Apple on iPhone 4 Reception: Signal Strength Display Issue Only, Software Update Coming

[HLdan]

What's not to get here?

Thank you!

In that thread's reply #7, He explained why he gripped the top, but did not explain why his camera was not showing the good IP4's bottom left corner being gripped for the test duration. He said that he believed the issue was with the top of the phone, and hadn't heard anything about the bottom. He then proceeded to hold the bad IP4 on the bottom immediately after holding the good IP4 from the top.
That video is inconclusive at best. Sorry.

I did grip the Good iPhone 4 on the bottom left side. What you (or someone, can't remember) asked me is to why I didn't grip the "bottom" of the good iPhone 4, not the bottom left. During the first 20 seconds of my video clearly shows my thumb on the bottom left of the good iPhone 4 where the seam joins, that's the bottom part people have been talking about it. Not sure why you feel the video is inconclusive at best?

 

[wovel]

Thank you!



I did grip the Good iPhone 4 on the bottom left side. What you (or someone, can't remember) asked me is to why I didn't grip the "bottom" of the good iPhone 4, not the bottom left. During the first 20 seconds of my video clearly shows my thumb on the bottom left of the good iPhone 4 where the seam joins, that's the bottom part people have been talking about it. Not sure why you feel the video is inconclusive at best?

Well your last question is easy. Your video contradicts what he believes true, therefore you did it wrong.

 

[ANTAWNM26]

Hmmm, so all the iphone 4's are shipping with the same software but its a software issue?Hmmmmm,just dont add up Apple. Mine is due to ship July 14, so if its dysfunctional it's going back promptly...

 

[egret]

Not if you've purchased the phone in the UK from Phones4U via a 24-month contract!

"Sorry sir, we have a no-refund policy".

Uh, so I'm stuck with it simply because I didn't buy it outright, even though its the same phone, with the same problem?

Caveat Emptor.

 

[Carniphage]

Not if you've purchased the phone in the UK from Phones4U via a 24-month contract!

"Sorry sir, we have a no-refund policy".

Uh, so I'm stuck with it simply because I didn't buy it outright, even though its the same phone, with the same problem?

Isn't that illegal?
Have you contacted Trading Standards?

C.

 

[-aggie-]

Thank you!

I did grip the Good iPhone 4 on the bottom left side. What you (or someone, can't remember) asked me is to why I didn't grip the "bottom" of the good iPhone 4, not the bottom left. During the first 20 seconds of my video clearly shows my thumb on the bottom left of the good iPhone 4 where the seam joins, that's the bottom part people have been talking about it. Not sure why you feel the video is inconclusive at best?

What this site has become lately is just a place to whine over and over from the same people about the same things. Even one poster admitted that the more noise they make, the more they'll get Apple to do about this (not sure how complaining on MR achieves this, when Apple feedback is more appropriate, but okay?).

Everyone realizes they have reception problems (at least I don't tell them they don't, if that's what they're reporting and which is even backed up by numerous videos showing the effect), but if someone posts that they don't have this issue, then it's GTFO, "You have the problem, but just don't know it." If someone creates a thread to talk about working phones, they come on to tell you you're wrong. So, basically, they don't want to see your posts about actually showing two iPhones do different things. Hell, you had one poster complain that you were separated by 2 feet and in the store! I don't have the problem in various locations, including those with two or fewer bars, but since I don't know of anyone with an iPhone that has the problem, I can't provide the illusive video they want and I'm told my word is no good.

 

[bfar5]

Yeah, I'm not sure why Tonewheel is making such a big deal about this. I have been using MacRumors for a couple of years now, mainly reading the front page for items and occasionally hitting the forums to see what's going on, but never posted, so I never created an account.

I've had 10 Apple Products over the last 5+ years (and currently have 6) and this was the first issue I was ever compelled enough to post on. I have been 100% satisfied with all my Apple products up until this point.

I understand there may be others out there with bad intentions, but whose to say there aren't Apple employees that browse these boards and try to quiet the storm? These employees have probably been around for years, so should I be shady about anyone with too many posts?

I just don't think that is a very valid representation of how long someone has been an Apple fan or any indication that they are just trying to raise a ruckus for personal gain/benefit.

Hey, thanks.

 

[egret]

It's funny now when I think back on it... The Apple employee volunteered the information that it was refundable within 30 days which prompted me to ask him if there was a restocking fee and he said there was NOT. I was surprised at the time that this was part of an obviously scripted process of selling me the IP4... but I was also caught up in all the hype. Now I'm paranoid that this was significant on Apple's part to tell me that. I cant remember if they volunteered this info when I bought two of my kids MBP's, my daughter's 3Gs or my IMac.

Yeah, right.

 

[Tundraboy]

Check this out!!!!

Follow the link girls and boys!!! Interesting signal demo!!!!!
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/06/video-evidence-of-the-iphone-4-death-grip-this-time-with-real/

 

[franswa za]

people......... let's move on...... to another thread? and/or/to complain if we so wish

or hand back your iphone 4 before apple's return policy expires.......

golly gosh, doogness!

i'm dyslectic............ does this help?



mmmmmmm.........doogness should be dogness... or somefink or nofink.......... i presume.........

 

[AttilaTheHun]

software can take care of any problem.REALY?

with software you can shaw 2 or 3 or 4 bars when reception is zero.
or when the screen is blue to shaw white.

 

[franswa za]

with software you can shaw 2 or 3 or 4 bars when reception is zero.
or when the screen is blue to shaw white.

ola, are you dyslectic too?

mmmmmmmm .....straying from this thread........ concentrate people concentrate!

 

[Chimpware]

Follow the link girls and boys!!! Interesting signal demo!!!!!
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/06/video-evidence-of-the-iphone-4-death-grip-this-time-with-real/

That is the best video showing the most scientific data I have seen that mimics the performance issue that I am experiencing.

 

[glossywhite]

^^^ bourgeois, whining girls ^^^

 

[Magnets]

Follow the link girls and boys!!! Interesting signal demo!!!!!
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/06/video-evidence-of-the-iphone-4-death-grip-this-time-with-real/

Before I go any further, I just want to make it clear that I'm not disregarding the fact that the phone gripped in a certain way drops the signal.

I want to ask a question on how this information is presented. Now I'm not going to claim to be some RF expert, so feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

The way I understand it, a perfect, great, fantastic signal for a phone would be -50db, and the call is barely sustainable at -113db, so why does her app show a graph from -120 to -80. If the app showed the scale from -120 to -50, it would be more obvious that the original signal is on the much lower end of the scale, instead of the "Darn Good Reception" that she claims in the first five seconds of her video.

In fact, what I'm taking from this video, is that Apple just might be right, and the signal is being misrepresented by the bars on the device. If the signal strength number is linear (and it's probably not, I'm happy to be corrected here), I'd calculate that it should be barely a 2 bar out of 5 signal to start with, and not a 5 bar "Darn Good Reception".

I keep hearing from people saying that iPhones have always had a bad reputation of dropped calls, but in 2 years of iPhone ownership, I have NEVER had a dropped call. I am also not in the US, and not using AT&T, but instead using the provider in my country that has the best coverage.

The several people I know who also own iPhones (they got one after they played with mine) on the same carrier have also never mentioned call drop outs, but the couple on a smaller carrier say it happens all the time, but they blame their carrier, not their phone. Perhaps this blame should be pushed towards AT&T, as it looks to me like you've been accepting pitiful performance for years, and just been duped by the seemingly high signal indicator on your phones and blamed the phone.

I could also be full of it, and not know what I'm talking about, but I'm still eager to pick up the iPhone 4 when it gets released here later this month and try it for myself. If the signal problem does affect me, then I'll return it and get my money back.

 

[ANTAWNM26]

What this site has become lately is just a place to whine over and over from the same people about the same things. Even one poster admitted that the more noise they make, the more they'll get Apple to do about this (not sure how complaining on MR achieves this, when Apple feedback is more appropriate, but okay?).



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[Chimpware]

Before I go any further, I just want to make it clear that I'm not disregarding the fact that the phone gripped in a certain way drops the signal.

I want to ask a question on how this information is presented. Now I'm not going to claim to be some RF expert, so feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

The way I understand it, a perfect, great, fantastic signal for a phone would be -50db, and the call is barely sustainable at -113db, so why does her app show a graph from -120 to -80. If the app showed the scale from -120 to -50, it would be more obvious that the original signal is on the much lower end of the scale, instead of the "Darn Good Reception" that she claims in the first five seconds of her video.

In fact, what I'm taking from this video, is that Apple just might be right, and the signal is being misrepresented by the bars on the device. If the signal strength number is linear (and it's probably not, I'm happy to be corrected here), I'd calculate that it should be barely a 2 bar out of 5 signal to start with, and not a 5 bar "Darn Good Reception".

I keep hearing from people saying that iPhones have always had a bad reputation of dropped calls, but in 2 years of iPhone ownership, I have NEVER had a dropped call. I am also not in the US, and not using AT&T, but instead using the provider in my country that has the best coverage.

The several people I know who also own iPhones (they got one after they played with mine) on the same carrier have also never mentioned call drop outs, but the couple on a smaller carrier say it happens all the time, but they blame their carrier, not their phone. Perhaps this blame should be pushed towards AT&T, as it looks to me like you've been accepting pitiful performance for years, and just been duped by the seemingly high signal indicator on your phones and blamed the phone.

I could also be full of it, and not know what I'm talking about, but I'm still eager to pick up the iPhone 4 when it gets released here later this month and try it for myself. If the signal problem does affect me, then I'll return it and get my money back.

Regardless of the starting point and how many bars -95 DB would represent properly, we can all agree that complete loss of signal by holding your phone in a fairly common way in your left hand is not optimal.

Again for the probably thousandth time I will post that one persons rhetorical experience is not relevant to this discussion, it adds almost nothing to the points being made as it does not refute the fact that there is an issue, nor does it confirm any counter point.

I am glad your experience with the iPhone has been good. I hope your luck extends to the new iPhone and am very excited that you will return it if it has an issue. To be honest regardless of the phone, or the service, someone who claims that they have never had a dropped call in 2 years is not likely remembering properly, or typically stands in one place making calls and never moves from an area of high signal strength.

 

[Chimpware]

What this site has become lately is just a place to whine over and over from the same people about the same things. Even one poster admitted that the more noise they make, the more they'll get Apple to do about this (not sure how complaining on MR achieves this, when Apple feedback is more appropriate, but okay?).



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Why not at least wait until you have an iPhone 4 before posting in a thread discussing the experience of owning it? Yours is due on the 15th isn't it?

 

[firewood]

If the signal strength number is linear (and it's probably not, I'm happy to be corrected here)...

It's not linear. It's logarithmic. Each "bar" looks like it's a factor of somewhere in the range of 3X to 10X.

And the difference, on an i4, between the minimum for an indicated 5 bars and the -51 dBM max is a factor of around 10,000X. So if the scale were linear, a typical signal would almost always be a tiny microscopic fraction of the 1st bar, which is why they don't do it linearly. But that fact should also give you a feel for why very tiny changes in signal strength at barely 5 bars can result in a complete communication failure.

 

[Magnets]

To be honest regardless of the phone, or the service, someone who claims that they have never had a dropped call in 2 years is not likely remembering properly, or typically stands in one place making calls and never moves from an area of high signal strength.

Maybe I don't move from areas of high signal strength. As I said, I use a carrier that has outstanding coverage in a country that has a relatively low population. What's the biggest difference between you and I? I don't use AT&T.

 

[firewood]

Regardless of the starting point and how many bars -95 DB would represent properly, we can all agree that complete loss of signal by holding your phone in a fairly common way in your left hand is not optimal.

We don't agree, because it's not a complete loss. One report measures the loss at 24 dB, which if you start out with a signal in the range of -85 dBm or more, results in plenty of signal left to not drop a call.

And many other brands of cell phone also show smaller but still severe signal losses when the phone in held your "fairly common" way. But if you start with a more sensitive antenna, such as the i4 has, in the first place, you can still hold a call even with an equivalently greater signal loss.

 

[rhanley]

We don't agree, because it's not a complete loss. One report measures the loss at 24 dB, which if you start out with a signal in the range of -85 dBm or more, results in plenty of signal left to not drop a call.

And many other brands of cell phone also show smaller but still severe signal losses when the phone in held your "fairly common" way. But if you start with a more sensitive antenna, such as the i4 has, in the first place, you can still hold a call even with an equivalently greater signal loss.

blah ---- don't tout the i4 antenna when it doesn't measure up to the iphone 1G, 3G, and 3GS models when it comes to areas with a less than optimal reception.

It is very, very, very clear that there are areas where reception with previous models was bad, but still tolerable. In these same ares, the i4 drops within seconds when holding the phone in a way that a lot of us feel very comfortable with (all it takes is touching the 'sweet spot' on the phone, not a gorilla grip).

Firewood has continued his db argument page after page, any many pro-Apple posters have continued to source the anandtech article as proof that the i4 antenna is superior to everything (including previous iphone version), but even the anantech article states the following:

"Add in an external antenna you're essentially forced to touch and bridge to another adjacent antenna while holding, and the signal attenuation is even worse. The fact of the matter is that either the most sensitive region of the antenna should have an insulative coating, or everyone should use a case. For a company that uses style heavily as a selling point, the latter isn't an option. And the former would require an unprecedented admission of fault on Apple's part."

and

"The drop in signal from holding the phone with your left hand arguably remains a problem. Changing the bars visualization may indeed help mask it, and to be fair the phone works fine all the way down to -113 dBm, but it will persist - software updates can change physics as much as they can change hardware design. At the end of the day, Apple should add an insulative coating to the stainless steel band, or subsidize bumper cases. It's that simple."

Give me a GD free bumper and I'm satisfied.

Pretend this is a GUI issue and offer no other explanation, and I'm pissed.

As I have said many times on this thread, I feel that is fair.

 

[kdarling]

The way I understand it, a perfect, great, fantastic signal for a phone would be -50db, and the call is barely sustainable at -113db, so why does her app show a graph from -120 to -80.

Many phones will show 5 bars at around -80, so it's considered a good signal.

In fact, what I'm taking from this video, is that Apple just might be right, and the signal is being misrepresented by the bars on the device.

Everyone agrees that Apple was making the signal look better than it was.

Apple was showing 5 bars all the way down to -91db, which other phones usually display as only 3 or 4 bars. And showing 4 bars down to -101db, where other phones would be displaying 1 or 2 bars.

However, the overly-optimistic bar display has nothing to do with the antenna drastically losing signal when covered. It simply explains why some people still manage to stay connected, and some don't, even if they both start with the iPhone showing "five" bars, because the "five" covers so much territory.

 

[rhanley]

Many phones will show 5 bars at around -80, so it's considered a good signal.

Everyone agrees that Apple was making the signal look better than it was.

Apple was showing 5 bars all the way down to -91db, which other phones usually display as only 3 or 4 bars. And showing 4 bars down to -101db, where other phones would be displaying 1 or 2 bars.

However, the overly-optimistic bar display has nothing to do with the antenna drastically losing signal when covered. It simply explains why some people still manage to stay connected, and some don't, even if they both start with the iPhone showing "five" bars, because the "five" covers so much territory.

I wish this was posted at the top of every page

 

[Magnets]

Many phones will show 5 bars at around -80, so it's considered a good signal.

Q. But if it's considered just a 'good signal', why did the display show it as the maximum signal
A. Because if it looked like this at the start:

                                     - 81

                 - 97    X                              - 65
                             X
    - 113                       X                                      - 50
                                    X
                                       X

(Please excuse my terrible ASCII art) Then she couldn't have said she had a 'Darn Good Reception'

However, the overly-optimistic bar display has nothing to do with the antenna drastically losing signal when covered.

How much does it lose? Worst case scenario 24dB (source Anandtech)
How much do other phones lose? Nexus One? 17.7 according to Anandtech, but up to 30dB according to Google's Support Forum
HTC Droid? 16dB (source A random Youtube Video)
Nokia phones even have a handy little picture in their manual saying not to touch the phone in pretty much the same area affected by the "Death Grip" Source

All phones will lose signal if you cover the antenna. Yes, the iPhone 4's seems to be a little worse than others, but not by that much. If you start in a bad signal area, you have less to lose. If you find yourself constantly in these bad coverage areas, your angst is best aimed at the service providing the coverage.