Apple Pay Coming to Canada's Banks Starting With RBC and CIBC Today

[tmiw]

Honestly, I don't care if the payment method is 10 seconds slower. I like to chat with the cute cashier behind the counter anyways, and it makes for a great excuse to do so. If people have a problem with me using my card the way it's supposed to be used, that's their problem, and obviously they've never seen or used a chipped card before. .

Visa & MasterCard are rolling out extra fast EMV payments in the U.S. It's not a big deal honestly.

In regards to the signature, my SDFCU Credit & Debit cards are both chip and pin, as stated on the letter that came with them, so that argument doesn't exist with me either.

Banks tend to play fast and loose with the terms they use. For instance, there's a very good chance that your SDFCU credit card will only ask for a PIN at something like a train ticket machine and never anywhere with an live cashier (unless that changed recently). As for debit cards, the PIN is still optional just like it was before swiping, so I still consider them chip and signature.

Also, even with Visa's Quick Chip and the MasterCard equivalent EMV's still going to be slower than Apple Pay. Whether people in general care about that after a certain point though is another question.

Canada, welcome to the ApplePay mess.

It's only really a mess in the US.

 

[trekkie604]

Just enrolled my RBC Avion into it. We'll see how it works as it's 8 minutes to lunch! I can see why they want the Wallet app as it asks for the PVQ you set up in online banking and it's probably best not to share those to a 3rd party (Apple)...

 

[notjustjay]

I mean obviously Pizza Hut doesn't make their own credit card terminals--however, they can request different ones which are capable of accepting NFC and chipped payments, and can be handed over to the customer or face them directly at all times.

Right, but I imagine it's a big hassle for a large chain like Pizza Hut to say "Ok everyone, starting next month we're all ditching our current payment terminals and going to the new Verifone terminal". There's going to be ordering, supply chain, training, and all kinds of paperwork hassle, not to mention tech support and IT issues, and disposal/return of the old units, for thousands of individual stores or franchisees. I don't blame someone at some corporate HQ saying it's just not worth the hassle.

We do have alcohol stores, but they're referred to as liquor stores.

Ah, he's referring to the wonderfulness that is the Liquor Control Board of Ontario and "The Beer Store". If you want to buy beer in Ontario there is literally only one place to go to. (Though as mentioned that is now starting to change, supermarkets are now allowed to sell small quantities of beer.)

 

[bigchrisfgb]

Ah, he's referring to the wonderfulness that is the Liquor Control Board of Ontario and "The Beer Store". If you want to buy beer in Ontario there is literally only one place to go to. (Though as mentioned that is now starting to change, supermarkets are now allowed to sell small quantities of beer.)

Thats not a actually a bad thing. Here in the UK shops can sell alcohol 24/7 (except Scotland), anywhere from the corner shops to supermarkets. They sell them in high quantities and low price, it's sometimes cheaper to buy alcohol than it is to buy pop (Soda). We now have a nation that is drinking far too much (thanks to clubs also selling cheap drink) and are on the verge of a pandemic of Liver problems.

 

[American Hero]

Banks tend to play fast and loose with the terms they use. For instance, there's a very good chance that your SDFCU credit card will only ask for a PIN at something like a train ticket machine and never anywhere with an live cashier (unless that changed recently). As for debit cards, the PIN is still optional just like it was before swiping, so I still consider them chip and signature.

I thought that was only the case for chip and signature--where it defaulted to signature, and then went to PIN at a terminal without a person?

I've used a PIN everywhere I've used my chip and pin credit card.

 

[peterh988]

We do have alcohol stores, but they're referred to as liquor stores.

In the UK we call them 'Off Licence" (or the 'Offy') They have a licence to sell alcohol for consumption 'off' the premises, as opposed to a restaurant which has an 'on' licence. (And could/should prevent you taking an unfinished bottle of wine home with you, as their licence doesn't allow them to sell alcohol for consumption of the premises.)

 

[American Hero]

Right, but I imagine it's a big hassle for a large chain like Pizza Hut to say "Ok everyone, starting next month we're all ditching our current payment terminals and going to the new Verifone terminal". There's going to be ordering, supply chain, training, and all kinds of paperwork hassle, not to mention tech support and IT issues, and disposal/return of the old units, for thousands of individual stores or franchisees. I don't blame someone at some corporate HQ saying it's just not worth the hassle.

Plenty of merchants have done it. Grocery stores with 15 check out registers, two customer service lines, and two pharmacy techs have their chipped terminals up and running (places like Wegmans), so Pizza Hut, a chain with one terminal per restaurant should have no problem with it.

I understand ordering the terminals takes time, but some companies just haven't made the effort to even do that step yet. One of the dumbest concepts ever is the terminal that's attached to the screen where the person swipes it through... And these seem to be widely used thoughout the food industry.

 

[tmiw]

I thought that was only the case for chip and signature--where it defaulted to signature, and then went to PIN at a terminal without a person?

I've used a PIN everywhere I've used my chip and pin credit card.

It depends on the card. Most chip and signature cards don't have a PIN at all.

 

[American Hero]

In the UK we call them 'Off Licence" (or the 'Offy') They have a licence to sell alcohol for consumption 'off' the premises, as opposed to a restaurant which has an 'on' licence. (And could/should prevent you taking an unfinished bottle of wine home with you, as their licence doesn't allow them to sell alcohol for consumption of the premises.)

The UK and Canada have the best of everything. The U.S is stuck in the 1950's.

 

[jozero]

Listing stores that support ApplePay only makes it more confusing. Once your bank Credit Card supports it, doesn't it work in virtually *any* store with tap to pay terminals ? Canada has had tap to pay terminals and chip credit cards forever. Why confuse the issue by listing some random stores ?

 

[American Hero]

It depends on the card. Most chip and signature cards don't have a PIN at all.

They have a PIN but not used for purchases. All DEBIT cards have PIN's regardless. All CREDIT cards have ATM pins for cash advances.

 

[Stella]

Canada, welcome to the ApplePay mess.

Seems to work fine here. Why do you consider it messy?

 

[peakman]

You know what the funny thing is? These SAME retailers complain about having to support contactless or chip in the United States, yet they're all equipped to do both of those in Canada.

Pizza Hut, Staples, Tim Horton.. .All of them aren't even remotely close to being up to date on payment technology in the United States.

Probably another few years for it to be generally available…

 

[superliu]

YES!!!!!!!! Waited so long for this!

 

[Wondercow]

Your chip on your card already sends a one time activation code to the merchants which is worthless to hackers.

This is something I don't get. Do people honestly believe the banks are complete idiots who don't know the first thing about transactions so they have a wide open vulnerable system. But Apple has some sort of magic that makes their system perfectly secure?

I guess I should use Apple pay to protect my credit card company from their own stupidity. Really, all companies except apple should shut down and give Apple their assests because only Apple knows how to do anything right in any industry.

Man-in-the-middle attacks won't work with Apple Pay, the terminals that came pre-hacked directly from the manufacturer would be safe for Apple Pay, online payments are safe with Apple Pay, NFC sniffing (if it can still be done) won't work with Apple Pay.

Also, I realize it's not just Apple Pay; any of the tokenized payment systems will offer the same benefits.

 

[Micool1]

I'm just waiting for Desjardins to support it, which will probably take a while.

 

[Wondercow]

This is something I don't get. Do people honestly believe the banks are complete idiots who don't know the first thing about transactions so they have a wide open vulnerable system. But Apple has some sort of magic that makes their system perfectly secure?

It quite funny--you're being sarcastic and dismissive but that is why the credit card companies were willing to give Apple a cut of the fees. The tokenized system is such a good deterrent, or solution, to fraud that even with giving Apple a cut they still save money. Idiots? No. Vulnerable system? Yes. Tokenization helps and reduces costs from fraud? Yes.

 

[CanadianGuy]

To this day, you still see a confused look on a McDonald's cashier's face when you use Apple Pay in the states... And Apple Pay rolled out there a year and a half ago.

My favourite example of this was when I was in San Francisco for WWDC last year, and tried to use Apple Pay (with a US card) at a burger joint. I asked if they have Apple Pay, and the cashier said "we don't have Apple Pie, just Sundae's".

 

[American Hero]

My favourite example of this was when I was in San Francisco for WWDC last year, and tried to use Apple Pay (with a US card) at a burger joint. I asked if they have Apple Pay, and the cashier said "we don't have Apple Pie, just Sundae's".

Those kind of people will never advance past their fast food careers.

 

[XboxMySocks]

I'm actually very surprised that Tangerine, PC Financial, or any of the credit unions went behind this first (or even TD, and I use that bank. And Tangerine. ). They like to be first when it comes to these things (at least, in Canada).

Also, I told you so!

Are you honestly surprised PC Financial isn't compatible? I'm not at all.

 

[mistafro]

Just went to Shoppers Drug Mart, paid for my milk with my Apple Watch, worked so slick. Amazing!

 

[tmiw]

They have a PIN but not used for purchases. All DEBIT cards have PIN's regardless. All CREDIT cards have ATM pins for cash advances.

Sure, but realistically you're not going to use your credit card in an ATM unless it's an absolute emergency. For purchases PIN is very unlikely to be asked for unless you use the card in a kiosk or gas pump overseas. And even then most cards won't because they're not set up to support PIN in those cases.

 

[Douglas B]

...

Also, I thought it strange that I need to be signed into iCloud to keep my Apple Pay cards active - sign out of iCloud and Apple Pay disappears, why is that?

You can log into the iCloud website and deactivate ApplePay for a device in case your phone is stolen. Maybe it's there for people who think their passcode might be guessed. So on the phone end, ApplePay has to be able to check in with iCloud.

 

[American Hero]

Sure, but realistically you're not going to use your credit card in an ATM unless it's an absolute emergency. For purchases PIN is very unlikely to be asked for unless you use the card in a kiosk or gas pump overseas. And even then most cards won't because they're not set up to support PIN in those cases.

Sure with a big bank's credit card you wouldn't; however, when your card doesn't charge you a cash advance fee, and the interest rate is only 7.24%, then who cares? Besides my cash advances are relatively small (around $40).

 

[nope7308]

I'm very curious to see the uptake rates here in Canada. Personally, I don't see any benefit to Apple Pay -- tapping the credit card is still exponentially faster and much more convenient, at least in my view. You don't risk dropping an expensive phone or making yourself a target of theft, either.