Apple Partnering With American Express on iPhone Mobile Payments Initiative [Updated]

[PhiLLoW]

Credit cards have every advantage over cash/check/etc. All it takes is self control, and if you don't have that, I think that is less of the card's fault than your own.

...

I'm curious as to how Germans handle loans, credit scores, and online purchases if no one uses credit cards. Or were you just being sensationalist in your description of how little they are used there.

If you pay off your balance in full at the end of every month, you never pay interest. You build your credit score. And you probably save a lot of money by getting rewards back.

We use cards that transfer the money instantly. We're not running around with cash and 99,9% have never use a check. It simply doesn't exist here.

In your system you pay with your credit card and pay off your balance a month later. Our cards skip the company in the middle and your money is transferred directly from your account which is a much better solution IMO.

If you have a regular income you can overdraw your account but you have to pay interest in the end of the months. ( is overdraw the right word. I'm talking about -350€ for example )
You can also tell your bank that you don't want to overdraw your account.

And in the case you buy more stuff on amazon than you can actually pay for or don't pay your monthly internet plans you will be registered at the "SCHUFA".

 

[IJ Reilly]

Good old AMEX, the card nobody accepts outside the US of A. Apple really are struggling these days. iTunes Radio is still unavailable in most countries, Apple Store app on iPad never made it outside the US of A. Apple Maps is pretty crap in most countries outside the US. Apple TV is pointless outside the US. Tim has to change this, people are running away from Apple at this rate. The USA are not the only market for Apple, they really are losing it. It makes me cringe how bad they are in the UK. They are a waste of time here, shockingly embarrassing!!!

Suggestion: read story, then type.

 

[3282868]

One extremely crucial factor regarding cash vs. credit:

Debit cards and cash do not go towards establishing credit. Only credit cards are considered for the "big three" credit monitoring companies: Transunion, Equifax and Experian determine one's credit rating and risk based on revolving credit, the more history of paying monthly credit on time the better your factors. This is crucial as any or all of these reporting agencies are used to determine your qualifications for a mortgage, car purchase or lease, opening other accounts, etc. Suze Orman has recently petitioned the U.S. Government to accept debit card activity as a means of establishing good credit, whether this pushes through has yet to be determined.

It's crucial to spend within your limits but not having and regularly using a credit card (even if you buy a stick of gum once a month and pay it off) will only hurt you in the end (especially not using it, your credit rating will drop if cards go unused).

 

[flatfoot99]

Credit Cards give the buyer protection.

Theft? Unauthorized purchases? Shady dealer? If I used a credit card it's not my problem. I'm safe and my money is safe.

Cash, debit cards, personal checks, etc - all huge vectors of fraud.

Just because you have a credit card it doesn't mean you have spend beyond your means. Only charge what you know you can pay back quickly.

This^^^^

never use a debit card unless its at your banks atm.

 

[BruiserB]

I'm guessing that while Apple adding NFC isn't tied directly to card companies in the US moving to Chip & PIN technology, the two are probably related. Chip cards are going to force new hardware, so I'm guessing the new hardware will also have NFC integrated into it. This is an example of Apple only releasing a technology at the right time. Google was premature with Google Wallet and hasn't been able to gain traction. Apple will roll this out at the same time terminals are being upgraded anyway and it will appear as though Apple ushered in the new technology even though it's been partially implemented for years. I'm sure there will be a special name for it.....maybe TouchPay? Again Apple is almost never first, but they have better timing for finding the tipping point for new technologies.

 

[flatfoot99]

I'm guessing that while Apple adding NFC isn't tied directly to card companies in the US moving to Chip & PIN technology, the two are probably related. Chip cards are going to force new hardware, so I'm guessing the new hardware will also have NFC integrated into it. This is an example of Apple only releasing a technology at the right time. Google was premature with Google Wallet and haven't been able to gain traction. Apple will roll this out at the same time terminals are being upgraded anyway and it will appear as though Apple ushered in the new technology even though it's been partially implemented for years. I'm sure there will be a special name for it.....maybe TouchPay? Again Apple is almost never first, but they have better timing for finding the tipping point for new technologies.

I wonder how this will work. So it looks like iphone will work wherever visa, amex and mastercard are excepted, but what if I have discover tied to my itunes account. Will that work or will I have to get a new credit card to make it work? I wonder how the fees are going to be split up? Cant wait to see how its going to work!

 

[BruiserB]

Also this really nothing to do with the credit/debit debates that are going on. Visa/MC/Amex don't only issue "credit" cards. They run the electronic payment systems that process both credit and debit transactions. I'm guessing the deals aren't so much about the cards the companies are issuing, but about having compatibility with the processors' point of sale terminals.

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I wonder how this will work. So it looks like iphone will work wherever visa, amex and mastercard are excepted, but what if I have discover tied to my itunes account. Will that work or will I have to get a new credit card to make it work? I wonder how the fees are going to be split up? Cant wait to see how its going to work!

I'm not exactly sure how the payment systems work, but I bet Discover transactions are handled through the Visa/MC/Amex networks. I suppose someone here will have more familiarity. But if so, I see no reason you wouldn't be able to make a Discover purchase.

 

[matrix07]

Why does it then tell me, my billing address does not match my credit card records. ( I tried an address of chicago fire department )

You shouldn't use your existing card. You should buy iTunes Gift card instead, or buy a new card that you can have any address you want. There's a seller for that kind of cc card.

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Why would you want your bank account tied to your online payments. I think of credit card as a financial firewall. If someone puts a fraud charge, it does not affect my bank balance and cause ripple effect.

I bought from Amazon a lot, since 2000. Not a single problem. I don't mind tying my cc with a responsible company like Apple. I won't do this for any company though, so I get your point.

 

[kdarling]

I'm guessing that while Apple adding NFC isn't tied directly to card companies in the US moving to Chip & PIN technology, the two are probably related. Chip cards are going to force new hardware, so I'm guessing the new hardware will also have NFC integrated into it.

Yep, extremely related.

This is an example of Apple only releasing a technology at the right time.

Or in this case, because they had little other choice. Deadlines are coming, Apple or not.

Google was premature with Google Wallet and hasn't been able to gain traction.

I don't think Google cared if they got traction right away. That's more like something Apple worries about.

Apple will roll this out at the same time terminals are being upgraded anyway and it will appear as though Apple ushered in the new technology even though it's been partially implemented for years.

An Apple specialty.

I'm sure there will be a special name for it.....maybe TouchPay? Again Apple is almost never first, but they have better timing for finding the tipping point for new technologies.

Yep, Apple is good at waiting until others have spent lots of time and money preparing a market. They're very smart in this respect.

 

[DotCom2]

Yep, extremely related.



Or in this case, because they had little other choice. Deadlines are coming, Apple or not.



I don't think Google cared if they got traction right away. That's more like something Apple worries about.



An Apple specialty.



Yep, Apple is good at waiting until others have spent lots of time and money preparing a market. They're very smart in this respect.

I'll go with later and smarter thank you very much!

 

[kdarling]

I'll go with later and smarter thank you very much!

It's a good choice, and nothing wrong with it.

OTOH, a lot of us are early adopters of technology, even if a bit rough around the edges.

We're the reason others get to come later on and look good, after learning from previous mistakes.

You're welcome

 

[BruiserB]

Looks like TouchPay is already taken.

http://touchpayonline.com

But that hasn't always stopped Apple! Will be interesting to see how they brand this.

 

[CoMoMacUser]

I've yet to see anyone use NFC to make a purchase. Granted, I live in a relatively rural area of New England, but even in metropolitan areas I visit (Boston, NYC) are people really clamoring for this feature? It takes five seconds to take a debit card out of my wallet and swipe it. Surely it will take much longer to pull out the phone, unlock it, open the payment app, wait for the connection, and confirm the purchase.

Agreed. I'll be interested to hear Apple explain the user benefits. I don't find it a hassle to pay with a credit card, and I can't think of any situations where I'd have my phone but not my wallet and need to make a purchase. Apple would need to enable digital driver's licenses that states will accept before I'd consider leaving my wallet at home.

I could see Touch ID being a big draw for card issuers and merchants by enabling multi-factor authentication. But for consumers, enhanced security isn't terribly compelling.

 

[ajvizzgamer101]

AMEX is good but if they don't have Visa/Mastercard at the start it wouldn't work.

 

[kdarling]

Apple would need to enable digital driver's licenses that states will accept before I'd consider leaving my wallet at home.

That's what I keep saying. We need electronic driver's license copies. And a way to start our car from it too.

Then just make it waterproof, and I'll be all set for a day at the beach

 

[Dulcimer]

AMEX is good but if they don't have Visa/Mastercard at the start it wouldn't work.

Did you read the updated article?

 

[ardent73]

responsible with money and credit cards don't belong in the same sentence. The price of goods is higher than needs be simply because people use credit cards.

No. You think cash and coin counting, a time safe and an armored car service is free? If you don't use them, then expect a really expensive audit from the Internal Revenue Service or a really expensive robbery .

Some cards are rather expensive for the retailer, such as Amex and Diners. For the big ones (Visa, Master), you're talking about a fraction of a percent. Also, many people, even retailers, seem to think that cash has no cost attached to it, but that is obviously dead wrong.

Yes.

 

[V.K.]

I'm guessing that while Apple adding NFC isn't tied directly to card companies in the US moving to Chip & PIN technology, the two are probably related. Chip cards are going to force new hardware, so I'm guessing the new hardware will also have NFC integrated into it. This is an example of Apple only releasing a technology at the right time. Google was premature with Google Wallet and hasn't been able to gain traction. Apple will roll this out at the same time terminals are being upgraded anyway and it will appear as though Apple ushered in the new technology even though it's been partially implemented for years. I'm sure there will be a special name for it.....maybe TouchPay? Again Apple is almost never first, but they have better timing for finding the tipping point for new technologies.

You are making a good point about Apple capitalizing on merchants having to upgrade their hardware anyway. However, outside US many merchants have done so already (in Canada tap-to-pay terminals are VERY common now) and yet I don't believe I've ever seen anybody paying for anything with their NFC phone. people pay with their NFC credit cards all the time but not with phones. I am not sure why. I am also extremely curious what an Apple mobile payment system will be able to do that can't be done with google wallet right now. I assume they do have something fairly significant up their sleeve but I can't think what.

 

[Gasu E.]

You know it's 2014, now, right? 1987 was 27 years ago.

OTOH, I was in Germany in 1992, and AmEx was taken there at MultiCenter, and at the Best Western I stayed at. The local restaurants, not so much.

Since 1987, Germany has:
1. Torn down that wall Mr. Reagan was talking about.
2. Grown by about 33% (Germans, please correct my math on East/West Germany sizes)
3. Dropped the first name (West or East)
4. Moved it's capital from Bonn to Berlin
5. Started using credit cards widely.

(edited to add "since 1987..." and thereafter.)

You are right, thanks for reminding me-- it was actually 1989, as the Berlin Wall had come down three weeks before. So we were already past points 1-4. BTW, I did manage to get to Berlin on that trip, and it was amazing at that particular moment in time.

And, as Mr. Bushido, an actual German, has told us, Germans are still not fond of credit cards. In 1989, they were not widely used outside the big cities, which was not true in any of the twenty other nations I traveled to in that period. Doesn't that tell you something, Jeffy? Perhaps not you, but others might draw some significance from it.

Edit: I note that others in this thread note that German progress in this area has been slow since the time I mention.

 

[Gasu E.]

A credit or debit card hardly takes up any room, plus a wallet holds other cards and cash and also driving licenses.
If your phone is lost or stolen you have to contact your mobile provider to get it blocked instantly and sometimes report it to the police in order to get a replacement phone.

So no, your argument that you made as to why leaving a wallet at home is flawed. Your also much more likely to be mugged for the latest iPhone then your debit card.

You keep making the strange assumption (strange for this site, anyway) that the consumer is making a choice between a smart phone and a credit card. The choice is:

a. separate phone and credit cards
b. credit card incorporated into the phone

If you have your phone stolen in either case, you have to report the phone stolen. But in case a, you also have to report your credit cards if they are stolen. In case b., that never happens.

As far as the size of the credit cards is concerned, that's certainly a lesser issue. But I, for one, carry four credit cards, and many people carry multiple cards as well. Getting rid of those would be significant.

In addition, I have other cards, such as customer loyalty cards, that get scanned at the point-of-sale; there's no reason the chain stores that issue these can't adopt the same NFC tech once it's widely accepted, saving even more wallet space. I have other cards that potentially could be replaced as well.

Again, the key point you seem to be missing is: I already have an iPhone, so any gain I get is free. I'm not trading off fewer cards in exchange for the weight and expense of an iPhone.

 

[BruiserB]

You are making a good point about Apple capitalizing on merchants having to upgrade their hardware anyway. However, outside US many merchants have done so already (in Canada tap-to-pay terminals are VERY common now) and yet I don't believe I've ever seen anybody paying for anything with their NFC phone. people pay with their NFC credit cards all the time but not with phones. I am not sure why. I am also extremely curious what an Apple mobile payment system will be able to do that can't be done with google wallet right now. I assume they do have something fairly significant up their sleeve but I can't think what.

I'm guessing marketing and TouchID is what Apple will do differently. Sounds like Canada already has the infrastructure. Why don't people use phones there now? I assume it's possible, but people just don't do it? Does one need to have specifically enrolled in Google Wallet? Is it harder to use a phone than to just touch the card?

Apple may overcome this if your iTunes card is your default card....no enrollment necessary....people have already given iTunes their info. Sure you will probably be able to add more cards, etc., but a large majority of people will be happy to just use their iTunes payment card and they will be instantly enrolled.

Also touching your home button and tapping your phone will be really simple and secure. I don't know how this compares to current NFC solutions? Do they now require a password or PIN? If so, maybe using the card directly has been simpler. Maybe Apple will change this.

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A credit or debit card hardly takes up any room, plus a wallet holds other cards and cash and also driving licenses.
If your phone is lost or stolen you have to contact your mobile provider to get it blocked instantly and sometimes report it to the police in order to get a replacement phone.

So no, your argument that you made as to why leaving a wallet at home is flawed. Your also much more likely to be mugged for the latest iPhone then your debit card.

But if your phone is stolen, no one will be able to get your account numbers or make payments unless they also steal your fingers. (assuming TouchID is necessary for payment). If your wallet/cards are stolen, they can be used up until the time you call and cancel.

I'm guessing a lot of people carry phone and wallet in close proximity to each other now (in a purse or have a card holding phone case, etc) so they're probably often lost or stolen simultaneously now as it is. At least eliminating the wallet will secure your account info. I wouldn't be surprised to see some states begin to issue digital drivers licenses/IDs at some point that can be stored in your phone. The phone will become the new wallet with contents secured by your fingerprint.

 

[DeathChill]

It's a good choice, and nothing wrong with it.

OTOH, a lot of us are early adopters of technology, even if a bit rough around the edges.

We're the reason others get to come later on and look good, after learning from previous mistakes.

You're welcome

Not sure if you'd be directly knowledgeable about this but is the system being ushered into the USA the same system already in use in Canada? Tap-to-pay is almost everywhere here now and I am curious if they are likely to be compatible.

 

[jlake02]

I, for one, am very happy Apple is FINALLY getting into the phone-pay business. I was annoyed the iPhone 5 didn't have it 2 years ago. Excited to see how it works.

 

[Gasu E.]

What's crazy is that it is still the same for many things. So backward. It's total rubbish that it's about not spending money you don't have. If that's the case just get a debit card rather than a credit card. Simple and so much easier and more convenient!

Honestly I was speechless, almost shocked when we couldn't pay for things with cards in Germany.

To be fair, it wasn't like that so much in the big cities. Even in 1989, the hotel that wouldn't take credit cards was out in the country. My Berlin hotel was perfectly happy to take Mastercard.

Interesting to see a couple of you confirming that progress has been slow in twenty years. There is a little gnome in this thread who has been mocking me for citing a bit of history.

 

[Mashurrab]

people in Germany have yet to adopt to credit cards let alone mobile payments lolol.

credit cards to us means you buy things you cant actually afford

Which is the correct way to look at it. No need to adapt to credits cards