Become a MacRumors Supporter for $25/year with no ads, private forums, and more!

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
54,622
16,776



Apple is "working rapidly" to expand Apple Pay to additional countries in Asia and Europe, and there's increasing evidence and reports that suggest the service may launch in Italy and Germany in the near future.

apple-pay-italy-800x492.jpg

Apple recently updated its Apple Pay participating banks and card issuers in Asia-Pacific support document with a new image of Europe that has Italy highlighted. The change isn't visible on the United States or Europe versions of the page, suggesting that it may have been added to the Asia-Pacific page prematurely.

italy-apple-pay-grayscale-circled.jpg

MacRumors discovered a colored version of the image stored on Apple's servers that makes it easier to see Italy highlighted.

italy-apple-pay-blue.png

Apple's regional Italian website has listed Apple Pay as "coming soon" since March, so it's only a matter of time--WWDC?--before the payments service launches in the country. At launch, Apple Pay will work with Visa and MasterCard in Italy through participating banks UniCredit, Boon, and Carrefour Banca.

Meanwhile, German blog iPhone-Ticker reports that Apple Pay should launch in Germany in the fall or winter. As in some other countries, however, the negotiations between Apple and German banks allegedly continue to be challenging, likely as both sides struggle to reach an agreement over fees and control.

Last October, Germany was similarly highlighted on the Apple Pay availability map, but only for a brief period of time.

apple_pay_germany_map.jpg

Apple Pay launched in the United States in October 2014, and it has since expanded to 14 other countries and regions: Australia, Canada, China, France, Hong Kong, Ireland, Japan, New Zealand, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, Taiwan, and the United Kingdom. There was also a rumor that Belgium could be added this month.

Article Link: Apple Pay Negotiations Still Ongoing in Germany as Hints of Pending Italian Launch Increase
 

Glassed Silver

macrumors 68020
Mar 10, 2007
2,096
2,564
Kassel, Germany
Germany is a market with a lot of purchasing power and I expect Apple to try and establish a cut from the transactions as high as possible, meanwhile the banks have ZERO reason to rush an agreement as long as they are all very confident that Apple is asking too much I guess.

I mean, once they negotiate a rate I'm sure it will be harder to move away from it for banks especially.

Also, Germans are VERY reluctant to change banks, so their negotiation power in this is a lot higher than most other places.

Comments like "I changed banks to have Apple Pay" would be rather rare here save for the diehard Apple fans who read about Apple Pay every month on MR et all...

Meanwhile, a range of mobile payment options have long been available. Whilst less secure, less flexible or less convenient and integrated, many of them seem to cover that basic urge to pay with the phone just fine. Another hit to the negotiation power that Apple may have.

Glassed Silver:mac
 

Daku93

macrumors regular
Oct 29, 2010
235
253
There are many Germans already using Apple Pay with a Boon Account from France or Ireland. If you have any trouble with it, you can even call the German Wirecard support and they are more than willing to help you. (You can even enter a German address when creating your account and you will get a German IBAN for your account there) So, technically Apple Pay is kind of available in Germany already. You just have to download the App from the British, French or Irish App Store.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Morgenland

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,554
There are many Germans already using Apple Pay with a Boon Account from France or Ireland. If you have any trouble with it, you can even call the German Wirecard support and they are more than willing to help you. (You can even enter a German address when creating your account and you will get a German IBAN for your account there) So, technically Apple Pay is kind of available in Germany already. You just have to download the App from the British, French or Irish App Store.

Well, Apple Pay doesn't depend on the location of the shop where you use it, it depends on the location of your bank. Apple Pay with many US cards worked everywhere in the world where wireless cards were accepted. Obviously most Germans don't have a US card...
 

MLVC

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2015
944
2,060
Maastricht, The Netherlands
It needs to get a (Western) European rollout to be really successful, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, Denmark, Austria e.g. need to be added as well. I understand that if you live in Berlin you don't travel abroad that easily but NRW e.g., they get around. People who live near borders easily shop in one country and have dinner in the other one these days.
 

venusboy

macrumors regular
Mar 22, 2011
111
167
Only a handful of banks support ApplePay in France.

The big players (HSBC, BNP, SoGen) are yet to get on board. Must be commission related.
 

Four oF NINE

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2011
1,852
785
Hell's Kitchen
That Apple Pay is expanding to other nations is all well and good. However, I'm hoping there will be greater acceptance within nations such as the US to become more fully a go anywhere option.

Entirely too many vendors still do not accept Apple Pay.
 

Morgenland

macrumors 65816
May 28, 2009
1,190
1,239
Europe
I live in Germany and use Apple Pay with my iPhone in the most relevant stores that support NFC (e.g. ALDI) without any problems via Boon. A bit tricky to setup Boon, but Boon officially is supported since a long time in Germany. Additional cost: 1 Euro/month.

I confess: ApplePay and NFC-payment is rarely practiced in Germany, although most stores do support it, but nobody knows about it. I had and have a lot of fun with cashiers who do not know what is possible nowadays ;-)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mickfarrell

TheralSadurns

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2010
787
1,178
**** Germany and **** Germans with their backwards attitudes ALL THE ****ING TIME.

Whenever something... anything really... is NEW they immediately HATE it and dismiss it as nonsense. People who use such things are ridiculed on top of everything else.

Smartphones? HAHAHAHA NO ONE needs **** like this... SOOOO useless...
Meanwhile people in all other countries start using them.
5 years later... all of a sudden... smartphones are great in Germany too... and nobody even remembers dismissing them.

Same with tablets...

Non-cash payments...

Electric cars...

The list goes on and on.

I am so fed up with the people here...
 

otternonsense

Suspended
Jul 25, 2016
2,213
6,301
Berlin
You mean, by the time Apple Pay arrives in the Netherlands it won't even be relevant anymore.;):p

I moved to Berlin ;)
[doublepost=1494628050][/doublepost]
How so? I mean, I can see some QR code based system eventually coming out on top in the US (for a bunch of reasons) but I'm not sure if there's something like that in Germany.

QR code based system?? Is it 2013 again? :rolleyes:
 

tmiw

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2007
2,275
520
San Diego, CA
QR code based system?? Is it 2013 again? :rolleyes:

Considering how screwed up POS systems are in the US it's very likely it'd actually be easier for retailers to implement. Not to mention that it doesn't need a phone with NFC support.

Also, Alipay and WeChat Pay seem to do pretty well in China despite not using NFC.
 

Glassed Silver

macrumors 68020
Mar 10, 2007
2,096
2,564
Kassel, Germany
There are many Germans already using Apple Pay with a Boon Account from France or Ireland. If you have any trouble with it, you can even call the German Wirecard support and they are more than willing to help you. (You can even enter a German address when creating your account and you will get a German IBAN for your account there) So, technically Apple Pay is kind of available in Germany already. You just have to download the App from the British, French or Irish App Store.
Either it draws from my CC or my bank account, not gonna pre-paid the **** out of my payments.

Bust.

Also "many" is a flexible term, it doesn't really tickle any critical mass to tip any negotiations I guess.
If you have hard numbers that prove otherwise and I just live in a weird region go right ahead, I'd love to know that the lack of iPhone taps is odd and already normal anywhere else. :confused:

Glassed Silver:ios
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
Only a handful of banks support ApplePay in France.

The big players (HSBC, BNP, SoGen) are yet to get on board. Must be commission related.

Yep.

IIRC, contactless fees to the banks in many EU countries such as France are capped at around 0.22% of each transaction.

Therefore, giving Apple anywhere near the 0.15% of each transaction that they originally demanded and got in the US, is impossible for French banks. That would be 3/4 of what they get, and unlike Apple, the banks actually have related transaction expenses.

I think UK banks pay half what US banks pay, but it's still hard for banks to justify, considering that Apple itself does nothing during a contactless purchase. They're simply charging banks for access to their customers.
 
Last edited:

fermat-au

macrumors 6502
Dec 7, 2009
462
516
Australia
Germany is a market with a lot of purchasing power and I expect Apple to try and establish a cut from the transactions as high as possible, meanwhile the banks have ZERO reason to rush an agreement as long as they are all very confident that Apple is asking too much I guess.

I mean, once they negotiate a rate I'm sure it will be harder to move away from it for banks especially.

Also, Germans are VERY reluctant to change banks, so their negotiation power in this is a lot higher than most other places.

Comments like "I changed banks to have Apple Pay" would be rather rare here save for the diehard Apple fans who read about Apple Pay every month on MR et all...

Meanwhile, a range of mobile payment options have long been available. Whilst less secure, less flexible or less convenient and integrated, many of them seem to cover that basic urge to pay with the phone just fine. Another hit to the negotiation power that Apple may have.

Glassed Silver:mac
The situation in Germany sounds a little like that in Australia, but to a greater extent in Germany. Here in Australia almost everyone has an NFC card and almost every were accepts NFC payments, but ApplePay is only available from one of the big four banks. It is my understanding that the issue in negotiation with three of the big banks is the transaction fee. In Australia the transaction fee is usually paid by the retailer and many retailer have a $10 minimum to pay by card or they charge the consumer 20c or 50c.

Apple design ApplePay for the US where NFC payments were still new and "cool", the problem for them is that in many other parts of the world NFC is already implemented, so Apple is in a far weaker negotiating position in relation to transaction fees.

Another issue that puts Apple is a weaker negotiating position in Germany, is the iPhone is far less popular there than US, UK or AU.

kantar-march-2017.png

source.
 
Last edited:

Glassed Silver

macrumors 68020
Mar 10, 2007
2,096
2,564
Kassel, Germany
The situation in Germany sounds a little like that in Australia, but to a greater extent in Germany. Here in Australia almost everyone has an NFC card and almost every were accepts NFC payments, but ApplePay is only available from one of the big four banks. It is my understanding that the issue in negotiation with three of the big banks is the transaction fee. In Australia the transaction fee is usually paid by the retailer and many retailer have a $10 minimum to pay by card or they charge the consumer 20c or 50c.

Apple design ApplePay for the US where NFC payments were still new and "cool", the problem for them is that in many other parts of the world NFC is already implemented, so Apple is in a far weaker negotiating position in relation to transaction fees.

Another issue that puts Apple is a weaker negotiating position in Germany, is the iPhone is far less popular there than US, UK or AU.

kantar-march-2017.png

source.
Yes, very good addition, it's much the same with the transactions being paid by the retailer here too, just that they don't bill you more for choosing another payment method.
You'll find that with online shops sometimes, but offline I have yet to see that.

I think none of my cards, CC OR bank debit card are not NFC-capable.
I hardly ever use the function, but I think I've spotted the given logo on all of my cards.

To be frank though, another thing is that Germans are less into NFC. Apple Pay is much different from the "ever broadcasting" credit card (I know it's passively activated, but you get the drift) and hence more secure, but that urge to pay with a phone just isn't that big over here.

Oh and, Germans still pay a LOT using cash, second place is a bank account debit card, CC coming in distant third place.

Refer to the table on page 27:
https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion...in_germany_in_2014.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

Glassed Silver:mac
 
  • Like
Reactions: mickfarrell

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,228
3,284
I am still not reading anything about support for Maestro debit cards. If it works only with MasterCard and Visa cards anyway, then why bother? Moreover, not every country uses MasterCard or Visa debit cards either, meaning that only credit cards are supported.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mickfarrell

Robert.Walter

macrumors 68020
Jul 10, 2012
2,087
2,584
I am still not reading anything about support for Maestro debit cards. If it works only with MasterCard and Visa cards anyway, then why bother? Moreover, not every country uses MasterCard or Visa debit cards either, meaning that only credit cards are supported.
AFAIK, Maestro is the MasterCard debit card.
 

macpeach55

macrumors 6502
**** Germany and **** Germans with their backwards attitudes ALL THE ****ING TIME.

Whenever something... anything really... is NEW they immediately HATE it and dismiss it as nonsense. People who use such things are ridiculed on top of everything else.

Smartphones? HAHAHAHA NO ONE needs **** like this... SOOOO useless...
Meanwhile people in all other countries start using them.
5 years later... all of a sudden... smartphones are great in Germany too... and nobody even remembers dismissing them.

Same with tablets...

Non-cash payments...

Electric cars...

The list goes on and on.

I am so fed up with the people here...

Dear oh dear, what a Tantrum,
I travel all over Germany (and even into Bavaria when necessary) & all over the World for business, & like every other Country I have visited, older people don't like change, but otherwise people mostly embrace new technology. The only thing that usually holds them back having it is, in the poorer countries, they of course simply cannot afford the "latest thing". But they still want it.
Germany & Germans are just the same IMHO.
 

Paul Dawkins

Suspended
Dec 15, 2016
365
991
Stonehenge
Germany is a market with a lot of purchasing power and I expect Apple to try and establish a cut from the transactions as high as possible, meanwhile the banks have ZERO reason to rush an agreement as long as they are all very confident that Apple is asking too much I guess.

I mean, once they negotiate a rate I'm sure it will be harder to move away from it for banks especially.

Also, Germans are VERY reluctant to change banks, so their negotiation power in this is a lot higher than most other places.

Comments like "I changed banks to have Apple Pay" would be rather rare here save for the diehard Apple fans who read about Apple Pay every month on MR et all...

Meanwhile, a range of mobile payment options have long been available. Whilst less secure, less flexible or less convenient and integrated, many of them seem to cover that basic urge to pay with the phone just fine. Another hit to the negotiation power that Apple may have.

Glassed Silver:mac
I changed bank for Apple Pay in less than a second.
[doublepost=1494698219][/doublepost]
I live in Germany and use Apple Pay with my iPhone in the most relevant stores that support NFC (e.g. ALDI) without any problems via Boon. A bit tricky to setup Boon, but Boon officially is supported since a long time in Germany. Additional cost: 1 Euro/month.

I confess: ApplePay and NFC-payment is rarely practiced in Germany, although most stores do support it, but nobody knows about it. I had and have a lot of fun with cashiers who do not know what is possible nowadays ;-)

Boon from french app store? You have to top it up by bank transfer, because non french cards can't be used.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.