Apple Pay Holdout Target Launches New In-App Mobile Payments System

[aristobrat]

This in a word, is stupid. And I say that as someone who actually uses and likes the Target app and cartwheel savings discounts. But to not support an industry standard and create their own system is just dumb. Could you imagine if we had to pay with a different app for each store we visited? This proprietary nonsense needs to go the way of the dinosaur.

IMO, Target created "their own system" (and accompanying "proprietary nonsense") back in 1995, when they first introduced their store card.

Giving their customers the option to move that card into the app (so they don't have to carry it around in their wallet) doesn't really seem like anything new, IMO.

Target REDcard is not a credit card. It is a debit card linked to your checking/saving account. There is no interest charged.

FWIW, Target offers both credit and debit versions of the REDcard.
https://www.target.com/c/redcard/-/N-4tfyn

 

[NeroAZ]

Coming from the company that just got hacked and have the slowest chip readers in the world. I say no to shopping there at all.

Just? That was like 2 years ago.
[doublepost=1512484762][/doublepost]

Their app only supports the REDcard, which I presume costs them less to run than a regular debit or credit card. It's why they offer 5% back on Target purchases using it.

Since they own the bank that issues it “Target National Bank” I would say it’s costs them nothing to use/accept.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I have never stepped into a target

I stepped into a Target several times but each time I came away with nothing.

 

[NeroAZ]

another reason to boycott Target...the first being their idea that hanging a christmas tree upside down is cool (look it up) ...no, its insulting to the Reason for the Season.

Your comment is ridiculous. Is the reason for the season a tree in your house? How is that insulting.

 

[Phonephreak]

They probably have gold stars there if you would like to purchase some as I am out

Why would I want a gold star? I just haven’t ever been in a target.

 

[ehrens]

Didn't want to skim thru the thread but I wanted to point out something.

I am a die hard Apple Pay user but this Target Wallet is super convenient. If you're a redcard holder, you probably already use Cartwheel. And if that's the case, all this does is wrap your redcard info (including PIN) into the app. So you literally open the Cartwheel barcode, authenticate with Touch ID, and scan just like before. Except now it also automatically moves all the way thru the payment process without any further interaction from you. No PIN to enter, no chip to insert, nada. It also will attach your TM number if you're a TM so you no longer have to scan that card or your badge. So basically if you don't shop at Target often this is probably a loser. But for frequent flyers, it seems like they put the effort in to actually make this easier than Cartwheel + Apple Pay.

 

[TimSHB]

This is actually worse than Wal-Mart pay. I do use Wal-mart pay, and I pretty much exclusively use self checkout there. What I do like is that I can walk up to the register, scan its QR Code then put my phone away and checkout and leave. With Target's process, it looks like you need to wait till the end. Which means you need to be fumbling with your phone during the checkout process and have it ready at the end. Also it looks like coupons get saved in a separate area....why not just load them all into your cartwheel ID? Now you'll need to scan individual coupons first, then Apply Cartwheel and Pay?

Looks like gift cards will be moved over into the wallet. My app says Gift Cards coming soon....not like shown in the pic here. So if I had gift cards and a RED Card, how would I get my Cartwheel discount but pay with my gift cards? Since the Cartwheel Scan seems to also link to paying with your RED Card? Unless there will be an option to use gift card balances first, then RED Card. Still a very clunky flow. But I guess better than when they had separate apps for coupons and Cartwheel and then no way to pay. I still think a Walgreens like Loyalty and ApplePay solution would be better than this mess....and they would get their consumer data that they seem to want.

In the wallet section you can press the REDcard button and select “no payment.” I assume this will allow you to scan your cartwheel coupons and not pay, similar to before.

 

[Shanesan]

use my regular debit card with Apple Pay and not save my 5%.

Goodness gracious, DON'T USE DEBIT CARDS FOR NORMAL TRANSACTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES.

They don't have the fraud prevention that credit cards have and banks will take their sweet time getting your money back to you.

Leave it home.

 

[RWil85]

Goodness gracious, DON'T USE DEBIT CARDS FOR NORMAL TRANSACTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES.

They don't have the fraud prevention that credit cards have and banks will take their sweet time getting your money back to you.

Leave it home.

excuse my ignorance...but, I was wondering about exactly what you posted.

Is there some layer of Apple encryption on top of the transaction that would give additional protection to someone who has linked their debit cards to apple cash/pay and uses it in store?

 

[fmalloy]

Target is not supporting any NFC payments at all.

Maybe because Apple selfishly blocks NFC usage for anyone other than themselves?

 

[neutralguy]

It still doesn't have the same fraud protections as major banks (if any), and the app provides no means of securing your clunky barcode.

What type of fraud can happen with a store credit card? The card can't be used much else except target website and the store. So if somebody is hacking Target to get that card info, then the situation is something else for Target to worry.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

You are speaking bollocks: The Red Card is either debit or credit.

If you do not live in your parent's basement, you can apply for the credit card, which provides the same payment schedule as other credit cards, but sweetens the pot with 5% discount, and free shipping.

Yes, it is linked to your bank account for auto-payment no different than a utility -- gas, electric, ISP, et al.

Dude to each his own.
But sucking to the Apple tree provides no measurable financial gain to you -- which is the bottom line, right?

Not True. My Red Card is a store credit card. It's not linked to my bank account. I pay it off every month like every other credit card. Please don't spread false information.

I wasn't aware they had a true credit card option, I stand corrected. In any case this is the organization that lost 41MM of their customers payment card data via a breach.

@TheShadowKnows! - I am not solely about financial gain, my security and privacy mean a great deal to me of which Apple Pay provides a hefty dose of each. Had Apple Pay not come to be I would be looking for another token based payment system to use. One of the big reasons I like Apple products is because I do not want to become the product, I'm willing to pay a premium on my products and services to maintain that.

 

[captobie]

I have an old Galaxy S7 laying around that I always take with me to Target so I can use Samsung Pay. It's very annoying that they just don't get on the Apple Pay bus, especially considering their past history.

 

[neutralguy]

I wasn't aware they had a true credit card option, I stand corrected. In any case this is the organization that lost 41MM of their customers payment card data via a breach.

Let's not just point finger at Target for the hack. In last one year or so, many companies have been hacked including PayPal. Heck, even NSA got hacked. While I agree that Target should have done a better job in protecting the information, it's not that they were super negligent about it. I know apple is secure, but it's not like Apple has never been hacked. You can never be 100% secured.

 

[ticlortic]

Target today launched its own payments platform, allowing customers to pay for purchases in Target stores using a new Wallet feature in the dedicated Target app available on iOS and Android devices.

Target's Wallet feature lets customers pay with their Target REDCard and get Cartwheel discounts and benefits all in one phone scan during checkout.

To use the feature, Target customers need to add a Target REDCard to the Wallet in the Target app. REDCard is Target's store-branded credit card, which offers customers discounts on purchases.

When checking out in a retail store, Target customers will need to open up the Target app, tap on Wallet, scan coupon barcodes and then scan the wallet barcode to make a purchase.

Target's payments service is a barcode-based system, similar to Walmart's dedicated Walmart Pay option, which uses QR codes. While Walmart Pay supports any major credit, debit, pre-paid or Walmart gift card, Target's Wallet appears to be limited to its own REDCards. Target claims that its new Wallet feature is up to four times faster than other payment types when checking out.Target, like Walmart, is one of the few remaining major companies that have opted not to adopt Apple Pay, Apple's mobile payments service.

As a result, Apple Pay is not available in Target's retail stores, but Target does offer Apple Pay as a payment option in the Target app when making online purchases.

Target is a founding member of the Merchant Customer Exchange (MCX), a now defunct consortium of retailers that planned to launch a payment platform called CurrentC to compete with Apple Pay. CurrentC has been delayed indefinitely, and many MCX members like Best Buy and Rite-Aid have begun accepting Apple Pay.

Earlier this year, Target said it had "no plans" to add in-store support for Apple Pay.

Article Link: Apple Pay Holdout Target Launches New In-App Mobile Payments System

Too many payment systems, becoming annoying. I'll just buy everything form Amazon much easier. Though am sure it will never happen it would be nice if Apple could negotiate Apple Pay on Amazon

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Let's not just point finger at Target for the hack. In last one year or so, many companies have been hacked including PayPal. Heck, even NSA got hacked. While I agree that Target should have done a better job in protecting the information, it's not that they were super negligent about it. I know apple is secure, but it's not like Apple has never been hacked. You can never be 100% secured.

We live in a time when everyone should expect to get hacked at some point, I get that. Knowing that however companies should be taking steps to mitigate damages when they are hacked. There should be monitoring and segmenting to identify attacks and prevent them from quickly spreading. Target taking over two weeks to know they had been penetrated and having the infection spread throughout their entire US network is unacceptable. I'd expect they've learned from that very expensive lesson but I'm still inclined to use systems with one time tokens and data stored uniquely on my own device. That's the epitome of segmentation and means I don't have to care whether any retailer has been hacked provided - unlike Target and Walmart - I was able to use a truly secure payment mechanism.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

I wasn't aware they had a true credit card option, I stand corrected. In any case this is the organization that lost 41MM of their customers payment card data via a breach.

@TheShadowKnows! - I am not solely about financial gain, my security and privacy mean a great deal to me of which Apple Pay provides a hefty dose of each. Had Apple Pay not come to be I would be looking for another token based payment system to use. One of the big reasons I like Apple products is because I do not want to become the product, I'm willing to pay a premium on my products and services to maintain that.

Understood. We both think differently -- not that one is right and the other is not.

In my case, I value financial rewards which trump everything else, while carefully controlling and monitoring the security of my identity and finances (e.g. I do not partake in social networks).

The reality is that the only real security is cutting the umbilical cord to the internet (which is a non-starter).

 

[rjohnstone]

Goodness gracious, DON'T USE DEBIT CARDS FOR NORMAL TRANSACTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES.

They don't have the fraud prevention that credit cards have and banks will take their sweet time getting your money back to you.

Leave it home.

You must have a crappy bank.
My credit union offers the same fraud protection on my debit card as they do for their credit cards.

Also, if your debit card is tied to Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, etc., they are not exposed to fraud as the real card numbers are not used in the transaction.

 

[spacemnspiff]

They probably saw what Walmart did, saw the success,

What metric of success are we talking about here?

 

[69Mustang]

What metric of success are we talking about here?

Second highest usage rate behind Apple Pay. 5.5% usage rate vs 5.1% usage rate.
https://www.pymnts.com/mobile-wallet-adoption-2017/

 

[redneckitengineer]

excuse my ignorance...but, I was wondering about exactly what you posted.

Is there some layer of Apple encryption on top of the transaction that would give additional protection to someone who has linked their debit cards to apple cash/pay and uses it in store?

When linked to ApplePay, the real card numbers are disguised and changed for every transaction. This way if a Merchant was being sniffed for credit card numbers, it would only have grabbed the one time payment numbers that can't ever be used again. It's like a revolving CC # that changes every transaction, in the same way the chip on the card randomizes every transaction.

But debit cards are still more dangerous. In the event of a loss, a bank may not quickly return the funds to the account, and your sitting on the loss for a bit. Most CC will instantly return the balance to you. Plus you have more protections in a CC, a lot have free rental car insurance, extended warranties, etc. Debit is just a key to the bank usually, nothing more.

 

[CLS1]

Come back and talk to us AFTER you have your card data stolen. I bet you will have a different take.

30+ years of using AMEX and or cash.

Did shopping at retailers who only accept Apple Pay protect you from the Equifax breach?

 

[aristobrat]

I'd expect they've learned from that very expensive lesson but I'm still inclined to use systems with one time tokens and data stored uniquely on my own device.

IMO, every major US retailer learned from Target's hack.

It forced most of them to implement end-to-end encryption. E2EE doesn't stop hacks, it just makes the data stolen from hacks pretty much useless.

With E2EE, the Verifone/Ingenico/whatever PIN pad you insert/swipe your card with immediately encrypts your card data (with an encryption key unique to that PIN pad). The retailer doesn't have access to the decrypt keys -- the company they partner with to authorize their payments (or host their payment gateway) does.

The POS/cash register only gets visibility to your partial card number... usually the first six (to figure out what type of card it is), and the last four (for your receipt, and the POS journal). It simply forwards your encrypted card data along for processing at the partner company.

So now hackers can steal/sniff all of the card data they want from most major retailers (something that's virtually impossible to prevent from happening again), but if it's in an environment that uses E2EE, the data is going to be encrypted and useless to them (unless they've also successfully hacked the separate company that holds the decrypt keys).

 

[ksnell]

I used it the other day and I liked how I could pay and use any coupons on Cartwheel all at the same time. Plus I have the Target debit card and I’d rather save my 5% than use my regular debit card with Apple Pay and not save my 5%.

If they really wanted to, couldn't they develop an Apple Pay loyalty card, and then you could add that and your Target debit card to Apple Pay? Then you could simply load the coupons onto the loyalty card and it would apply whatever it could when the card is scanned.

 

[Mikep976]

While I wish they would take Apple Pay, Target obviously has no intention of doing this so they can continue to harvest spending data. I would be semi-ok with this if they took the Starbucks route and let me add the barcode card to the Wallet app fore use there and on the Watch.