Apple Orders Entire Supply of TSMC's 3nm Chips for iPhone 15 Pro and M3 Macs

[tridley68]

Cool so no I phone 15 shipping delays right🤣😂😂

 

[The Cappy]

I wonder how much of those costs will be absorbed by Apple and how much by its loyal customers.

Of course, since every purchase you make is 100% voluntary, I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

 

[Razorpit]

I wonder how much of those costs will be absorbed by Apple and how much by its loyal customers.

You think Apple is not for profit? The customer pays all costs, all the time, in one way or another. This includes all the “tax the rich” taxes, “tax big corporations” taxes, close the {insert name here} loop hole, “tax fossil fuels”, “government mandates” and anything else that comes along between “now” and “then”.

Welp, there goes a 3nm for the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 and most likely higher costs passed on to consumers due to Tim Cooks's Apple.

What?

 

[coffeemilktea]

I really look forward to all the performance enhancements these new chips will bring; I just know my next phone will be extra fast at scrolling through the MacRumors comment section.

 

[ian87w]

You're mistaken. The A16 fiasco was purely down to TSMC being unable to deliver N3 on time, forcing Apple to deliver a mostly warmed-over A15 with bumped-up clocks. All of the advances we would have gotten in A16 had that not been the case will appear this year in the A17, along with further improvements. It's going to be a monster.

Expect the same for the M3, for the same exact reasons.

They better be. SD8gen2 has leap over the A16 in GPU, something that Apple used to dominate. CPU wise, SD8gen2 is practically just 1 generation behind. Apple’s 5-year lead is now gone. And if everything Apple has is dependent on TSMC, well, that kinda means their core design is not that good anymore…

 

[gpat]

They better be. SD8gen2 has leap over the A16 in GPU, something that Apple used to dominate. CPU wise, SD8gen2 is practically just 1 generation behind. Apple’s 5-year lead is now gone. And if everything Apple has is dependent on TSMC, well, that kinda means their core design is not that good anymore…

Apple never had a 5 year lead on SoC. It was more like a 6-18 month lead (still huge). And it looks it will be the same story with 3nm because of their sheer economical power saturating all of TSMC's capacity.

 

[surfzen21]

In my opinion the roadmap will be something like
09/2023 - A17
03/2024 - M3
09/2024 - M3 Pro/Max
Everything on N3E.

Bonus: possible sneak peek at new Mac Pro for release within end of 2023 (possible first 3nm Mac).

I'm taking this prediction out of my ass but hey it's not like Digitimes is doing much more than that.

If you meant to attach a link I think you forgot it

Whoops about the link. Does MacRumors not allow links to be posted? Its from wikichips

Anyway, they basically said the N3 was abandoned due to design issues and low yield.

The original N3 (Abandoned) had 10-15% speed improvement over the N5 and 25-30% power reduction at the speed of the N5.

The N3E will pump that up to 15-20% speed improvement and 30-35% power reduction at same speed of N5.

 

[Menel]

So we are @3nm..

only 2 and 1 left. When we get to 0nm iNet becomes self aware, and in a panic, they try to pull the USB C to lightning dongle.

We are not at 3nm, we are a N3.
Nothing in N3 can be physically measured at 3nm.

 

[lkrupp]

Wouldn’t this be considered anti-competitive for Apple to slurp up the entire supply of 3nm chips? Let the investigations begin! 🤪

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

Great news! I’m glad progress is being made. Woo hoo!

 

[surfzen21]

We are not at 3nm, we are a N3.
Nothing in N3 can be physically measured at 3nm.

Are you sure?

This was taken directly from TSMC's website:

"TSMC’s 3nm technology (N3) will be another full node stride from our 5nm technology (N5), and offer the most advanced foundry technology in both PPA and transistor technology when it is introduced. N3 technology will offer up to 70% logic density gain, up to 15% speed improvement at the same power and up to 30% power reduction at the same speed as compared with N5 technology."

 

[cdsapplefan]

Apple got all the supply of the expensive N3 technology because all the other companies are going with the much cheaper cost effective N3E technology.

 

[bradman83]

This news *still* doesn't tell us what's coming next, but it does confirm what I wrote here a few weeks ago. We know Apple is taking all of TSMC's supply of N3, and it's likely (but NOT certain) that it won't go into the next iphone, as that's more likely to be N3E, going into commercial production later this year.

Apple typically has TSMC start manufacturing chips for the new iPhone around this time during the year so that there is a sufficient supply to ship the finished chips to Foxconn and begin manufacturing the phones themselves by early summer to have them available en masse by September, so it will likely be using the N3 node. This is doubly true if they want to pivot N3 production capacity to the M3 chips for the MBA, iMac, and other consumer level macs later this year. N3E won’t have the production volumes available that Apple needs if it launches mid year. The A18 and M4 series will likely use N3E.

 

[ian87w]

Apple never had a 5 year lead on SoC. It was more like a 6-18 month lead (still huge). And it looks it will be the same story with 3nm because of their sheer economical power saturating all of TSMC's capacity.

If you look at SD888 and SD8gen1, Apple does have at least 4 to 5 generation lead over Qualcomm in terms of efficiency. Qualcomm recent gains are thanks to TSMC. When the fab is the same, then the core design comes into play, and with SD8gen2, Apple is already behind in GPU. Apple does really need to step up their mobile core design.

I wonder if Apple will move to 4 performance cores instead of 2 on the A chips.

 

[citysnaps]

I wonder how much of those costs will be absorbed by Apple and how much by its loyal customers.

Apple will add a roughly and reasonable 40% GPM (gross profit margin) to their COGS (cost of good sold) for all of their products.

That 40% will be built into the retail price and thus paid by its customers, loyal or not, and whiney or not.

 

[gpat]

If you look at SD888 and SD8gen1, Apple does have at least 4 to 5 generation lead over Qualcomm in terms of efficiency. Qualcomm recent gains are thanks to TSMC. When the fab is the same, then the core design comes into play, and with SD8gen2, Apple is already behind in GPU. Apple does really need to step up their mobile core design.

I wonder if Apple will move to 4 performance cores instead of 2 on the A chips.

It's the other way around, Qualcomm had an handicap because the 888 and 8g1 were being produced by Samsung instead of TSMC.
We haven't even reached +5 gens compared to SD888 so I'm not sure how you would calculate that.
If you look at the benchmarks, 888 (2020) is ahead compared to A13 (2019) in everything except single core, and 8gen1 (2021) is roughly equal to A14 (2020) winning some and losing some.
Apple having a 5 year lead would mean comparing the 8gen2 (late 2022) with A11 (late 2017), that's ridiculous.

 

[MacWiz_007]

I'm holding out for a -1nm chip!

 

[0924487]

Outside of the US that psychological barrier was smashed long ago, despite UK Sterling being at 1.2 to the Dollar we still pay anything between 1.2-5K for a Pro Max

In US and Canada, tax is added to the price at check out. In most international regions, VAT is included in the price.

 

[0924487]

It's the other way around, Qualcomm had an handicap because the 888 and 8g1 were being produced by Samsung instead of TSMC.
We haven't even reached +5 gens compared to SD888 so I'm not sure how you would calculate that.
If you look at the benchmarks, 888 (2020) is ahead compared to A13 (2019) in everything except single core, and 8gen1 (2021) is roughly equal to A14 (2020) winning some and losing some.
Apple having a 5 year lead would mean comparing the 8gen2 (late 2022) with A11 (late 2017), that's ridiculous.

You didn’t factor in performance per watt.

 

[FloatingBones]

I wonder how much of those costs will be absorbed by Apple and how much by its loyal customers.

"I wonder" has become a phrase used by commenters who are not actually wondering anything at all. Your "wondering" was addressed quite competently:

Apple itself cannot absorb any cost. It is a for-profit corporation. The whole point is to get more money for their product than it cost them producing it.

Does @VaruLV think Apple should have different pricing for its disloyal customers?

 

[gpat]

You didn’t factor in performance per watt.

Just show me the data if you have it

 

[JohnSFO]

Whenever MacRumors posts about 3nm chips I get a hankering for a Stroopwafel.

 

[LukasValine]

There will be a restart of the game. 700 picos sounds bigger but is not.

TSMCs 3nm transistors are actually measured to be 30 to 40nm. The 3nm figure is just marketing and is completely detached from reality.

 

[4odomi]

Very exciting to see the chipsets getting smaller and more efficient. Costs for new technology always go up before they stabilize. Regarding costs:

1. Apple has higher-than-average profit margin which could cover these costs. I don't think the pricing structure will change much due to the rising chip costs.
2. Everything costs more today due to labor shortages and inflation, yet, at least in the US, the pricing has been relatively stable. MacMini pricing was actually lowered recently.
3. Pricing is generally set by the laws of supply and demand. Apple knows that they can charge whatever they want and certain segments will still pay. However, to win the war on marketshare, Apple must price their products competitively.

The 3NM chipsets are very likely to have significant speed and efficiency benefits and I just hope that Apple uses these gains for the Mac. I appreciate the iPhone and, though I am not a subscriber to any, the profits in Apple services. However, the core of Apple has always been the Mac. The Mac is where everything comes together seamlessly and the Mac could really use more consistent attention; like annual iMac and MBA upgrade and biennial MacPro and MBP upgrades.

Macbook is a tiny percentage of Apples profits, 1) iPhone 2) Services are the biggest profit makers and what keeps Apple at the top

 

[VaruLV]

"I wonder" has become a phrase used by commenters who are not actually wondering anything at all. Your "wondering" was addressed quite competently:


Does @VaruLV think Apple should have different pricing for its disloyal customers?

Exactly, fanboys pay premium, the rest pay normal prices.