Apple Partnering With American Express on iPhone Mobile Payments Initiative [Updated]

[V.K.]

You keep making the strange assumption (strange for this site, anyway) that the consumer is making a choice between a smart phone and a credit card. The choice is:

a. separate phone and credit cards
b. credit card incorporated into the phone

If you have your phone stolen in either case, you have to report the phone stolen. But in case a, you also have to report your credit cards if they are stolen. In case b., that never happens.

As far as the size of the credit cards is concerned, that's certainly a lesser issue. But I, for one, carry four credit cards, and many people carry multiple cards as well. Getting rid of those would be significant.

In addition, I have other cards, such as customer loyalty cards, that get scanned at the point-of-sale; there's no reason the chain stores that issue these can't adopt the same NFC tech once it's widely accepted, saving even more wallet space. I have other cards that potentially could be replaced as well.

Again, the key point you seem to be missing is: I already have an iPhone, so any gain I get is free. I'm not trading off fewer cards in exchange for the weight and expense of an iPhone.

to add to your list I would mention the following benefit. all those NFC credit cards require no authentication to use when used as NFC cards. There is a transaction limit (50$ in Canada) but if used several times that can still add up quickly. Case in point: a few days ago I dropped my BMO paypass mastercard somewhere and didn't realize it until I got home in the evening and found a phone message from a bank branch saying that somebody found my card and brought it in. That was a very nice person obviously but it didn't have to be that way. If you only have your phone with you there is no such danger.

 

[monaarts]

The only way I see this or the I watch taking off is if they are combined. Don't have your iPhone or don't want to pull it out of your pocket/purse? Just use your finger for Touch ID on your watch and then tap it to pay. If you don't want to buy an I watch, no problem - you can use your phone.

Either way, the receipt can be found at any time using the built in purchase app on your iPhone or iCloud.com account.

 

[BruiserB]

The only way I see this or the I watch taking off is if they are combined. Don't have your iPhone or don't want to pull it out of your pocket/purse? Just use your finger for Touch ID on your watch and then tap it to pay. If you don't want to buy an I watch, no problem - you can use your phone.

Either way, the receipt can be found at any time using the built in purchase app on your iPhone or iCloud.com account.

I wonder if the watch will authenticate against some different bio data than a fingerprint? I think a home button would be unsightly on a watch....too big. And having to touch before paying would not be much more convenient than using your phone.

Could the iWatch authenticate to your heart beat? Is each person's unique in some way? If the watch could somehow know that the owner is wearing it, then it would be the ultimate simple pay device.

 

[V.K.]

I'm guessing marketing and TouchID is what Apple will do differently. Sounds like Canada already has the infrastructure. Why don't people use phones there now? I assume it's possible, but people just don't do it?


Does one need to have specifically enrolled in Google Wallet? Is it harder to use a phone than to just touch the card?

I don't have an android phone so can't say too much about this issue but I would think it should be possible although I just realized that google wallet is only available in US. Not sure if android NFC payments can be made without google wallet. If not that would certainly explain it. Another reasons might be consumer awareness. In Canada touch-to-pay cards and terminals have been around for a while but from my observations their use by consumers has only taken off in the last year.

Apple may overcome this if your iTunes card is your default card....no enrollment necessary....people have already given iTunes their info. Sure you will probably be able to add more cards, etc., but a large majority of people will be happy to just use their iTunes payment card and they will be instantly enrolled.

Also touching your home button and tapping your phone will be really simple and secure. I don't know how this compares to current NFC solutions? Do they now require a password or PIN? If so, maybe using the card directly has been simpler. Maybe Apple will change this.

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But if your phone is stolen, no one will be able to get your account numbers or make payments unless they also steal your fingers. (assuming TouchID is necessary for payment). If your wallet/cards are stolen, they can be used up until the time you call and cancel.

I'm guessing a lot of people carry phone and wallet in close proximity to each other now (in a purse or have a card holding phone case, etc) so they're probably often lost or stolen simultaneously now as it is. At least eliminating the wallet will secure your account info. I wouldn't be surprised to see some states begin to issue digital drivers licenses/IDs at some point that can be stored in your phone. The phone will become the new wallet with contents secured by your fingerprint.

using Touch id for authentication is certainly a no brainer but I don't think that's enough to be a "killer feature" driving consumer adoption. we'll see.

 

[BruiserB]

using Touch id for authentication is certainly a no brainer but I don't think that's enough to be a "killer feature" driving consumer adoption. we'll see.

That's where Apple's marketing kicks in!

 

[Gasu E.]

You, someone like you, keeps saying that yet I used Credit cards in Berlin in the 1990s and obviously now. Not sure what your saying there. Maybe its a Berlin thing, but there at least you can use it extensively.

Berlin is (and was, even in the 1990s) one of the most cosmopolitan places in Germany. It really is an extreme. Not that there aren't other cities where credit cards are widely accepted, but Berlin isn't representative of anywhere except Berlin.

 

[CoMoMacUser]

My Nexus 4 has NFC and Google Wallet. I've yet to find a merchant that will take it. It's as superfluous as a second *******.

 

[Mtmspa]

I wish this was going to work with a 5 or 5s since i won't upgrade for another year or two.

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Berlin is (and was, even in the 1990s) one of the most cosmopolitan places in Germany. It really is an extreme. Not that there aren't other cities where credit cards are widely accepted, but Berlin isn't representative of anywhere except Berlin.

Most people here don't care about Germany. I am sure it is a good country and all, but their past is still why I would never go there.

 

[candle]

I don't want everything, such as mobile payments, to be phone-dependent.

 

[BruiserB]

Berlin is (and was, even in the 1990s) one of the most cosmopolitan places in Germany. It really is an extreme. Not that there aren't other cities where credit cards are widely accepted, but Berlin isn't representative of anywhere except Berlin.

Again, it doesn't really matter whether or not Germans use credit cards, but whether Germans use cards (debit) to make payments.

Aren't EC Debit cards in common use there? It appears EC is closely allied with Maestro. Guess what? Maestro is MasterCard/EC joint venture. Guess who is probably dominant in Germany's electronic payment system.....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocheque

Quote:

On 1 September 1992, Eurocheque International C.V. and Eurocheque International Holding N.V. merged with EUROCARD International N.V. into a single company, Europay International S.A., incorporated under Belgian law.[9] Europay relocated to Waterloo, Belgium, where they shared the same address as the Europe, Middle East and Africa region of MasterCard International, and the headquarters of the Eurocard-MasterCard joint-venture, Maestro International.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Most people here don't care about Germany. I am sure it is a good country and all, but their past is still why I would never go there.

Better not come to the US either. The past has a lot of skeletons in the closet here too.

 

[randyj]

I've yet to see anyone use NFC to make a purchase. Granted, I live in a relatively rural area of New England, but even in metropolitan areas I visit (Boston, NYC) are people really clamoring for this feature? It takes five seconds to take a debit card out of my wallet and swipe it. Surely it will take much longer to pull out the phone, unlock it, open the payment app, wait for the connection, and confirm the purchase.

In Australia we have Paypass/Paywave almost everywhere.
The limit is $100 per transaction so for petrol, supermarkets, restaurants, retailers etc you just tap your wallet and go. (My card works from inside my wallet)
Above $100 you use a PIN number, otherwise the payment is almost instant.

 

[monaarts]

I wonder if the watch will authenticate against some different bio data than a fingerprint? I think a home button would be unsightly on a watch....too big. And having to touch before paying would not be much more convenient than using your phone.

Could the iWatch authenticate to your heart beat? Is each person's unique in some way? If the watch could somehow know that the owner is wearing it, then it would be the ultimate simple pay device.

If Apple can figure out a way to make the entire watch face the Touch ID they have something going. ;-)

 

[V.K.]

That's where Apple's marketing kicks in!

I don't think marketing can take you too far if the implementation is not great. I think whatever Apple comes up with, ease of use will be much more important than marketing. Many people here poo-poo NFC credit cards (probably having never used them) but I find them much more convenient than regular credit cards (no need to navigate through any screens and enter any PINs) even if they only save a few seconds. if Apple payment system is equally easy to use it will have a chance. This is something Apple is good at so I am somewhat hopeful.

 

[alectheking]

I wonder if the watch will authenticate against some different bio data than a fingerprint? I think a home button would be unsightly on a watch....too big. And having to touch before paying would not be much more convenient than using your phone.

Could the iWatch authenticate to your heart beat? Is each person's unique in some way? If the watch could somehow know that the owner is wearing it, then it would be the ultimate simple pay device.

Or the could use their patent for putting the Touch ID sensor under the screen. It would automatically bring up the "Identification alert" once a tap to pay is started. The iWatch would be able to maintain its clean design and interface, and it would allow all iPhones that support iOS 8 to get into the mobile wallet game without having to upgrade your phone also.

heres the patent link https://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/25/apples-plans-to-enhance-touch-id-with-trackpad-capabilities-and-display-integration-revealed/

 

[BruiserB]

In Australia we have Paypass/Paywave almost everywhere.
The limit is $100 per transaction so for petrol, supermarkets, restaurants, retailers etc you just tap your wallet and go. (My card works from inside my wallet)
Above $100 you use a PIN number, otherwise the payment is almost instant.

PayPass = MasterCard
PayWave = Visa

Funny.....in Googling PayWave I just found this story.....this could have been prevented with TouchID required!

http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/news/paywave-mix-up-at-checkout/2370221/

 

[alectheking]

If Apple can figure out a way to make the entire watch face the Touch ID they have something going. ;-)

Well, they have a patent for it already. https://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/25/apples-plans-to-enhance-touch-id-with-trackpad-capabilities-and-display-integration-revealed/

 

[BruiserB]

I don't think marketing can take you too far if the implementation is not great. I think whatever Apple comes up with, ease of use will be much more important than marketing. Many people here poo-poo NFC credit cards (probably having never used them) but I find them much more convenient than regular credit cards (no need to navigate through any screens and enter any PINs) even if they only save a few seconds. if Apple payment system is equally easy to use it will have a chance. This is something Apple is good at so I am somewhat hopeful.

Agreed. I've just leapt to the assumption that Apple will do it right. That's why they've waited on the sidelines and developed TouchID. If it's any more difficult than putting your phone near the reader and touching the home button, then they've messed up....but I doubt it will be.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Besides the initiative with American Express, Visa and Mastercard, if I hear that Apple will team up to support mobile payments by Rakuten Edy and Mobile Suica in Japan and Olleh Touch in South Korea, that right there is final confirmation the iPhone 6 models does have a full NFC radio/antenna subsystem.

 

[cocky jeremy]

people in Germany have yet to adopt to credit cards let alone mobile payments lolol.

credit cards to us means you buy things you cant actually afford

That's how life works. Buy things you can't afford, pay for it as you go.

 

[ninethirty]

Huh? Who actually aspires to live this way??

That's how life works. Buy things you can't afford, pay for it as you go.

 

[phassat]

people in Germany have yet to adopt to credit cards let alone mobile payments lolol.

credit cards to us means you buy things you cant actually afford

Not really things you can't afford... It's about people perception for sure because I know in several other countries, they were ashamed if they use credit card cause it looks like they don't have enough money from other community eyes...
To me it is convenient because you don't have to bring too much money, you don't have to deal with, literally, dirty money, you have data at the end of the month of things that you spent on so you can check your spending habit and use that data, one month delay cash flow out meaning that you maximized the interest on your bank account, discount and promotion from credit card companies, and so many other beneficial factor...

One thing for sure, spent only what you can afford, even with credit card.... I have never had a bill that I can not afford to pay by the end of month... Yes, credit card need more self-control than cash and that's the cons.

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So, I go to this nice restaurant and have a dinner..... All the food and drink cost me $100 and then I decide to pay it with my iPhone 6 that already linked to my credit card....

Previous Credit Card System
- Gave the credit card to the waitress
- Waitress take the card and the bill
- Waitress gave it to cashier then cashier swipe the card and put the $100
- Waitress come back and gave you the credit card bill to sign on

with iPhone 6
- Gave the waitress the phone? Maybe not
- So, do you have to come with her to the cashier to make payment?

I just think that this is a bit convenient? or maybe I am too lazy but normally you don't have to go to cashier to pay (in a restaurant scenario)

In my country there is no NFC payment system... How does it works currently in other countries?

 

[peterdevries]

My Nexus 4 has NFC and Google Wallet. I've yet to find a merchant that will take it. It's as superfluous as a second *******.

It's currently still superfluous because of all the customers that enter any given store only a tiny percentage will have a phone with those capabilities. And then even a tiny percentage of those customers will be aware and willing to use the functionality. To put it differently: there is no real focused demand for the functionality yet on android due to extreme fragmentation and a lack of awareness and marketing around the functionality at both the customer and the vendor side,

Now I can see this go differently with Apple. Practically no fragmentation, especially after a few years when all iPhones will have NFC and NFC-less have been phased out. And Apple is generally quite good in marketing and rolling out these kinds of functionalities (with a few exceptions). Even passbook is by now quite well adopted in Airlines and retail (although there is still quite a way to go).

 

[EightBitJoe]

people in Germany have yet to adopt to credit cards let alone mobile payments lolol.

credit cards to us means you buy things you cant actually afford

That is very fortunate. Keep in mind that the US also has "debit cards" which act like credit cards but pull funds directly from your checking account. It allows for the convenience of a credit card without the debt.

 

[brisben]

I've yet to see anyone use NFC to make a purchase. Granted, I live in a relatively rural area of New England, but even in metropolitan areas I visit (Boston, NYC) are people really clamoring for this feature? It takes five seconds to take a debit card out of my wallet and swipe it. Surely it will take much longer to pull out the phone, unlock it, open the payment app, wait for the connection, and confirm the purchase.

I live in Australia and we have the highest rate of adoption for PayPass/PayWave/NFC payments in the world. For phones with an NFC chip already in them, you don't need to open an app or turn the screen on or even unlock the phone - simply tap you phone on the merchant terminal and it's done!! Personally I cannot wait to have this tech in my iPhone!!

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Not really things you can't afford... It's about people perception for sure because I know in several other countries, they were ashamed if they use credit card cause it looks like they don't have enough money from other community eyes...
To me it is convenient because you don't have to bring too much money, you don't have to deal with, literally, dirty money, you have data at the end of the month of things that you spent on so you can check your spending habit and use that data, one month delay cash flow out meaning that you maximized the interest on your bank account, discount and promotion from credit card companies, and so many other beneficial factor...

One thing for sure, spent only what you can afford, even with credit card.... I have never had a bill that I can not afford to pay by the end of month... Yes, credit card need more self-control than cash and that's the cons.

----------

So, I go to this nice restaurant and have a dinner..... All the food and drink cost me $100 and then I decide to pay it with my iPhone 6 that already linked to my credit card....

Previous Credit Card System
- Gave the credit card to the waitress
- Waitress take the card and the bill
- Waitress gave it to cashier then cashier swipe the card and put the $100
- Waitress come back and gave you the credit card bill to sign on

with iPhone 6
- Gave the waitress the phone? Maybe not
- So, do you have to come with her to the cashier to make payment?

I just think that this is a bit convenient? or maybe I am too lazy but normally you don't have to go to cashier to pay (in a restaurant scenario)

In my country there is no NFC payment system... How does it works currently in other countries?

In Australia, we have a very high rate of mobile merchant facilities that can be brought to the table to facilitate payment - so you don't need to leave the table and neither does your iPhone!!