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Apple Pay for Transit Now Works in These 12 U.S. Cities

germanbeer007 said:
glad you pointed this out

in tokyo, rush hour means you'll be going during crush hour where a literal subway attendant will push you in (still happens to this day). That's if you can squeeze in. there's often a line to get ONTO the subway car, making you wait 10-20 minutes just to get on the subway. and good luck transferring to the next train line.

and because subways cost tens to hundreds of billions of dollars and many decades to build, Tokyo has no solution to this crush hour problem.
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The solution is just run another train, more frequently. You can do a train every 30 seconds with the right signaling system. Trains also allow you to turn up and go, without having to download an app, without having to plan for anything, just show up to the station, tap your Apple Pay Express Transit and go. Tesla tunnels, Waymo’s, and autonomous garbage all require you to pre-plan where you are going to go, download an app, and wait.
 
dontwalkhand said:
The solution is just run another train, more frequently. You can do a train every 30 seconds with the right signaling system. Trains also allow you to turn up and go, without having to download an app, without having to plan for anything, just show up to the station, tap your Apple Pay Express Transit and go. Tesla tunnels, Waymo’s, and autonomous garbage all require you to pre-plan where you are going to go, download an app, and wait.
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tokyo already maxed out the lines. that's not the solution, otherwise they would have done it 30 years ago.

also a Waymo picks you up where you are and drops you off at your destination. much faster even factoring in one time app download.

and there is absolutely a lot of planning with subways like in tokyo: 521515706_122176444214375070_5273682734703526623_n.jpg
 
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germanbeer007 said:
you should look up:
www.boringcompany.com

The Boring Company

The Boring Company constructs safe, fast-to-dig, and low-cost transportation, utility, and freight tunnels.
www.boringcompany.com www.boringcompany.com
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The subway is already mostly underground… where do you think the name comes from? And it’s massive, 850mi of track…

And as for transit I want you to compare the throughput of any given mass transit system to a bunch of teslas driving in a circle around a tunnel.
 
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seek3r said:
The subway is already mostly underground… where do you think the name comes from? And it’s massive, 850mi of track…

And as for transit I want you to compare the throughput of any given mass transit system to a bunch of teslas driving in a circle around a tunnel.
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never said a subway isn't underground, where did I say otherwise?

with Tesla tunnels, if one tunnel isn't enough, they can build many layers and it'll still cost less than one subway tunnel. so whatever metric you come up with in terms of throughput of a single tunnel, it doesn't quite matter when the total system will still cost less to build and to run.

this is the problem with people who are constantly ******** on boring company, they ignore costs.
 
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germanbeer007 said:
not sure what's the point when Waymo and Tesla robotaxis are going to make these legacy transit options obsolete.
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The math of that doesn’t add up. A Washington Metrorail train can hold about 1,200 people. Now it’s rarely at full capacity but at rush hour they’re carrying around 800-900 people (they’re pretty full these days). Try dumping 800 cars onto the roads - autonomous or not, there’s going to be gridlock. That would fill multiple city blocks, bumper to bumper. And that’s one train in one direction - and DC isn’t nearly as dense as a place like New York or many major international cities. Individual vehicles can’t come close to the carrying capacity of rail.

Plus a Waymo ride is running about $20 these days (I’m actually using Uber as a comparison, as their pricing tracks in other cities and DC doesn’t have Waymo yet - but hopefully will soon). Costs me $2-3 to ride metro (and before you complain about subsidies, Metrorail’s farebox recovery rate is 28%, still making the full cost of the ride at half what Waymo would charge for a similar trip - and I have a fairly short commute). No way I’d pay way more just to sit in traffic.

Now you will get throughput improvements if you completely banned human driven-vehicles, but that’s not happening anytime soon.

Transit makes way more sense in dense, walkable cities. The only way to make cars work is to spread everything out and make huge roads, which makes walking harder and less plesant. I’m pro-autonomous vehicles but they’re not a substitute for transit in real cities (i.e. actual dense cities, not car-focused sprawl).
 
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rnizlek said:
The math of that doesn’t add up. A Washington Metrorail train can hold about 1,200 people. Now it’s rarely at full capacity but at rush hour they’re carrying around 800-900 people (they’re pretty full these days). Try dumping 800 cars onto the
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you don't need 800 cars for 800-900 people because

1. 4-5 seats
2. 1 car can make 12 trips in an hour in a boring company tunnel
3. higher capacity cars coming

So that's not a correct take.

rnizlek said:
Plus a Waymo ride is running about $20 these days (I’m actually using Uber as a comparison, as their pricing tracks in other cities and DC doesn’t have Waymo yet - but hopefully will soon).
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Waymo currently doesn't have much competition yet other than uber but metrics have shown people are willing to pay more for a Waymo over an Uber.

Tesla's early robotaxis that are driverless so far are 2x-5x cheaper.

rnizlek said:
Costs me $2-3 to ride metro (and before you complain about subsidies, Metrorail’s farebox recovery rate is 28%, still making the full cost of the ride at half what Waymo would charge for a similar trip - and I have a fairly short commute). No way I’d pay way more just to sit in traffic.
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Again, competition showing 2x-5x less than Waymo which would be cheaper than an unsubsidized metro rail ticket. not to mention a train doesn't get you to where you need to be and often needs a last mile bus, additional cost.
rnizlek said:
Transit makes way more sense in dense, walkable cities. The only way to make cars work is to spread everything out and make huge roads, which makes walking harder and less plesant. I’m pro-autonomous vehicles but they’re not a substitute for transit in real cities (i.e. actual dense cities, not car-focused sprawl).
Click to expand...

boring company tunnels makes a city extremely walkable.
 
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rnizlek said:
The math of that doesn’t add up. A Washington Metrorail train can hold about 1,200 people. Now it’s rarely at full capacity but at rush hour they’re carrying around 800-900 people (they’re pretty full these days). Try dumping 800 cars onto the roads - autonomous or not, there’s going to be gridlock. That would fill multiple city blocks, bumper to bumper. And that’s one train in one direction - and DC isn’t nearly as dense as a place like New York or many major international cities. Individual vehicles can’t come close to the carrying capacity of rail.

Plus a Waymo ride is running about $20 these days (I’m actually using Uber as a comparison, as their pricing tracks in other cities and DC doesn’t have Waymo yet - but hopefully will soon). Costs me $2-3 to ride metro (and before you complain about subsidies, Metrorail’s farebox recovery rate is 28%, still making the full cost of the ride at half what Waymo would charge for a similar trip - and I have a fairly short commute). No way I’d pay way more just to sit in traffic.

Now you will get throughput improvements if you completely banned human driven-vehicles, but that’s not happening anytime soon.

Transit makes way more sense in dense, walkable cities. The only way to make cars work is to spread everything out and make huge roads, which makes walking harder and less plesant. I’m pro-autonomous vehicles but they’re not a substitute for transit in real cities (i.e. actual dense cities, not car-focused sprawl).
Click to expand...
Autonomous vehicles actually can work as a last mile solution to people who don’t live near a major bus line or train station. But thats all it should be used for, to get people to the transit. That way you won’t give up on the densfication and walkability of the areas close to the transit.
 
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dontwalkhand said:
Autonomous vehicles actually can work as a last mile solution to people who don’t live near a major bus line or train station. But thats all it should be used for, to get people to the transit. That way you won’t give up on the densfication and walkability of the areas close to the transit.
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why do first mile + transfer and pay another fare + wait for the next train + wait pay again for last mile drop off vs just paying the entire fare once and arrive at your destination?
 
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germanbeer007 said:
why do first mile + transfer and pay another fare + wait for the next train + wait pay again for last mile drop off vs just paying the entire fare once and arrive at your destination?
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Microtransit systems done right, would not require a separate fare. The MaaS system would know that you are going to a bus stop, and charge you just the day pass for the regular bus. That would include your Autonomous ride, and the regular bus ride. See: Glydways in CA. It takes a Clipper Card tap like a bus, the Clipper system knows to calculate the fare accordingly.

Cities built right, the autonomous part would only be in the suburb part, the train or bus ride would drop you off right near your destination already, there would not be a third transfer.
 
dontwalkhand said:
Microtransit systems done right, would not require a separate fare. The MaaS system would know that you are going to a bus stop, and charge you just the day pass for the regular bus. That would include your Autonomous ride, and the regular bus ride. See: Glydways in CA. It takes a Clipper Card tap like a bus, the Clipper system knows to calculate the fare accordingly.
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"done right" doing a heavy lifting.

if it doesn't cost you anything then either the train ticket you're taking costs more, or the tax payers are paying for you.

here in Los Angeles, there's metro micro and the current trip time is about 54 minutes to travel 2 miles to the nearest metro link station. costs $2.50. for a 7 mile trip, that's 2 micro rides x $2.50 = $5 + $4.25 for metro link =$9.25.

home -> micro -> metro link -> micro -> destination.

current reporting of tesla's robotaxi is $3 base rate + $1.40/mile. zero walk other than to outside your house. $12.80 to go 7 miles.

home -> robotaxi -> destination.
 
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germanbeer007 said:
not sure what's the point when Waymo and Tesla robotaxis are going to make these legacy transit options obsolete.
Click to expand...
Not if Waymos continue to block traffic when the light is green which they did where I live last weekend. Three were lined up in a row and blocking traffic when the light when green with no way of getting around them. Just sitting there on pause. Lots of kinks to still work out with those.
 
germanbeer007 said:
"done right" doing a heavy lifting.

if it doesn't cost you anything then either the train ticket you're taking costs more, or the tax payers are paying for you.

here in Los Angeles, there's metro micro and the current trip time is about 54 minutes to travel 2 miles to the nearest metro link station. it also requires me to walk 8 minutes to a designated stop. costs $2.50.
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Well Los Angeles is the very definition of car dependent sprawl. Of course it would take 54 minutes to go 2 miles.
 
germanbeer007 said:
never said a subway isn't underground, where did I say otherwise?

with Tesla tunnels, if one tunnel isn't enough, they can build many layers and it'll still cost less than one subway tunnel. so whatever metric you come up with in terms of throughput of a single tunnel, it doesn't quite matter when the total system will still cost less to build and to run.

this is the problem with people who are constantly ******** on boring company, they ignore costs.
Click to expand...
Do you have any idea how hard it is to tunnel under a city like NYC? Do you have any idea how much buried infrastructure there is?
 
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styymy said:
Not if Waymos continue to block traffic when the light is green which they did where I live last weekend. Three were lined up in a row and blocking traffic when the light when green with no way of getting around them. Just sitting there on pause. Lots of kinks to still work out with those.
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early tech. Vancouver skytrain had issues with debris causing stalling due to high sensitivity of the system.
 
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To use a senior fare (discount) in DC anyway, a real card is required. To acquire one at a kiosk/transit store one needs to provide state issued ID. As far as I can tell e-cards are incapable of supporting this. Albeit stiil very handy when traveling.
 
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