
And you can drop pretty much any NVME SSD in it with the exception of Samsung for cheap and fast SSD upgrades.

You still can. A lot of my dev friends bought 2015 rMBP because they weren't a fan of the latest one (this was before rMBP 16) with unreliable keyboards.

Not one regretted it.

 

[sumva]

Still using the mid 2012 retina MBP 15" as my main daily driver. Happy but it was not trouble free (thankfully I had applecare).

Original LG display replaced under warranty for image retention
Replacement Samsung display developed "mura" issue....replaced under warranty
front facing camera broke...again another replacement screen.
Its on its 3rd battery.
Early 2020 - SSD failure (It was the last thing I expected to fail but replaced with an OWC aura drive)

 

[jlocker]

If it wasn't for the fact that I have to keep my 2012 RMBP plugged in after the battery died from liquid damage, I would not be eyeing the Apple Silicon version coming out. still handles everything like a champ.

Going to take a couple of years to reach macbook pro status with the Apple Silicon. Apple is going to be having x86 around for a long time. If you are looking for a MacBook Air level with like a i5 processor maybe. It is a great time to get a new MacBook Pro for the next 4 years and by then everything should be humming with Apple processors.

 

[nicho]

These MacBook Pros are still going strong today. It’s pretty insane that a 8-year-old device still performs well.

It's pretty insane how much Intel's lack of progress in terms of processor speeds and capabilities have held back computers

How well would an iPhone 4S keep up with a iPhone 11?

 

[nvmls]

8 years, that sure beat my dell which fell apart ( aka obsoleted) after 4. I suppose things are better now. My MBP going strong after 5

Dells are trash, we've had a boatload of them with hardware fails.