Apple Patent Suggests Future iPad Could Transform Into macOS-Like Experience When Attached to a Keyboard

[jakey rolling]

This is ironic, given Apple's public stance on [sic] "We will not produce a touch-capable Mac" (in essence, this is what they are providing here). When in fact, they had been toying with the idea all along apparently. HP is ahead of the game with this. Personally, I think at least the Macbooks should be touch-capable.

"We will not make a touch-capable mac" is the 2020's version of "we will never make a PDA/Newton" in the very early 2000's. Even when Inkwell came out with Mac OS X Jaguar all the way back in 2002, Apple was very steadfast in saying that the Newton was dead and that Apple had no plans for a PDA.

Then, of course, Apple made a PDA. They just slapped a cell phone in it and called it an iPhone.

Pretty sure this is just another step in Apple's plan to "not really" give us a touch-enabled Mac, but to actually give us a "touch-enabled Mac*"

 

[DNichter]

Meh, everyone's user experience is different so I don't really want to discount yours, but Windows works quite well in a touch paradigm, I use it this way every day. That tired old excuse of having the "best" touch and desktop experiences is IMO just Apple's way of convincing customers they need two separate devices.

If anything Apple convinced me I need a converged device like a Surface Pro because I can't get the same functionality out of a Macbook or an iPad, especially if I have to cart both of them around. Having to carry both and switch between them IMO is just about the "worst" touch and desktop experience around.

Your experience may be different, but our default work laptops are Surface's and I couldn't stand trying to use it without the keyboard trackpad. I would welcome Apple's implementation of such a device because I don't think it has been done very well just yet.

 

[noone]

"We will not make a touch-capable mac" is the 2020's version of "we will never make a PDA/Newton" in the very early 2000's. Even when Inkwell came out with Mac OS X Jaguar all the way back in 2002, Apple was very steadfast in saying that the Newton was dead and that Apple had no plans for a PDA.

Then, of course, Apple made a PDA. They just slapped a cell phone in it and called it an iPhone.

Pretty sure this is just another step in Apple's plan to "not really" give us a touch-enabled Mac, but to actually give us a "touch-enabled Mac*"

They also weren't going to make a stylus either, but we've now got the Apple Pencil. It's arguably much more than the styli of 2007, but it's still a stylus.

 

[boyarka]

I really like to think back to "what's a computer" iPad ad. You know, from back in the day when Apple pretty much claimed that the era of "computers" as such is a by-gone. Then the "laptop-like" keyboards and stands started appearing. Then the users who supposedly wanted a tablet ended up using them as a laptop. That whole touchscreen magic evaporated overnight as who the f*** wants to use a touchscreen when a mouse and/or touchpad is available and easy to use. And now comes this - transform your lame tablet into a halfway decent laptop.

 

[DNichter]

I really like to think back to "what's a computer" iPad ad. You know, from back in the day when Apple pretty much claimed that the era of "computers" as such is a by-gone. Then the "laptop-like" keyboards and stands started appearing. Then the users who supposedly wanted a tablet ended up using them as a laptop. That whole touchscreen magic evaporated overnight as who the f*** wants to use a touchscreen when a mouse and/or touchpad is available and easy to use. And now comes this - transform your lame tablet into a halfway decent laptop.

I would say it's more so that people want a device that can be both. iPad is great as a tablet, sitting on the couch, in bed, or traveling. The goal is to optimize that same device for desk use, which is obviously better with a trackpad and keyboard. It's not that complicated.

 

[spinedoc77]

Your experience may be different, but our default work laptops are Surface's and I couldn't stand trying to use it without the keyboard trackpad. I would welcome Apple's implementation of such a device because I don't think it has been done very well just yet.

For my use case I can't stand the trackpad on most devices, even the Macbooks. I just never thought it ergonomically easier (or healthier) to try and contort my wrist around when I could simply touch the screen, that's one of the major reasons I will always prefer a Surface over a full Macbook. It's been years now since I've last used a trackpad unless I was forced to, that paradigm change has to be one of the most liberating computer experiences I've had with hardware.

 

[DNichter]

For my use case I can't stand the trackpad on most devices, even the Macbooks. I just never thought it ergonomically easier (or healthier) to try and contort my wrist around when I could simply touch the screen, that's one of the major reasons I will always prefer a Surface over a full Macbook. It's been years now since I've last used a trackpad unless I was forced to, that paradigm change has to be one of the most liberating computer experiences I've had with hardware.

I agree on trackpads with long term use, I definitely prefer a mouse. I don't agree regarding your point on touching the screen though, I don't think touch for long term use is any better than a trackpad.

 

[spinedoc77]

I agree on trackpads with long term use, I definitely prefer a mouse. I don't agree regarding your point on touching the screen though, I don't think touch for long term use is any better than a trackpad.

Ergonomically it's night and day, especially in cramped spaces where laptops would be more used.

 

[Luposian]

"We will not make a touch-capable mac" is the 2020's version of "we will never make a PDA/Newton" in the very early 2000's. Even when Inkwell came out with Mac OS X Jaguar all the way back in 2002, Apple was very steadfast in saying that the Newton was dead and that Apple had no plans for a PDA.

Then, of course, Apple made a PDA. They just slapped a cell phone in it and called it an iPhone.

Pretty sure this is just another step in Apple's plan to "not really" give us a touch-enabled Mac, but to actually give us a "touch-enabled Mac*"

Your memory is incorrect... Newton was around before 2000. In fact it was killed OFF before 2000:

Apple Newton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Apple started developing the platform in 1987 and shipped the first devices in August 1993. Production officially ended on February 27, 1998. Newton devices ran on a proprietary operating system, Newton OS; examples include Apple's MessagePad series and the eMate 300, and other companies also released devices running on Newton OS. Most Newton devices were based on the ARM 610 RISC processor and all featured handwriting-based input.

The Newton was considered technologically innovative at its debut, but a combination of factors, some of which included its high price and early problems with its handwriting recognition feature, limited its sales. This led to Apple ultimately discontinuing the platform at the direction of Steve Jobs in 1998, a year after his return to the company."

 

[Luposian]

I will say, however, my wife tells me, that if she could use her iPad as her MacBook (or the apps were cross-platform combatible - the iPad version of some Adobe apps are not quite the same as the macOS version)), she'd get rid of her Microsoft Surface Pro. She'd RATHER use macOS (or iPadOS or whatever), over Windows... period.

 

[Yoms]

Although this is still a rumour, to me it's been the best one for a long time.

That said, if it's "just" an upgraded version of iPadOS and not truly macOS it means we're still stuck with the Apple Store.

 

[theotherphil]

Finally, my $2,250 iPad might do something more than doodle on ProCreate ?

(yes I'm the idiot who spent two grand to use a $10 app)

Sounds like you needed a laptop all along

 

[theotherphil]

Soooooo, does anyone here think Apple has heard of the Microsoft Surface devices?

It makes you wonder how thorough the patent search process was...

Did MS patent the Surface? Did Apple apply for a patent before MS? Is either parties patent substantially different from the other?

 

[Loge]

To be useful it needs to run all the same apps as macOS. That's the real problem with iPad - the apps just aren't there and they are just not being ported (with a few exceptions).

 

[theotherphil]

I am definitely in the minority here, but I don’t really see that big of a use. Sure, it is better than not having one, but I just don’t see what great features we can get out of this without productivity software. For example, if this will allow installing Logic Pro or FCP on the iPad and allow them to run when keyboard is attached, that would be awesome.

As of now, softwares like procreate and other iPadOS productivity softwares are fine as they are. What iPad is really missing is FCP and Logic.

I agree, the iPad screen is far too small to be running MacOS in any usable fashion....try using it with sidecar and see. It is a usability nightmare.

However, the patent does not describe MacOS running on iPad. It describes iPadOS with 3 different modes so I think a number of people who really want MacOS are going to be disappointed.

That 3rd docked mode, is likely going to enable cross compiled MacOS apps to run under iPadOS. I think this was the grand plan for Catalyst all along....not just allowing iPad/ iPhone apps to run on the Mac, but to also allow MacOS apps to run on the iPAD.

You abstract away the UI elements and the core code is likely the same or very similar. The App Store, Catalyst and Xcode then handles the correct interpretation based on the device ID and usage "modes" available.

And this is how Apple's statement "We will not be putting MacOS on the iPAD" remains true.

 

[theotherphil]

they got a lot of work to do. to make iPadOS just like macOS.

Like change the whole file system to save things locally on an iPad.

right now it seems all cloud based.

And if they do this people will just buy an iPad and Mac laptops will take a huge hit in sales.

Most people want the touch screen experience. a regular MacBook will get left behind if touch screen is never implemented on Macs.

But the actual data on this says otherwise...in the vast majority of touch enabled windows computers, users never use the touch screen. So it's adding cost, thickness, weight and energy consumption to a device and it never gets used. In some cases, the energy consumption alone (1-2hrs less use) means it's not a good idea. This cost/ weight/ size/ energy saving could be used on better components or other features.

The ergonomics of a touch screen laptop suck....even the American National Standards Institute agree with Apple on that one: https://blog.ansi.org/2016/01/ergonomic-hazards-of-touch-screens/

This is exactly the same as everybody complaining on MR about the lack of Bootcamp on Apple Silicon Macs. Reading these forums, you'd think 95% of users used Bootcamp and they were all saying that they wouldn't buy another Mac. Looking at the actual data though, Apple said less than 0.5% of users ever used Bootcamp.

Sometimes, when we step away from our "beliefs" and "wants" and examine the data, we can see things a lot more clearly.

 

[XXPP]

Soooooo basically Samsung DEX.

Nope. Dex has no aps.

 

[XXPP]

Soooooo basically Samsung DEX.

Nope. Dex has no aps.

They also weren't going to make a stylus either, but we've now got the Apple Pencil. It's arguably much more than the styli of 2007, but it's still a stylus.

You are wrong. Jobs talked about using a stylus to handle the interface. Not for writing or drawing.

 

[jakey rolling]

Your memory is incorrect... Newton was around before 2000. In fact it was killed OFF before 2000:

I'm aware of that. You mistook what I was referring to. Yes, the Newton as a product was killed during Apple's major design focus change in the late 1990's. I was more referring to the rumor mill and what Mac users were asking for during the ensuing years after Newton was killed off.

The late 90's and especially early 00's saw PDAs in general start to become more popular, with PalmOS (Palm, Handspring, Sony), and Windows CE (Compaq, probably others) being the two leading platforms of the time. Palm-based devices being popular with Mac users because it was compatible and became integrated with iSync. But at its best, there was never the same "magic" that many Mac users felt with the Newton.

There was a pretty vocal segment of Mac users who wanted Apple to come up with a new PDA of their own that encompassed some of the technology they fondly remember about the Newton (most notably, the handwriting recognition that was far superior to what existed in PalmOS). Apple bringing Inkwell (very Newton-like handwriting recognition) to Jaguar just stoked the rumors of Apple working on a PDA. After all, Inkwell seemed like an odd feature to add to a desktop OS that only runs on computers for which there were no first-party touch-screens being manufactured. Apple spent the next four or five years either deflecting or denying those rumors, pretty much until they unveiled the iPhone.

 

[jakey rolling]

Did MS patent the Surface? Did Apple apply for a patent before MS? Is either parties patent substantially different from the other?

You're missing the point. Theoretically, you can't patent something that already exists. Whether MS patented the Surface or not is beside the point - if Apple were to try to patent something that already exists in the Surface (or Samsung Dex as others have mentioned), that patent shouldn't be granted.

Now, of course, that is the theory. As we've seen for pretty much the entirety of computer history, companies have managed to patent all sorts of inventions that are apparently either obvious designs or that other companies had already invented. It is apparent that the US Patent office has taken the position that it is up to the courts and not the patent office to decide when an idea is patentable or not.

 

[Aston441]

Not my idea - but eventually the iPhone will be our computer, with the phone itself being the trackpad in a device, almost like a docking station.

OG Motorola Android RAZR did that.

I had one.

It was neat but idiot management killed one of the greatest companies in history.

 

[jakey rolling]

I am definitely in the minority here, but I don’t really see that big of a use. Sure, it is better than not having one, but I just don’t see what great features we can get out of this without productivity software. For example, if this will allow installing Logic Pro or FCP on the iPad and allow them to run when keyboard is attached, that would be awesome.

As of now, softwares like procreate and other iPadOS productivity softwares are fine as they are. What iPad is really missing is FCP and Logic.

While I understand that many Mac users (especially a larger-than-normal majority of those here) define "productivity software" as being software used to edit video, photos, or music, it would be good to remember that there is a whole huge population of Mac users that do other stuff with their computers (yes, even for a living) that doesn't include any of those things.

Just mentioning one other major "productivity" sector (you know, the one that actually cuts the cheques for you "creative types"), this functionality coupled with Excel, Teams, Power Automate, PowerBI, Tableau, Dynamics 365, etc. would be incredible for many accounting teams or even higher-level execs (though, the latter of those mostly consume information, and they can already do that with iOS-based versions of PowerBI/Tableau/etc).

 

[bradman83]

The question is does this work retrograde with 2018+ iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard, just M1 powered iPads, or only a new iPad Pro and new Magic Keyboard that looks closer to what’s in the schematic above? If it works with all iPads with an attached keyboard/mouse/trackpad this could be huge and what many of us have been waiting for.

2018 and 2020 iPad Pros only have 4-6 GB of RAM. Complicating this further is that iPadOS doesn’t support virtual memory or swap files, so that 4-6 GB doesn’t go as far as it would with a traditional desktop OS. I suspect an M1 chip or higher will be required just for the memory.

 

[Suicidy]

Soooooo basically Samsung DEX.

But way better.

 

[Luposian]

2018 and 2020 iPad Pros only have 4-6 GB of RAM. Complicating this further is that iPadOS doesn’t support virtual memory or swap files, so that 4-6 GB doesn’t go as far as it would with a traditional desktop OS. I suspect an M1 chip or higher will be required just for the memory.

There's a thing called "efficient programming", but no one does that anymore... gone are the days when an entire OS fit into 192K of ROM (Atari ST).