Apple Opposes Proposed Repeal of Clean Power Plan in United States

[IJ Reilly]

You are 100% wrong. Changes to the EPA rules on power plants does add uncertainty to the cost of electricity. The cost of electricity does impact investments by all consumers and large companies.

They might be referring to this, generally, but it's unclear from these minimal excerpts from Apple's comment letter. Presumably they have a more detailed case to make for how abandoning the clean power plan will disrupt their own investments in renewable energy.

Anyway, Pruitt is probably on his way out. Trump will presumably find someone even more hostile to the environment to run the EPA.

 

[Stella]

I would love to understand how 96% of their retail facilities are using renewable energy. So many of these are located inside malls and other buildings owned by others with little to no way to get access to wind, solar, etc.

Not arguing... just would love to see how they do that.

Its how the electricity markets work. Apple can choose a 'green' electricity provider, so a store's location is irrelevant ( as long as the store can choose its own electricity supplier ).

So, its no different than consumers choosing their own electricity suppliers. Electric companies will put x amount of energy into the electricity grid based upon demand. So, I could buy my electric from "Bulldog Power", who supplies 'green' electricity, but I'm not anywhere near solar or wind generators.

 

[skitidetdu]

The winds of lobbyists are blowing once again

 

[TonyC28]

Continue to lead by example, Apple. The world will respect your actions much more than your/Tim's words.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I would love to understand how 96% of their retail facilities are using renewable energy. So many of these are located inside malls and other buildings owned by others with little to no way to get access to wind, solar, etc.

Not arguing... just would love to see how they do that.

They are a bit vague on that point. Retail is not specified as being included in their "facilities."

 

[Millah]

You know, it kind of blows my mind that we as a nation were even able to form an agency like the EPA. We used to actually agree that preserving the environment we live in is a GOOD thing. Its pretty frightening to see how much society has regressed in the last 40 years. Now EVERYTHING is political and about picking a political side in some fight, where we view fellow Americans as our “true enemy.” Good god society is in a sad state.

 

[unobtainium]

Tim Cook for president! And then he could bring all of his Apple clowns with him to the cabinet. Couldn't be any worse than the past four or five administrations.

The last administration (Obama) rescued the country from the brink of another Great Depression and oversaw a huge economic recovery WHILE improving the social safety net and environmental protection. Or do you just not pay attention to reality?

 

[toph2toast]

How exactly is that nonsensical? Apple wants to

IMO, it's nonsensical for a couple reasons:

1) Nothing is stopping Apple, or anyone else, from using, developing or investing into renewable power going forward.
2) Sunk costs in development and investments in the energy sector happen, this isn't a special circumstance. Take a look at whats going on with the VC Summer nuclear plant that never got finished. Electric customers in South Carolina have already paid for, and may continue to pay for, a plant that never produced energy... ever.

My 2 cents is that we should be investing more into nuclear energy, but that's another topic/

 

[Sedulous]

I would love to understand how 96% of their retail facilities are using renewable energy. So many of these are located inside malls and other buildings owned by others with little to no way to get access to wind, solar, etc.

Not arguing... just would love to see how they do that.

Best guess is Apple includes only Apple owned property and not rented spaces.

 

[unobtainium]

You know, it kind of blows my mind that we as a nation were even able to form an agency like the EPA. We used to actually agree that preserving the environment we live in is a GOOD thing. Its pretty frightening to see how much society has regressed in the last 40 years. Now EVERYTHING is political and about picking a political side in some fight, where we view fellow Americans as our “true enemy.” Good god society is in a sad state.

Indeed, and the EPA was signed into existence by a Republican, Nixon. Preserving and sustaining our environment for future generations used to be a common sense bipartisan issue.

 

[Sedulous]

IMO, it's nonsensical for a couple reasons:

1) Nothing is stopping Apple, or anyone else, from using, developing or investing into renewable power going forward.
2) Sunk costs in development and investments in the energy sector happen, this isn't a special circumstance. Take a look at whats going on with the VC Summer nuclear plant that never got finished. Electric customers in South Carolina have already paid for, and may continue to pay for, a plant that never produced energy... ever.

My 2 cents is that we should be investing more into nuclear energy, but that's another topic/

Mostly agree except light water reactors have always been a bad idea... even the inventor of the light water reactor design says so. Molten salt is the way to go (and fusion if it ever becomes a viable option).

 

[hudson1]

Best guess is Apple includes only Apple owned property and not rented spaces.

Which means they have very little footprint. What is it... a couple data farms and a corporate complex? They clearly aren't including all of their stores and they don't manufacture anything themselves. What they are excluding probably represents 90% of the real total electricity they use.

 

[stix666]

Energy efficiency improves profits and prosperity and helps the environment.
Corporate welfare with tariffs, price-fixing and carbon trading is simply not the same. In Britain, the Climate Change Act has dramatically increased the price of energy for energy users that has impacted the poor and elderly disproportionately. At the same time, it has enriched landowners who can afford to build wind farms, energy companies and affluent households who can afford solar panels and enjoy government-subsidised profits/ cost reductions.
Despite all this, in 2017, the USA reduced CO2 emissions while they increased in Britain.

The whole scam is sick. It combines reverse Robin Hood (robbing the poor to enrich the rich), ineffective CO2 reduction and displaced pollution and environmental costs in China where the rare earth elements required for renewables are mined.

I tend to agree with those who suggest that Apple enjoys the high barriers to entry that these impose; and doesn't care about the environment given its willingness to source manufacturing in the worlds worst-polluting country (China).

 

[bollman]

I would love to understand how 96% of their retail facilities are using renewable energy. So many of these are located inside malls and other buildings owned by others with little to no way to get access to wind, solar, etc.

Not arguing... just would love to see how they do that.

Are you for real?
Do you really, for real, actually think that the power company you choose is the one producing the electricity you use?

 

[iMi]

Tim Cook for president! And then he could bring all of his Apple clowns with him to the cabinet. Couldn't be any worse than the past four or five administrations.

Why are you here?

If you have such a distain for Apple, why bother posting in an Apple oriented forum? Tim Cook saying the company opposes reversal of environmental policy makes him and "his clowns" automatically bad for the country? I fail to see any logic in your response.

 

[StevieD100]

If Apple is committed to renewable energy repealing this bill shouldn't alter their stance on the issue, no-ones saying you can't get 100% of your electricity from renewable sources. The only thing Apple will moan about is small companies that could never afford to put practices in place to meet the clean energy bill now don't have to, they can operate their businesses and provide competition whereas before only the rich would be allowed to play.

Well, where do I start???
Since I had a small PV system installed my grid electricity consumption has almost halved. Yes, all the Electricity I get from the grid is from renewable sources but I know of several small businesses that have basically stopped paying the Electricity companies (over the course of a year) since they've gone green.
That is the sort of message that Apple is putting out. Going renewable makes economic sense.
Mr Pruit is totally beholden to 'Good Clean Coal' yet more and more Coal Fired Power Stations in the USA are closing every year. Even the giant Navaho on is on its last legs.
Many states including Texas are generating significant amounts of renewable. Reversing this law won't stop the green revolution.

 

[hudson1]

I don't understand Apple's contention. The USA represents 4.4% of the world's population so what we do here in the States has very little impact from a global basis. More important, if renewable energy makes any economic sense (and it does in many cases) then investors will line up to make it happen and the government obviously isn't standing in the way. That's capitalism at work.

 

[ericinboston]

I follow Apple, the USA, and our USA economy a lot and I've always shied away from short soundbites...but this time I'm saying it:

Apple...you don't pay your taxes, then you don't get a voice.

Yes, I am aware that Apple is doing nothing illegal by storing its dozens of billions of dollars outside the USA...but it doesn't make it ethical. I believe Apple owes over $90billion. Say that out loud. Even a few billion would go quite far. Sure, we all know government is wasteful but that's a different topic. If Apple had paid $5-10billion a year for the past 10+ years, that money would have contributed to the public...roads, schools, etc. It's a bit too late now as the damage of not receiving billions in taxes has already been done. But the point is, pay your taxes...and not 10+ years late.

https://www.wired.com/story/why-a-dollar38-billion-tax-payment-is-a-good-deal-for-apple/

p.s. Yes, I know other companies avoid paying taxes (legally) but my point is that Apple wants to scream and cry about USA policies when Apple doesn't pay taxes!

 

[Mtmspa]

How about a new Mac mini and software that isn’t buggy as ****? Maybe focus on that Timmy. We don’t care that you are a gay, DACA loving, tree hugger.

 

[toph2toast]

Mostly agree except light water reactors have always been a bad idea... even the inventor of the light water reactor design says so. Molten salt is the way to go (and fusion if it ever becomes a viable option).

I'm not knowledgeable enough to be able to agree/disagree over particular kinds of reactors, but I can confidently say that the nuclear industry has a whole knows more now than they did 10, 20, 30 years ago. So taking that knowledge and combining it with today's technology would be pretty amazing. But this technology has all but been abandoned in the US, even though its sustainable, and doesn't wreck havoc on the grid.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Well, where do I start???
Since I had a small PV system installed my grid electricity consumption has almost halved. Yes, all the Electricity I get from the grid is from renewable sources but I know of several small businesses that have basically stopped paying the Electricity companies (over the course of a year) since they've gone green.
That is the sort of message that Apple is putting out. Going renewable makes economic sense.
Mr Pruit is totally beholden to 'Good Clean Coal' yet more and more Coal Fired Power Stations in the USA are closing every year. Even the giant Navaho on is on its last legs.
Many states including Texas are generating significant amounts of renewable. Reversing this law won't stop the green revolution.

You could start be reading my post.
I never said Apple should change their message they're putting out; in fact I said the repealing of the bill shouldn't alter their stance. If that's what they believe in they should pursue it regardless of what government mandates or doesn't mandate. Saying "well we're doing it so everyone should" is a petty childish attitude.

 

[lostngone]

Maybe I have been talking to insiders and lobbyists too much but I thought the new coal power plants could be made to have very low emissions? "IF" that is the case it seems crazy to not allow it.

 

[deanthedev]

Totally irrelevant what Apple thinks about this. This rule is applicable to power plants, not ivory tower companies like Apple. I very much doubt Apple really spends time understanding this rule or its impacts. And if they do, those resources should be spent thinking about Apple products or perhaps environmental rules that actually are relevant to them. This is very obviously an opportunistic statement by Timmy and company.

Total bunk and nonsensical language: "Repealing the Clean Power Plan will subject consumers like Apple and our large manufacturing partners to increased investment uncertainty," the California-based company said in a filing to the agency.Apple, which says it runs its U.S. operations fully on renewable energy such as wind and solar power, added that repeal of the plan would also threaten development and investments that have already been made in renewable power."

Only bunk I'm reading is your post.

 

[iMi]

You are 100% wrong. Changes to the EPA rules on power plants does add uncertainty to the cost of electricity. The cost of electricity does impact investments by all consumers and large companies.

Independent producers seem to be pretty effective at lowering the rate, especially if you lock into a contract.

We buy 100% renewal energy from a local supplier in Illinois. I have since about 2010 from different companies. At first, it was actually quite a bit more expensive. Today we pay about 20% less than the standard rate from ComEd... Private sector can play a pretty strong role in shaping the energy grid. We can help by voting with our wallet.

 

[HarryWild]

Apple has invest monies on renewable energy and do not want to see it go to waste. Plus, the are in the state of California so they have to be PC(political correct).