Apple Pay Launches in Canada With American Express, Australia Later This Week

[Robstevo]

They should just give everything away for free right?

It takes time, resources and money to :
develop this tech
advertise it
get companies on board
create stickers for merchants
provide support for everyone

We already pay that for the premium we pay for the phones, R&D is simply in built into the price already. Apple are simply squeezing every ounce they can. They are asking banks to give them money, for nothing in return.

How are banks gaining anything? Are they gaining more money? No, Because customers will already use there cards to pay. In a lot of countries (Unlike the USA) NFC chips are already widely used. Therefore places like Australia, Banks gain zero benefit.

Advertise it - They advertise it for there own gain, So buy there phones. Again most of this stuff is most likely built into the phones profits.

Stickers? lol I'm not even replying to that.

It reminds me of all the excuses people made when apple slapped a 30 percent "Tax" On applications.

 

[paulkaliciak]

Don't all Amex cards have the 4 digit code on the front off to the right side?

Edit: I never really noticed, but my card has a 3 digit number on the back (CVV2?) like every other card, but I've never used it. When prompted, I've always had to use the 4 digit number on the front just at the end of the actual card number.

Ahhhh, maybe that was my problem today at Shopper's Drug Mart when I tried to use Apple Pay - my iPhone asked for a 4 digit PIN and I figured it wanted my device unlock number (which didn't work). It hadn't occurred to me that perhaps because it was the first time I was using my iPhone to pay that it wanted the number from the front of my Amex card.

 

[tmiw]

No, Because customers will already use there cards to pay.

That seems like a pretty big generalization. It's totally possible people would have purchased stuff they otherwise wouldn't have simply because they don't have to take a card out of a wallet anymore.

 

[teknikal90]

Surprised they put that much attention to detail, I would have been happy with a classic green.

yeah right...

 

[ipedro]

A senior manager at a Hudson's Bay store said that their credit card and HBC points would soon be coming to Apple Pay. I wasn't sure whether to believe it but then I saw this on Apple.ca:



Given that Hudson's Bay credit card is a MasterCard, I have a good feeling that we'll see all major credit cards supported soon. This also lends credence to the theory that Apple is negotiating with transaction entities like credit card companies and INTERAC (debit) instead of with banks. They were able to reach a deal with AMEX first but VISA and MasterCard shouldn't be far behind and perhaps INTERAC will follow to avoid being left out.

I tried to apply for an AMEX today to get in on the fun but their 60 second instant approval didn't really work, and I have good credit. I've waited this long for Apple Pay so I might just wait for the others to catch up.

 

[Johnny Crash]

Just tried using Apple Pay at SportChek. Fail! I got an "application not supported" error. They accept tap for debit, not credit cards.

 

[tmiw]

A senior manager at a Hudson's Bay store said that their credit card and HBC points would soon be coming to Apple Pay. I wasn't sure whether to believe it but then I saw this on Apple.ca:



Given that Hudson's Bay credit card is a MasterCard, I have a good feeling that we'll see all major credit cards supported soon. This also lends credence to the theory that Apple is negotiating with transaction entities like credit card companies and INTERAC (debit) instead of with banks. They were able to reach a deal with AMEX first but VISA and MasterCard shouldn't be far behind and perhaps INTERAC will follow to avoid being left out.

I tried to apply for an AMEX today to get in on the fun but their 60 second instant approval didn't really work, and I have good credit. I've waited this long for Apple Pay so I might just wait for the others to catch up.

Haven't Visa and MC already signed agreements with Apple, or is that something they have to do on a country by country basis?

 

[ipedro]

Haven't Visa and MC already signed agreements with Apple, or is that something they have to do on a country by country basis?

VISA and Mastercards are issued by the banks so no doubt, they have to sort that out on a per country basis. American Express issues their cards themselves which is a lot easier and probably why Apple got the agreements with American Express first.

Now that Apple Pay is in Canada, I expect that things will move along faster. Like we've seen in the US and the UK, once partners start signing on, the others begin to follow so that they're not left out.

 

[Robstevo]

That seems like a pretty big generalization. It's totally possible people would have purchased stuff they otherwise wouldn't have simply because they don't have to take a card out of a wallet anymore.

What's the difference between taking out your card or taking out your phone?

Or are you saying people will stop taking there wallets out? Fat chance considering:

Phones die.
You need your License to drink, Drive etc so I would say the majority of people will still carry a wallet for such things.

People wills till use their wallets, People will use there phones as well.

But are you really saying a consumer would walk up to something and decide not to buy it, Because they have to go through the major effort of getting a card from a flipping wallet? Are people that lazy?

 

[Poochi]

What's the difference between taking out your card or taking out your phone?

Or are you saying people will stop taking there wallets out? Fat chance considering:

Phones die.
You need your License to drink, Drive etc so I would say the majority of people will still carry a wallet for such things.

People wills till use their wallets, People will use there phones as well.

But are you really saying a consumer would walk up to something and decide not to buy it, Because they have to go through the major effort of getting a card from a flipping wallet? Are people that lazy?

No. If you have many credit cards, it would be very nice to have 1. the most used card, and 2. the least used cards (that you want to maintain active, or specialty scorecards for those extra discounts on occasion) stored in ApplePay, so you no longer have to remember to carry so many cards with you ever again.

 

[ipedro]

What's the difference between taking out your card or taking out your phone?

Or are you saying people will stop taking there wallets out? Fat chance considering:

Phones die.
You need your License to drink, Drive etc so I would say the majority of people will still carry a wallet for such things.

People wills till use their wallets, People will use there phones as well.

But are you really saying a consumer would walk up to something and decide not to buy it, Because they have to go through the major effort of getting a card from a flipping wallet? Are people that lazy?

I stopped carrying my wallet. Right now, I only carry a debit card with me. As soon as I get Apple Pay, I'll stop carrying that too. Phones die, my Apple Watch doesn't. Carrying a Driver's License isn't required for anything except for driving. Keep it in the car. I don't even carry keys with me. My iPhone unlocks my August SmartLock and I have a charger outside for backup.

Plastic cards definitely have their days numbered and when they go, so will wallets.

 

[hollersoft]

I was 1 for 2 today. Success at Tim Hortons; failure at Princess Auto (they accept Amex, but not by tap).

 

[tmiw]

No. If you have many credit cards, it would be very nice to have 1. the most used card, and 2. the least used cards (that you want to maintain active, or specialty scorecards for those extra discounts on occasion) stored in ApplePay, so you no longer have to remember to carry so many cards with you ever again.

This. Also, whatever card ends up as your default card is the one that gets used far more than the others, so it's in a particular bank's interest to support it before another card gets added instead.

 

[Crzyrio]

We already pay that for the premium we pay for the phones, R&D is simply in built into the price already. Apple are simply squeezing every ounce they can. They are asking banks to give them money, for nothing in return.

How are banks gaining anything? Are they gaining more money? No, Because customers will already use there cards to pay. In a lot of countries (Unlike the USA) NFC chips are already widely used. Therefore places like Australia, Banks gain zero benefit.

Advertise it - They advertise it for there own gain, So buy there phones. Again most of this stuff is most likely built into the phones profits.

Stickers? lol I'm not even replying to that.

It reminds me of all the excuses people made when apple slapped a 30 percent "Tax" On applications.

You want Apple to provide a product to the banks for free then? Apple is not forcing anyone to use Apple Pay, it is banks that voluntary sign up or sign up because their customers want it.


Lol your last line pretty much sums it all up.

Both the iTunes store fees and Apple Pay fees are there to cover Apple's cost for providing the service they are.

In the past 10 years apple has barely made any money from the iTunes store.

Banks gain happier customers and they do gain more money by having less fraud. Apple & Android Pay are the most secure ways of payment and there is no argument there.


Apple is a hardware company and makes their profit on hardware, they can't go on offering FREE services to developers, banks and customers and still make money.

That is like saying a Automotive company should offer lifetime maintenance so they can sell more cars. Or free tolls rides lol

 

[Crzyrio]

What's the difference between taking out your card or taking out your phone?

Or are you saying people will stop taking there wallets out? Fat chance considering:

Phones die.
You need your License to drink, Drive etc so I would say the majority of people will still carry a wallet for such things.

People wills till use their wallets, People will use there phones as well.
Emergency
But are you really saying a consumer would walk up to something and decide not to buy it, Because they have to go through the major effort of getting a card from a flipping wallet? Are people that lazy?

My phone already replaces 5 loyalty cards. Once the canadian banks sign up my phone will also replace 3 debit cards and 3 credit cards. Hopefully more loyalty cards soon.

So my wallet has potential to go from 16 cards to just:
1. Drivers License
2. Health Card
3. Emergency Credit Card when phone dies/no NFC
4. Emergency Debit Card

That is a HUGE difference. I now simply have to carry a tiny card holder as I don't use cash anymore.

Also a huge plus is I don't have to dig into my pants in the drive through now, just grab phone of dash

 

[Type4O]

Doesn't work with the Amex issued via Scotia bank (should think only direct issue). Get a message saying Apple Pay is only available in UK and US.

 

[Stella]

Hopefully this move will but tremendous pressure on the greedy Canadian banks. ( I'm looking at you BMO) Once the banks realize that ppl now have a choice they will have to cave in

MC and Visa / bank issued have such a high market percentage, they don't care. Its only the die hard Apple fans who will get Amex solely to use ApplePay.

 

[macaximx]

Just tried using Apple Pay at SportChek. Fail! I got an "application not supported" error. They accept tap for debit, not credit cards.

That is a fail for Sports Chek as Pay isn't set up for debit.

 

[anonymous13579]

Which means pretty much everywhere in Canada.

LOL so true, almost everywhere in Canada has NFC contactless payment

 

[msvadi]

Exclusively for AmEx?! That sucks. AmEx is not that popular in Canada anyway...

 

[SBlue1]

I think you're thinking of Tap & Go... which is a MasterCard trademark. The merchant will need to support both "contactless" and Amex to use Apple Pay Amex.

There are trademark terms tap and go and tap and pay? Didn't know that.

I referef to my german contactless Visa, which we sometimes call tap and pay. It is also accepted at places that take the Master Card contactless only. The staf said they dont take my card yet it worked. As long as the terminal acceps contactless cards my card works.

 

[D582]

The major Canadian banks eventually will support Apple Pay. The real issue is though down to fees, plain and simple. If they did not have to pay Apple anything, then it would have likely already launched. People have cited that US banks seem to pay $0.15 per $100 (0.15%), which does not seem like a lot, but for Canadian banks it is really hard for them to see the value in even that considering all Apple effectively does is assist in provisioning cards to the devices. Card-present fraud rates for credit and debit are already much lower in Canada than in the US, and have been in decline since Canada implemented EMV in 2007/2008, and tokenisation from Apple Pay is hardly going to have a significant impact on that.

The other issue with fees is Interac debit. Banks would also likely want to offer support for Interac transactions via Apple Pay. The problem is, banks earn almost nothing, if anything at all, from an Interac transaction.

When Apple Pay launched in the UK, the Financial Times had reported that banks there negotiated a much better deal throwing out numbers closer to 0.03% or 0.04%. I'd wager that Canadian banks are trying to get a similar deal for credit cards and no fee for Interac.

AMEX launching Apple Pay in Canada, Australia and soon other countries is really just a quick marketing win for both companies. AMEX, being in most cases the bank and the network, and in some cases the acquirer/processor, keeps more of the fees that merchants pay to accept it. Therefore fees potentially paid to Apple are less of a concern. As AMEX runs a pretty well-integrated global system, it is quite trivial for them to enable Apple Pay support in other countries as they did all the heavy lifting for the US launch.

 

[D582]

Given that Hudson's Bay credit card is a MasterCard, I have a good feeling that we'll see all major credit cards supported soon. This also lends credence to the theory that Apple is negotiating with transaction entities like credit card companies and INTERAC (debit) instead of with banks. They were able to reach a deal with AMEX first but VISA and MasterCard shouldn't be far behind and perhaps INTERAC will follow to avoid being left out.

HBC offers two cards - a Store Credit Card that is internal to them only, and a MasterCard. Apple would be referring to the Store Credit Card. But HBC should perhaps first worry about upgrading from their old Ingenico i3070 PIN Pads which do not support Contactless.

Apple needs to make deals with each issuing bank (i.e. TD, RBC, Scotia etc.) in order for their cards to be able to be used with Apple Pay, as it is these banks that have to pay fees to Apple and set up the relevant infrastructure, regardless of the card brand. This is why the Scotiabank-issued American Express card is not currently supported - Apple does not have a deal with Scotiabank.

Apple initially has to work with the payment networks in order for a payment applet to be developed and built into iOS so cards issued by a bank that utilise that network can be used, but Apple has done this for the initial US launch already with Visa, MasterCard, AMEX, and added Discover support earlier this year. They would need to do the same with Interac, but each individual bank would still have to have a deal with Apple and support it.

 

[apoltix]

There are trademark terms tap and go and tap and pay? Didn't know that.

I referef to my german contactless Visa, which we sometimes call tap and pay. It is also accepted at places that take the Master Card contactless only. The staf said they dont take my card yet it worked. As long as the terminal acceps contactless cards my card works.

"Tap & Go" is apparently a MasterCard trademark in Canada, in the UK it's referred to just as "contactless". But of course, MasterCard also calls it PayPass, VISA calls it payWave, American Express calls it ExpressPay. They're all the same technology with different names.

However, just because they're all contactless technologies doesn't mean they're blindly interchangeable at any store that accepts "contactless" payments. They need to support the particular payment network, i.e. VISA, MasterCard and/or American Express. In your case, it appears the merchants you go to accept all three.

To add further to confusion, in the UK there are many merchants that accept American Express, accept contactless for VISA and MasterCard, but not American Express contactless. In addition to this, there are some who accept all three types of contactless as well as Apple Pay, but not American Express via Apple Pay... despite accepting American Express via contactless (not Apple Pay). McDonald's is one of those here in the UK and it's really annoying.

 

[hogo-fogo]

You do realize that the customer doesn't pay anything, don't you? From the customer side it costs the same as using a standard, plastic credit card--nothing.

I believe retailers have to pay. Further, I believe retailers won't "eat" that extra cost, this cost will be "passed" to us - customers. In the end, its us (customers) who pay apple by using pay apple.

I have already paid a lot (> $1000) for apple phone. apple made hefty profit on the phone I bought. I have no intention to pay apple any more, therefore no intention on using pay apple.

On other hand, I paid nothing for "a standard, plastic credit card". apple should offer "apple pay" without asking for extra cash for using it. It should have been made/available as a motivation to buy apple hardware instead of a phone from competition.