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Apple on iPhone 4 Reception: Signal Strength Display Issue Only, Software Update Coming

rhanley said:
...don't tout the i4 antenna when it doesn't measure up to the iphone 1G, 3G, and 3GS models when it comes to areas with a less than optimal reception.
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The opposite is true. And according to reports, the i4 will connect in places with a signal level down to as low as -113 dBm, which appears to be measurably less the minimum signal level required by the 3G and 3GS (and some other brands of cell phones) to connect at all, given proper and optimal operation of each model.

My i4 seems to show a 1-bar signal in places when my 3GS showed no signal at all. Those are usually places where I am driving, thus using a Bluetooth or wired headset as required by California law, and not holding the phone.
 
Magnets said:
Q. But if it's considered just a 'good signal', why did the display show it as the maximum signal
A. Because if it looked like this at the start:
Code: 
                                     - 81

                 - 97    X                              - 65
                             X
    - 113                       X                                      - 50
                                    X
                                       X
(Please excuse my terrible ASCII art) Then she couldn't have said she had a 'Darn Good Reception'


How much does it lose? Worst case scenario 24dB (source Anandtech)
How much do other phones lose? Nexus One? 17.7 according to Anandtech, but up to 30dB according to Google's Support Forum
HTC Droid? 16dB (source A random Youtube Video)
Nokia phones even have a handy little picture in their manual saying not to touch the phone in pretty much the same area affected by the "Death Grip" Source

All phones will lose signal if you cover the antenna. Yes, the iPhone 4's seems to be a little worse than others, but not by that much. If you start in a bad signal area, you have less to lose. If you find yourself constantly in these bad coverage areas, your angst is best aimed at the service providing the coverage.
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Let's just clarify a few points:

1. The iPhone 4 has almost twice the attenuation the Nexus One has while holding it naturally (19.8 vs. 10.7). No one cares if you can hold a phone in an unnatural way and cause attenuation when this will never happen in normal use.

2. The Nokia manual you sited simply states don't touch the antennas, which are located based on the diagram shown on the bottom of the phone where you would not normally touch them in normal operation. Possibly you should have fired this off to Steve Jobs before they released the iPhone 4, it would have good advice then.

The overwhelming fact is that the iPhone 4 design is flawed and when used in a normal manner suffers signal attenuation that results in dropped calls and loss of data communications in situations where the signal is anything but very good. These are the simple facts of the situation.
 
Magnets said:
Q. But if it's considered just a 'good signal', why did the display show it as the maximum signal
Click to expand...

Who knows? :)

Perhaps -80 is the highest she gets in her home.

All phones will lose signal if you cover the antenna.
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Yep. And I don't think this would be as big a deal if Apple went public with more information and tests to demonstrate that, instead of looking silly by pretending there's no problem at all.
 
firewood said:
We don't agree, because it's not a complete loss. One report measures the loss at 24 dB, which if you start out with a signal in the range of -85 dBm or more, results in plenty of signal left to not drop a call.

And many other brands of cell phone also show smaller but still severe signal losses when the phone in held your "fairly common" way. But if you start with a more sensitive antenna, such as the i4 has, in the first place, you can still hold a call even with an equivalently greater signal loss.
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Ahhh but we do agree, you just choose not to see it yet. If your point is can you find areas where the attenuation does not drop calls and data connection while holding the phone in a normal fashion in your left hand, I agree, 20 dB or so of attenuation in some conditions will not result in dropped calls, or data transmission loss. You must also agree that there will be conditions in many places where 20 dB of signal loss (twice what is demonstrated with the Nexus One as an example) would (and does in my experience) result in data transmission loss and dropped calls. It is pretty simple science.

So unless you are proposing only using the phone and holding it in your left hand in areas where the signal is of sufficient strength that the design flaw in the iPhone 4 antenna design does not cause attenuation issues resulting in dropped calls and data transmission loss, then we agree.
 
kdarling said:
Who knows? :)

Perhaps -80 is the highest she gets in her home.



Yep. And I don't think this would be as big a deal if Apple went public with more information and tests to demonstrate that, instead of looking silly by pretending there's no problem at all.
Click to expand...


Or better yet, design the phone do that when you hold it in your hand normally you are not contacting the antenna? Would that have not made sense if we start by knowing that contacting the antenna will result in signal attenuation?
 
Chimpware said:
Or better yet, design the phone do that when you hold it in your hand normally you are not contacting the antenna? Would that have not made sense if we start by knowing that contacting the antenna will result in signal attenuation?
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Apple won't let common sense get in the way of "brilliant engineering". ;)

BTW, it's not just "attenuation" as is found in other phones - where holding the region of the case where the antenna is will modestly reduce the signal.

The Iphone 4's problem is that external metal pieces of the case are the actual antennae - and touching them with human fleshy parts drastically changes the RF characteristics of the antennae, and drastically degrades the antenna performance.
 
It's funny... I sold my 32GB iPhone 3GS on eBay for $510 and bought the new iPhone 4 (32GB) for $299 + tax. I thought I got away with murder... looks like I was the idiot who got stuck with a POS!
 
I don't care anymore

I got the bumpers, no more problem.

Plus, I like the way it looks and feels.

Perfect.
 
tempusfugit said:
apparently you haven't used it yet...
Click to expand...

Apparently, neither have some who've been relentlessly critical of the design.

I've experienced no signal problems while touching the antennae, bridging the gap, or using the death grip.

Perhaps it's from a batch which was treated with the allegedly intended non-conductive coating - fewer dropped calls in Manhattan, no dropped calls in NJ, and ridiculously fast 3G download speeds. (~5MB/s) No case required.

With dramatic upgrades in sound quality, screen resolution, camera, video, and processor speed, I've been using the iPad less and less, day to day.

The battery life is also greatly improved - been using it more than the 3GS, and yet, can go through the entire day without a charge.

Best upgrade yet.
 
DMann said:
Perhaps it's from a batch which was treated with the allegedly intended non-conductive coating - fewer dropped calls in Manhattan, no dropped calls in NJ, and ridiculously fast 3G download speeds. (~5MB/s) No case required.
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If this is true Apple should issue a recall on the defective batches and exchange them for new handsets.
 
OllyW said:
If this is true Apple should issue a recall on the defective batches and exchange them for new handsets.
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They could.... but the commercial consequences of a recall would be pretty dire.

People would demand replacements. The replacement stock has not been manufactured. A public relations catastrophe ensues.

A smarter company might issue some kind of statement saying a fix was forthcoming. Use the time to build up replacement stock. And then try and calmly steer the situation back into the positive.

That's what I'd do.

C.
 
OllyW said:
People deserve replacements if they are faulty.
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Of course they are.
Nicely taken out-of-context by the way!

A recall might make people feel better, but they would not get their replacements any faster.

Notice that if people just just want their money back....Apple have already offered that.

C.
 
Carniphage said:
Notice that if people just just want their money back....Apple have already offered that.
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But is that US only?

There was someone who bought their iPhone from Phones4u posting yesterday that they had flatly refused a refund. My 14 days return period with O2 is up today. It doesn't seem to be clear what the situation is here in the UK. :confused:
 
OllyW said:
But is that US only?

There was someone who bought their iPhone from Phones4u posting yesterday that they had flatly refused a refund. My 14 days return period with O2 is up today. It doesn't seem to be clear what the situation is here in the UK. :confused:
Click to expand...

In the UK, goods have to be fit for the purposes sold.
So under British Law you can return any defective product. If Phones4U are trying to get round that, then a visit from Trading Standards might set them straight.

C.
 
Carniphage said:
In the UK, goods have to be fit for the purposes sold.
So under British Law you can return any defective product. If Phones4U are trying to get round that, then a visit from Trading Standards might set them straight.

C.
Click to expand...

At this current time Apple are not admitting the product is faulty and that losing the signal is normal, which I'm sure Phones4u would use in their defence.
 
OllyW said:
At this current time Apple are not admitting the product is faulty and that losing the signal is normal, which I'm sure Phones4u would use in their defence.
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Apple are not a party to the sale. (If they didn't sell the phone).
The contract is between the purchaser and Phones4U. If the purchaser can demonstrate the device is defective, then Trading Standards would support him.

C.
 
OllyW said:
At this current time Apple are not admitting the product is faulty and that losing the signal is normal, which I'm sure Phones4u would use in their defence.
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It must be fit for purpose for the consumer. If the customer does not think it is fit for purpose then it is eligible for a full refund. Whether the retailer thinks it is fit for purpose or not is legally irrelevant.
 
AidenShaw said:
Apple won't let common sense get in the way of "brilliant engineering". ;)

BTW, it's not just "attenuation" as is found in other phones - where holding the region of the case where the antenna is will modestly reduce the signal.

The Iphone 4's problem is that external metal pieces of the case are the actual antennae - and touching them with human fleshy parts drastically changes the RF characteristics of the antennae, and drastically degrades the antenna performance.
Click to expand...

See, Apple is a robot, they don't account for the human squishy factor.

Apple's design is impressive, they just forgot that squishy factor.
 
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