Apple Outlines New Ban on Bonded Labor at Supplier Factories in 2015 Progress Report

[Saucesome2000]

Oh boy, where to start.

1) You do realize that none of these people are in fact actual APPLE EMPLOYEES?

2) Apple does not claim to be a "humanitarian company". And what does that term even mean? In fact, I know of no company that does. This is simply a straw man argument.

3) Nothing stopping you from flying over to China and handing out $20 bills to employees leaving the factory. Anything is easy for the guy who doesn't have to do it.

4) People only get bashed for making stupid claims while trying to act superior.

Thank you for number 3. It's like I say when people complain about Wal-Mart's wages, yet still shop there. If you think they should get paid more, give them a tip when they ring you out. Automatic, non-taxed wage hike. So many seem to be so vocal about how others should spend their money, but fail to make an attempt to improve matters with their own resources.

Apple - The only company in the world who gets bashed when they do something good.

 

[Daalseth]

Gotta be the. most ridiculous. statement. here.
Everything is a choice.

It is down to what a company can afford or thinks they can afford to do. There are millions of companies that do not, (whether by choice or by force), ship out to third world countries for labour. Their profit margin is lower granted but it goes to show you can build in house and still survive if you choose.

What Apple has done is to look at the amount of money they stand to lose and decided it’s not in their business interests to build at home and that how workers are treated is not quite important enough, that’s fine but plesse don’t spin it as ‘Apple are great and caring’. They could choose to build in the US, (I’m not even American so don’t care that much), and make less profit, if they wanted to.

Ah so you're blaming Apple for the results of economic decisions made by governments and populations in the US and the reswt of the West over the last 50 years.
Gotcha.

 

[bawbac]

Apple spends many billions on ridiculous solar farms but can't pay the workers a living wage in other countries.

One thing Apple is not is a humanitarian company which is why they spend a lot of time trying to tell everything they are.

You would think that Apple could use that money they spend on solar farms to help pay better wages and provide EXCEPTIONAL working conditions. After all, it is these folks that are the bread and butter of Apple.

I am sure I will get bashed, but unfortunately as much as I love Apple products, this is the sad truth.

The truth hurts but no Apple zealot wants to hear it.

 

[JHankwitz]

You would think that Apple could use that money they spend on solar farms to help pay better wages and provide EXCEPTIONAL working conditions. After all, it is these folks that are the bread and butter of Apple.

Apple does in fact provide excellent wages and benefits, and provides exceptional working conditions for their employees. Haven't you seen the Apple Campus or their retail stores? Foxconn workers are not Apple employees.

 

[Daalseth]

The truth hurts but no Apple zealot wants to hear it.

Image

The Truth hurts but no pathological Apple hater wants to hear it.

 

[NT1440]

I think Apple would brag loudly about those things. Other companies just quietly do them.
.

I don't know, I just learned from listening to the conference call with cook that Apple has invested over $100 million combating AIDS in Africa...but I've never heard them shout from the rooftops about it.

 

[apolloa]

It's not as if American journalists (or actors) haven't been found blatantly lying and making up stores about people working for Apple in the past. Like one guy who _swore_ that he saw hundreds of underage factory workers at Foxconn, including 12 year olds, and interviewed many of them - and had to admit it was all made up.

So are you claiming that the BBC fabricated and made up the entire Panorama report then? Please answer.

 

[kdarling]

I don't know, I just learned from listening to the conference call with cook that Apple has invested over $100 million combating AIDS in Africa...but I've never heard them shout from the rooftops about it.

Seriously, you've never heard of Product Red?

Apple holds a huge event every year about it, that makes the news.

For example, last year they auctioned off that red wastebasket Mac Pro. solid gold EarPods, and a custom Leica.

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/2...designer-marc-newson-sold-off-at-red-auction/

 

[gnasher729]

So are you claiming that the BBC fabricated and made up the entire Panorama report then? Please answer.

Strawman. Where did I claim that? I said there have been reporters and one actor with a one-man show about the evils of Apple who have completely made up stories.

As far as Panorama is concerned: "There were workers so tired that they slept at work". I have been told that it is an absolutely normal thing in China to use your lunch break for some sleep time, and seeing someone sleeping at their work place is absolutely normal and no sign of too much work.

The situation in Indonesia is difficult. If Apple buys tin elsewhere then either someone else buys in Indonesia, or the people there starve. But one thing is sure, if Apple isn't buying there, then Apple has no chance of influencing what is going on. Historically, in the areas of Britain were tin was mined, the wages of farm workers were significantly higher than elsewhere, because even the worst job puts pressure on the labour market and makes wages go up.

And if you heard that tin mining in Indonesia is illegal, it's not because someone rich illegal exploits the poor workers, but because the poor workers collect and sell tin that isn't theirs (and very understandably so, because the alternative is no food).

On the other hand, since you asked me to answer, I'm absolutely willing to testify that you take whatever opportunity and whatever excuse to express your hate against Apple. We all know and have known for a long time that whatever they do will be bad in your eyes. And the BBC can certainly give its reporting a spin in any direction they want without having to fabricate and make up _everything_. Just some interpretation of events in the way that they want to see it, that's enough.

 

[linuxcooldude]

As far as Panorama is concerned: "There were workers so tired that they slept at work". I have been told that it is an absolutely normal thing in China to use your lunch break for some sleep time, and seeing someone sleeping at their work place is absolutely normal and no sign of too much work.

Pfft...I remember working at a furniture factory. During the half hour lunch I would often sleep on the conveyor belt. Many things in that film could be taken out of context and often do it on purpose for the obvious reasons.

Just like in the military underway we worked 6 day work weeks. Sundays we had off, but we still had to show up to stand watches twice a day. During one inspection we were working 18 hour work days for two weeks among other things. But I'm so exploited! Where is my documentary on this?

 

[NT1440]

Seriously, you've never heard of Product Red?

Apple holds a huge event every year about it, that makes the news.

For example, last year they auctioned off that red wastebasket Mac Pro. solid gold EarPods, and a custom Leica.

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/2...designer-marc-newson-sold-off-at-red-auction/

No, he was talking about a different program, the name started with a C...it was only after that he started talking about RED.

I could be mistaken because I was falling asleep, I'd have to listen again.

 

[numlock]

Sorry I would never trust BBC or New York Times to do honest reporting here. if you want to call me a troll for says that, fine I couldn't care less.

not trusting and claiming they have an agenda is not the same thing. you have nothing to back that claim up with.

as far as the photos.app you have gotten enough replies/quotes regarding you aperture question that you know it not to be true yet you persist.

 

[chrisstoneuk]

good steps. more than a lot of other companies would even dream of. lots of people say 'well apple's sitting on 100 bail, man.. surely they could just [x,y,z]..."

well, yeah, unless you expect them to step in and pay another (foreign) company's wages (unlike any other company on Earth), conducting 633 audits and investing in this division of 'oversight' isn't exactly a no-expense endeavor.

edit: looks like i spoke too soon. already a call on this board for apple to pay chinese factory workers... look, it's either you live an American lifestyle with American corporations who sell you things, or you move to where people in need will accept your personal humanitarian aid. using apple as a whipping boy for what all gigantic american companies do is just what i call 'reality ignorance.' especially on a story highlighting how apple is going above and beyond the status quo.

I am not going to say you are wrong but just point out a few points.

Apple products are made in factories outside the USA. Where the economies, cost of living and living standards etc are different. For example if we compare China to the USA.

I will use 3 sets of figures to show this GDP per Capita, average monthly disposable income after tax and the cost of bread:

GDP Per Capita US$ (2013)
China - $9,100
USA - $48,900
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jun/07/china-us-how-superpowers-compare-datablog

Average Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax)
China - $698.12
USA - $2972.82
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...na&country2=United+States&displayCurrency=USD

Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g)
China - $1.52
USA - $2.45
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ult.jsp?country1=China&country2=United+States

There are other figures that show things can cost more in China than the US but on average China has a lower cost of living.

As many people have pointed out Apple do not employ the workers directly. But they ensure the workers are treater fairy, are not exploited and publish the results of annual audits.

Do other companies do this for their supply chain?? No.

Your argument is valid - its not fair they can't earn the same as a factory worker in America. But the argument needs to consider the wider socio-economic issues.

 

[Stephen123]

"Pay your employees more or you lose our business"

That is exactly what Apple is doing and you’re complaining about the article about the audits Apple does to police that system.

 

[msm859]

Apple spends many billions on ridiculous solar farms but can't pay the workers a living wage in other countries.

One thing Apple is not is a humanitarian company which is why they spend a lot of time trying to tell everything they are.

You would think that Apple could use that money they spend on solar farms to help pay better wages and provide EXCEPTIONAL working conditions. After all, it is these folks that are the bread and butter of Apple.

I am sure I will get bashed, but unfortunately as much as I love Apple products, this is the sad truth.

Okay I will bash you. Not for your complaints of better wages and working conditions - but for the attack on solar farms. Apple can afford to and should do BOTH. ALL of their workers should be making a livable wage in every country including the US. They should be paying a minimum of 150% of the minimum wage of the location. They can afford this. But they should also be ecologically responsible. As to your focused attack on solar panels I suspect you have not checked prices lately, it is pretty much a no brainer that it is a good business investment - even if you are not concerned about your carbon footprint.

 

[apolloa]

On the other hand, since you asked me to answer, I'm absolutely willing to testify that you take whatever opportunity and whatever excuse to express your hate against Apple. We all know and have known for a long time that whatever they do will be bad in your eyes. And the BBC can certainly give its reporting a spin in any direction they want without having to fabricate and make up _everything_. Just some interpretation of events in the way that they want to see it, that's enough.

You don't read enough of my comments mate to make an assumption of me. For instance I can claim your a pure Apple apologist and in your eyes they never ever do anything wrong. Am I right?

Please do not make false accusations based on posts in the news section.

Or perhaps I should post my Apple kit in my signature as some sort of pass to post on Mac Rumours?

And you called me a strawman..

Also who told you it is normal for workers to do so many hours of labour they fall asleep on the production line?

 

[NT1440]

Seriously, you've never heard of Product Red?

Apple holds a huge event every year about it, that makes the news.

For example, last year they auctioned off that red wastebasket Mac Pro. solid gold EarPods, and a custom Leica.

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/2...designer-marc-newson-sold-off-at-red-auction/

Looks like it was a $100 million commitment to Global Fund, though I don't know if RED has any relation to that.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Isn't the Mac Pro made in Austin now?



Motorola said it only cost them an extra $4 a unit to assemble the Moto X in their US factory. And a lot of those were custom builds.



Underage workers are there on their own. And not just in China.

One of the problems Samsung had with their own local suppliers was that many teenage Korean girls pay to get fake ids in order to work at factories over the summer months. To the girls, it's highly desirable and gives them a leg up for jobs when they graduate.



It'd probably be similar to the way Apple brags about Red products, while other companies like Samsung are doing so much more: supplying solar powered schools in Africa, giving to local United Ways all over the US, working with other companies to provide training and materials for the underprivileged, etc.

Heck, I just read that Samsung has a factory in Korea that was totally built around, and manned by, wheelchair bound employees. That's pretty cool.

I think Apple would brag loudly about those things. Other companies just quietly do them.



Other companies already do.

For instance, instead of just trying ban underage employees at their suppliers, and using occasional audits that are hardly a surprise, Samsung paid to install facial recognition devices at the entrances to those non-Samsung factories, to try to stop kids from sneaking in.

Another big example is the Conflict Minerals reports. First off, they're mandated in the US, not voluntary. And companies belong to a group:

The Conflict Free Sourcing Initiative (CFSI) is sponsored by a group of 150+ major companies (including Apple, Samsung, Motorola, HTC, LG, even AT&T, Sprint and Verizon).

Apple writes their press releases to make it sound like they did all the checking themselves, but CFSI is the "third party" that audits all the smelters, comes up with the lists, etc... and they do so for all their members.

True that at the Motorola factory, it was just a few $ more to make the phone, sadly not everyone cares to do some basic research and jump to conclusions to disrupt those that are defending their country.

 

[GeneralChang]

Yes. Let's reward the worker who lied about his age.

Yeah, as I sit here typing on my 2500 dollar computer with a redundant computer on the desk next to it in my nicely heated office and a communications device with almost instant access the the majority of human knowledge in my pocket, I'm going to go ahead and withhold judgement against the worker who lied about their age because they probably worry daily about where their food is coming from.

I feel much less hypocritical that way. But whatever works for you.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Ah, I remember that well. Mike Daisy was his name. A lot of his story was made up, a fabrication. Another journalist checked his sources that proved to be false. In fact he did go to China to Foxconn factories. In one instance he made up the story where an old man whos mangled hand ( Supposedly from an industrial accident inside Foxconn ) who never touched a working iPad.

Mike Daisy overall was right, just do some research, this does not excuse destroying the greatest industrial base ever created, made from the ground up, not transferred and cheated to get like communist china.

 

[s2mikey]

Oh, give me a break. I'm self-employed in Canada, and I have ZERO rest days, and a below-poverty income. That's because 80% of my income goes right back into keeping my business running. Do you see me complaining about poor working conditions, endless hours? Nobody is forcing me to do this. It's my choice, with the DREAM that one day my sacrifice will pay off. It's the same for many of these people...

I've been befriending many Asian people, mostly Filipinos, over the past four years. For them, working 12-hour days, 6 days a week is status quo. They APPRECIATE their day of. They make the most of it. Most of them are doing that work by choice. They leave behind their families and loved ones to go do that. Sure, from our perspective, it seems like slave labour, and in some rare cases it might be, but the vast majority of it is just boring, monotonous work that pays a wage that they use to support their families back home.

You can try to instil our Western standards (2 rest days PER 7?) on these hard-working factory workers, but you need to realize that they have a very different lifestyle from us, and very different priorities. It's not slave-labour. It's committed work. They choose to make that sacrifice for their families. How many Westerners would venture off only to send most of their earnings back to their families in America? I'll tell you –*very few! That's a big difference between us and them, and Apple is defining stringent guidelines to ensure that they are not exploited by these companies.

Yeah, right. Spoken like a big shareholder or whatever. They are slaves because they are being exploited for cheap wages and have NO other options. Their lifestyle is the way it is because of dictator like Govts and zero options. Don't make it like they are all happy. That's why they had to install suicide nets outside some of these factories. Are you kidding me?

Two days off per week is extreme now? Yeah, I mean, why should someone want time off to enjoy their life when they could just piss it away working all the time?

Face it, America has it good because a lot of people cared enough and DIED to make us free and establish our great way of living and freedoms. Sorry that upsets everyone but this notion that these indentured servants are somehow "living their dream" is an absolute joke. They have NOTHING. NO options, no hope. Hence they are being exploited. Period.

 

[gnasher729]

You don't read enough of my comments mate to make an assumption of me. For instance I can claim your a pure Apple apologist and in your eyes they never ever do anything wrong. Am I right?

Please do not make false accusations based on posts in the news section.

Or perhaps I should post my Apple kit in my signature as some sort of pass to post on Mac Rumours?

And you called me a strawman..

Also who told you it is normal for workers to do so many hours of labour they fall asleep on the production line?

God, you don't get it.

I don't make assumptions about you. Every single post of yours, every single one, is attacking Apple for something. That's way beyond assumptions. What you think of me, I don't care.

I didn't call you a straw man. You don't seem to know what a straw man is. A straw man is a logical fallacy: Claiming that your opponent claimed something he didn't claim so you can refute that claim.

And in China it is typical and quite common that people use breaks in their work to have a sleep. Like I could have ten minutes sleep during my lunch break, but I don't because (a) I'm not used to it, and (b) it's an unusual thing where I work. In China, it is normal. Has nothing to do with too much work. That has been posted repeatedly. If you don't understand it, and still claim it is a sign of being overworked and not just a thing that normal people in China in normal jobs just do, then this must be deliberate on your side.

----------

Mike Daisy overall was right, just do some research, this does not excuse destroying the greatest industrial base ever created, made from the ground up, not transferred and cheated to get like communist china.

He was "overall right"? He saw hundreds of underage workers that didn't exist, including twelve year olds (excuse me, but why on earth would Foxconn employ someone who is twelve year old? They can't pay them less than a 16 year old, and the 12 year old won't get the work done. ) that nobody else saw, and interviewed kids that according to his interpreter were never there.

He talked to a man whose hands were crippled from the hard work assembling iPhones - except the man had never touched an iPhone. He just made it all up.

So please explain to me what research would show that Mike Daisy was "overall right". Mike Daisy did lots of research and didn't find any dirt even though he tried hard to find it, so he had to make it up. So what research do you suggest that I should do, when Mike Daisy, who travelled to China, visited the factories, didn't actually find anything wrong and had to invent things?

You are basically saying that China is a horrible place, because it is reported to be horrible, and when someone claims that he was there and saw how horrible it is and that man is then proven to be a liar, then he is still right because you just know the place is horrible.

 

[apolloa]

God, you don't get it.

I don't make assumptions about you. Every single post of yours, every single one, is attacking Apple for something. That's way beyond assumptions. What you think of me, I don't care.

You sir are someone who only sees what they want to see, I could prove you utterly utterly wrong and post links to all my praises of Apple, or perhaps I should post photographs of my Apple devices, but what's the point? My post history is there for all to see.

And in China it is typical and quite common that people use breaks in their work to have a sleep. Like I could have ten minutes sleep during my lunch break, but I don't because (a) I'm not used to it, and (b) it's an unusual thing where I work. In China, it is normal. Has nothing to do with too much work. That has been posted repeatedly. If you don't understand it, and still claim it is a sign of being overworked and not just a thing that normal people in China in normal jobs just do, then this must be deliberate on your side.

So, you claimed someone told you it was common, and now you are just saying it, so where is your proof this is normal? You have provided no proof to back up this claim apart from 'you said so'

 

[linuxcooldude]

Mike Daisy overall was right, just do some research, this does not excuse destroying the greatest industrial base ever created, made from the ground up, not transferred and cheated to get like communist china.

Oh, I've done extensive research on Mike Daisy already. He defends his statements by saying he's a "Story Teller" and it was a theatrical piece. In other words: Made up, fiction, a fabrication. The Cornish Collage of the arts revoked his honorary degree because of this.

For instance he claimed to talk to workers who were poisoned by hexane. But in all actuality:

Mike Daisy: I met workers in, um, Hong Kong, going to Apple protests who had not been poisoned by hexane but had known people who had been, and it was a constant conversation among those workers.

Third party information and not directly from the source among many discrepancies.

 

[lacek]

I remember a UNICEF report (1997 http://www.unicef.org/sowc97/download/sow2of2.pdf) that stated that banning children from working in sweat shops resulted in children finding a new jobs. Street prostitution among others. I am skeptical about these things. Still the Apple program seems better then those in 90's.

series of follow-up visits by UNICEF, local non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and the International Labour Organization (ILO) discovered that children went looking for new sources of income, and found them in work such as stone-crushing, street hustling and prostitution