Apple Opposes Proposed Repeal of Clean Power Plan in United States

[orev]

I would love to understand how 96% of their retail facilities are using renewable energy. So many of these are located inside malls and other buildings owned by others with little to no way to get access to wind, solar, etc.

Not arguing... just would love to see how they do that.

They are a bit vague on that point. Retail is not specified as being included in their "facilities."

Best guess is Apple includes only Apple owned property and not rented spaces.

You seem to have some idea that every location that uses renewable power needs to have solar panels and wind turbines attached directly to it. That's not how it works, AT ALL. The electrical system is like a big bucket of water. Power generation companies dump into it, and customers pull out of it. Customers pay the rates for the type of power they use, and those payments get routed to the companies that generated the power. So if a company generates power using renewable, customers just buy power out of the bucket at the rate for renewable power, and those companies get paid for it.

And no way to individually have their own power routed to them independently of the rest of the building and the local power grid they are located in. It's all just a feel-good paperwork game in the electric billing. Same thing as getting one of those electricity contracts for your house that says you use 'X' type of power but you are still connected to the same power lines as everyone else on your street and which are powered by the same grid and the same power plants. It's not like the electric company can tell which electrons to go to which house or business over the same wires.

You are at the same time correct and ignorant of the topic. This is indeed how it works and that's exactly how it should work. You seem to imply that it's all smoke and mirrors and isn't really environmental at all. You are wrong. Read my explanation above, which is the only sensical way it can work.

 

[toph2toast]

Independent producers seem to be pretty effective at lowering the rate, especially if you lock into a contract.

We buy 100% renewal energy from a local supplier in Illinois. I have since about 2010 from different companies. At first, it was actually quite a bit more expensive. Today we pay about 20% less than the standard rate from ComEd... Private sector can play a pretty strong role in shaping the energy grid. We can help by voting with our wallet.

I may be wrong, but in recent years, tax subsidies has swung heavily to favor renewables vs. fossil fuel plants which may be why your rates are down so much. In an article from ~ 1 year ago, only 25% of tax incentives went towards fossil fuels, while the rest went to renewables and energy efficient technologies.

 

[69650]

Apple should be applauded for their efforts to use 100% clean energy and recyclable materials.

 

[cmwade77]

Ok, yes, I agree we should be using more clean energy, really there is no excuse for us not already being on around 90% clean energy and within 5 years having that be 100%. We just don't have the guts to accept that nuclear power is indeed clean and safe these days, assuming modern safety systems are implemented. But even without nuclear, we should be at around 80% now and 90% in 5 years. Everyone dragging their feet on doing this is absolutely unacceptable.

All of that being said, I don't think the government needs to mandate any of this, I think they need to make Solar and Wind Mills easier to buy and install for both homes and businesses. This would include eliminating the extra taxes and bans on solar panels made outside the country. Ultimately if every home and business had enough solar panels with battery backups to power their own homes/facilities, there would be very little to no need for power companies anymore and we would be at or near 100% clean energy.

 

[adamjackson]

I would love to understand how 96% of their retail facilities are using renewable energy. So many of these are located inside malls and other buildings owned by others with little to no way to get access to wind, solar, etc.

Not arguing... just would love to see how they do that.

That's a great question and something really important when you read news about a company being green. It's called RECs or Renewable Energy Credits. There's a REC market in every state and if a store is in New Hampshire, the company will have to buy RECs in that state to offset the power they buy so in New Hampshire (where I live), Apple can choose who they buy power from so they may decide to buy from Liberty Utilities. Anyone in NH can switch power companies whenever they like and their choice may be 100% renewable...in states where Apple can't choose their power company, they look at how many kilowatt hours they used this year and they go to the REC market and buy credits to offset.

SO, on paper, Apple is still using energy generated by coal plants in a lot of states but they buy credits in order to tell people they're green.

---

As a homeowner w/ solar panels that participates in the REC market, every KWH I generate = 1 REC and a company in Jersey brokers my RECs and gives ma a quarterly check for how well they do. In NH, there's little demand for these. I believe MA RECs are worth $40 a pop right now. They're worth $4 in NH because you need companies buying the RECs for the price to increase (like a stock market). so I make like $12 a year selling my RECs to companies like Apple, UPS, etc.

===

tl;dr, Apple's facilities just buy power. However much power they buy from fossil fuel power companies, they buy renewable energy credits to offset that in each state they have a facility. Every 'green' company does this. Apple also invests in their own renewable energy which by law has to be sold to a utility company and re-sold back to Apple.

 

[rtomyj]

We should always think intellectually with matters like this.

If global warming is false and we don’t do anything: we lose a planet. Extinction or whatever.
Global warming is false and we do something: some companies lose money. New tech will emerge, new markets created.

Seriously it’s not a tough choice.

 

[iMi]

I may be wrong, but in recent years, tax subsidies has swung heavily to favor renewables vs. fossil fuel plants which may be why your rates are down so much. In an article from ~ 1 year ago, only 25% of tax incentives went towards fossil fuels, while the rest went to renewables and energy efficient technologies.

That could very well be the case. We still give the fossil fuel industry tens of billions of dollars in subsidies annually while they rake in record profits. It's good to see that we are finally investing in technologies that will hopefully lead to climate crisis solutions.

 

[69Mustang]

I would love to understand how 96% of their retail facilities are using renewable energy. So many of these are located inside malls and other buildings owned by others with little to no way to get access to wind, solar, etc.

Not arguing... just would love to see how they do that.

Take note of what you're quoting.

...100 percent of the electricity the company uses to power its data centers, and 96 percent used by its facilities worldwide,

Afaik, Apple doesn't own any retail facilities. They rent. So retail locations don't count against Apple's "its".

 

[pankajdoharey]

Man this is the worst President US has ever seen.

 

[shk718]

renewable energy may, currently, be more expensive than non-renewable but the idea is to start mass producing it to lower costs for the rest of us. Apple was/is leading the way. By removing these requirements tRump is making it harder to lower costs. Polluting the environment is not forward thinking. America doesn't lead the way into the future by living in the past. We don't create new industries by relying on old technology. These rules are in place for a reason - our environment is polluted and people's lives/health are affected by it. Our economy also benefits because we create the new technologies that power the next wave of economic growth. If we don't do it some other country will - do we really want that?

 

[mytdave]

Complete BS. Repeal of the "Clean Power Plan" does nothing to stop Apple from using and investing in the development of "renewable energy" products. The best thing about repeal is that you won't have the govt. forcing people to use and develop something they might not be interested in. Ah Freedom, something so many people don't even recognize anymore.

Apple, this will have no adverse impact on you at all, unless you've been involved in the money laundering and industrial "fixing" behind closed doors with the Obummer Administration. You make fantastic products, but many of your leftist ideas are utter disasters. Drop the stupid leftist politics, and start paying attention to the Mac.

p.s. news flash - Apple doesn't use anywhere near 100% renewable energy, they get most power from local utilities around the US and the world. A good portion of those are coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear, etc. Counting "offsets" is only an exercise on paper, it doesn't change the actual, physical source of the energy.

Now, the new Apple spaceship campus in covered in solar panels. Good for them, I'm 100% in favor of that, if that's something they want to do. Just don't tell me what I have to do, and don't try and get my government to force me to do it either.
[doublepost=1523034992][/doublepost]

Man this is the *best* President US has ever seen.

There, fixed that for you.

 

[magicschoolbus]

Apple is a 2 faced company. In the US they campaign on all of this social good - yet in China, they have people working tirelessly in a factory with suicide nets in one of the worst polluting countries in the world. I am so sick of this SJW crap from Apple wherever it is good for them business wise. They literally have no core values. If you want environmental regulation how about you go to China and make a statement about it over there too?

 

[citysnaps]

Totally irrelevant what Apple thinks about this. This rule is applicable to power plants, not ivory tower companies like Apple. I very much doubt Apple really spends time understanding this rule or its impacts. And if they do, those resources should be spent thinking about Apple products or perhaps environmental rules that actually are relevant to them. This is very obviously an opportunistic statement by Timmy and company.

Total bunk and nonsensical language: "Repealing the Clean Power Plan will subject consumers like Apple and our large manufacturing partners to increased investment uncertainty," the California-based company said in a filing to the agency.Apple, which says it runs its U.S. operations fully on renewable energy such as wind and solar power, added that repeal of the plan would also threaten development and investments that have already been made in renewable power."

It seems you don't understand that with Apple's 120K+ employees, that the company is organized into different groups. And the group that concerns itself with product development is different than the groups that deal with Apple's infrastructure and policy.

I'm very happy Apple is pushing back on this. Tip of my cap to Mr. Cook!

 

[pankajdoharey]

Complete BS. Repeal of the "Clean Power Plan" does nothing to stop Apple from using and investing in the development of "renewable energy" products. The best thing about repeal is that you won't have the govt. forcing people to use and develop something they might not be interested in. Ah Freedom, something so many people don't even recognize anymore.

Apple, this will have no adverse impact on you at all, unless you've been involved in the money laundering and industrial "fixing" behind closed doors with the Obummer Administration. You make fantastic products, but many of your leftist ideas are utter disasters. Drop the stupid leftist politics, and start paying attention to the Mac.

p.s. news flash - Apple doesn't use anywhere near 100% renewable energy, they get most power from local utilities around the US and the world. A good portion of those are coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear, etc. Counting "offsets" is only an exercise on paper, it doesn't change the actual, physical source of the energy.

Now, the new Apple spaceship campus in covered in solar panels. Good for them, I'm 100% in favor of that, if that's something they want to do. Just don't tell me what I have to do, and don't try and get my government to force me to do it either.
[doublepost=1523034992][/doublepost]

There, fixed that for you.

It takes away their incentive to invest in Clean energy. I think government should give tax breaks to companies that produce clean power.

 

[shk718]

Apple is a 2 faced company. In the US they campaign on all of this social good - yet in China, they have people working tirelessly in a factory with suicide nets in one of the worst polluting countries in the world. I am so sick of this SJW crap from Apple wherever it is good for them business wise. They literally have no core values. If you want environmental regulation how about you go to China and make a statement about it over there too?

Apple has implemented many requirements of the factories it uses in China - you can find reporting of it on this site - do some homework. Apple can't save the world - but it at least, can make an impact in its home country.

 

[PaulRustad007]

Sad state of affairs when the US government gives up trying to protect the environment such that a corporation feels the need to step in.

How about where Apple makes all of its devices to be thrown away after use, and no easy way to repair them by the layman, so people toss them out like garbage, and all the toxic chemicals leach into the water supply and pollute landfills. If Apple is so concerned about energy, they should look into the mirror on their products and see how they impact the environment.....

 

[jeyf]

dont feed the trolls

 

[ksnell]

Sad state of affairs when the US government gives up trying to protect the environment such that a corporation feels the need to step in.

Actually, wouldn't that make a case for free market capitalism and small government?

 

[iReality85]

You are 100% wrong. Changes to the EPA rules on power plants does add uncertainty to the cost of electricity. The cost of electricity does impact investments by all consumers and large companies.

You know what adds to the uncertainty of my electric bill?

When National Grid realizes its union pensions cost too much and so everyone's bills go up by 13% this year.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

On the surface one could think Apple has no say.

Dig down, and there is sound economic reason behind the statement.
If pollution and environmental damage effects people livelihoods, how can they afford to purchase products?

The economy is influenced by everything.

Example:
90+% of scientist believe the earth is getting warmer and that will drastically effect climate conditions. People will have to spend more to counter the climate changes, reducing disposable income. An iPhone is not as important as a roof.

But Apple specially mentions it’s specific investments, not some presumed effect on the broad economy. It’s objection is based on its already spent dollars on clean factories put it at an economic disadvantage.

But to your point it works both ways. If regulations make producing power more expensive then that also becomes a big hit on the economy b/c consumers have less disposable income on less essential items. It’s not a zero-sum game.

 

[wigby]

Totally irrelevant what Apple thinks about this. This rule is applicable to power plants, not ivory tower companies like Apple. I very much doubt Apple really spends time understanding this rule or its impacts. And if they do, those resources should be spent thinking about Apple products or perhaps environmental rules that actually are relevant to them. This is very obviously an opportunistic statement by Timmy and company.

Total bunk and nonsensical language: "Repealing the Clean Power Plan will subject consumers like Apple and our large manufacturing partners to increased investment uncertainty," the California-based company said in a filing to the agency.Apple, which says it runs its U.S. operations fully on renewable energy such as wind and solar power, added that repeal of the plan would also threaten development and investments that have already been made in renewable power."

So you're criticizing a corporation for making a statement in their own best interests? OK.

 

[ActionableMango]

Apple wants to

Well don't leave us hanging!!!

What, are we doing cliffhanger endings in forum posts now?

 

[lowendlinux]

You know what adds to the uncertainty of my electric bill?

When National Grid realizes its union pensions cost too much and so everyone's bills go up by 13% this year.

I'm 100% good with that.

 

[Macintoshrumors]

Is there any Obama-era policy that Trump hasn’t reflexively reversed?

All of Obama’s polices were dog crap. Apple is mad that they spend all this money for nothing. This will open the door for companies in all industries to innovate and produce in California. It’s a good thing.

 

[chfilm]

I would love to understand how 96% of their retail facilities are using renewable energy. So many of these are located inside malls and other buildings owned by others with little to no way to get access to wind, solar, etc.

Not arguing... just would love to see how they do that.

It probably works the same way like when you buy renewable energy for your home: You dont neccessarily actually receive power that's being generated renewably, but for this money that you pay, somewhere runs a renewable energy source that powers SOMEONE at the given time. So apple probably generates enough renewable energy for their entire consumption and just inserts that power into the grid, no matter if each and every single store is being supplied by that actual energy, but they basically make up for those occasions that can't be specifically supplied with renewables.

At least that'd be my guess.
Even if you put solar cells on your own rooftop, you don't necessarily run your own home with that renewable power, because you need to insert that power into the grid, and vice versa receive power from the grid. The only other way would be by cutting yourself off the grid and using only batteries.
At least that's how it works in Germany.
[doublepost=1523036980][/doublepost]

All of Obama’s polices were dog crap. Apple is mad that they spend all this money for nothing. This will open the door for companies in all industries to innovate and produce in California. It’s a good thing.

I like your smart statement that's not not broad brushed or generalizing at all. Very smarts, lots of brains! Big hands! Maga!