Apple Pay Now Available in 10 Countries Following Russia Launch

[mangonights]

Still waiting in scandinavia. How long has it been now? Two years?

Your fault for living in Europe. Come to the dark side....
[doublepost=1475584369][/doublepost]boggles the mind why they would trust the Russians with this. It'll be hacked to ****.

 

[xkam1x]

With the introduction of macOS 12.12

12.12?

 

[JGRE]

Nice to see Apple continuing to roll it out where the local banking system / govt allows them.

Here in the U.S. its gotten better around my area (have Jewel, Meijer for groceries, Wallgreens for drugstore so daily things are getting covered, but alot of stores still choose not to implement it).

Give theme some time and they will (have to) come around, or loose business.

 

[Hanzu Lao]

And tell me, why shouldn't they protect their business, Apple also has one goal here, to make money out of it, money that is normally collected by the banks.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike banks as much as many others but Apple is nothing better here.

Because Apple improves the experience and makes it more secure than it is now.

 

[jayducharme]

Scandinavian customers are perfectly happy using chip & pin so there's very little incentive for the banks to start sharing their transaction fees with Apple.

Chip & Pin isn't any more secure than swiping and entering a PIN. In fact, IMO it's less secure. Since my banks have rammed Chip & Pin down my throat, I've noticed that transactions under $20 generally don't require me to enter my PIN. So if someone steals my card, they could use it repeatedly for small transactions without penalty. For larger transactions, I have to enter my PIN, but how is that any more secure than before? Now the machine holds a card until the transaction is completed, increasing the likelihood it could get left behind.

 

[dschulian]

Your fault for living in Europe. Come to the dark side....
[doublepost=1475584369][/doublepost]boggles the mind why they would trust the Russians with this. It'll be hacked to ****.

If there are any security flaws it would be superb if a russian hacker would share it with the public.
Why are russian hackers always "the bad guys", while others not? Please double check your mindset, thanks.

b2t:

I would love to see this in Germany, but I think our banks are doing all they can to prevent Apple to join the market.

 

[JGRE]

And tell me, why shouldn't they protect their business, Apple also has one goal here, to make money out of it, money that is normally collected by the banks.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike banks as much as many others but Apple is nothing better here.

Don't agree, yes Apple wants our money, but at least they give you something back: a payment system where I do not need to carry a wallet full of plastic around all day. Bank apps are only starting to offer this, but this will only work in their local market. It will take the banks decades if ever, before they reach something were AP is today (Yep, even for AP still a long way to go).

 

[Hanzu Lao]

Stuck in last decade? On the contrary, Apple Pay is mostly useful in countries where they still use the ancient magnetic strip swipe. This is a significant security issue which Apple Pay solves. Scandinavian banks, oth, employ the chip & pin system (and has done so for at least a decade) which is much more secure and also more convenient than the magnetic strip which means the most important benefit of Apple Pay would make very little difference there.
Scandinavian customers are perfectly happy using chip & pin so there's very little incentive for the banks to start sharing their transaction fees with Apple.

Wow, really? Chip and pin requires a card and even you have NFC enabled card you still need a card. Apple Pay removes most of the card fraud. since banks don't do it for free neither should Apple. What kind of stupid argument is that?

 

[ttran88]

delete

 

[tlkudo]

Stuck in last decade? On the contrary, Apple Pay is mostly useful in countries where they still use the ancient magnetic strip swipe. This is a significant security issue which Apple Pay solves. Scandinavian banks, oth, employ the chip & pin system (and has done so for at least a decade) which is much more secure and also more convenient than the magnetic strip which means the most important benefit of Apple Pay would make very little difference there.
Scandinavian customers are perfectly happy using chip & pin so there's very little incentive for the banks to start sharing their transaction fees with Apple.

Chip and pin (or chip and signature as we do here in the states) is neither more secure and certainly not as convenient as magnetic strip.

First the obvious - with magnetic strips, you swipe and put the card away, takes about a second or two. With the chip, you use the same second or two to jam the card into the reader, then proceed to stare at the cashier for another 5-50 seconds waiting for the damn thing to start annoyingly beeping at you. Then another few seconds to put the card away. And that's on top of another few seconds wasted signing or entering your pin. All these few seconds are by necessity done in series with the chip, and it adds up to a lot more standing around in line for everyone. Yay!

While I agree that the time wasted would be worthwhile if it could eliminate fraud, alas this is just another act in the very tiresome security theater drama. Any payment system is only as secure as its weakest link. In the case of both magnetic strips and cards with chips, both allow "Card Not Present" transactions, AKA buying stuff on the internet. Without the card there, it doesn't make a lick of difference what hoops you make that sucker standing in front of the cashier jump through. All you're doing is shifting where the fraud is occurring.

Apple Pay actually IS more convenient and does offer a solution to the CNP problem now that Apple has a system for online purchases (which I haven't used yet...), but it needs to become more ubiquitous before it can start to have an impact. But don't give Apple too much credit - they're not in the game to make the world a more secure place, they're here to make money. Which is why the adoption rate has been so slow. Apple is inserting themselves in every transaction that occurs, taking a piece of the pie. It might only be a fraction of a penny out of that cup of coffee, but millions upon millions of fractions add up to serious money for Apple. I think someone in Apple watched a rerun of Office Space one night and said, "that's genius!" So banks understandably aren't interested in shifting their profits to Apple and stores don't want to spend capital to upgrade their card readers. Both of these are problems created by Apple in doing what public corps do - maximizing the 'shareholder value' contribution of the Apple Pay system.

Ugh.

 

[justperry]

Because Apple improves the experience and makes it more secure than it is now.

Depends where you are, most European countries don't need Apple Pay, we have Chip and Pin, also more and more businesses have contactless pay available, if I hold my card next to the POS I have paid, take note though, there is a limit and if you have to pay more you have to input your pin which is not much less convenient than having Apple Pay.

Forgot to say, where I am the process is extremely fast and reliable.

 

[Hanzu Lao]

Depends where you are, most European countries don't need Apple Pay, we have Chip and Pin, also more and more businesses have contactless pay available, if I hold my card next to the POS I have paid, take note though, there is a limit and if you have to pay more you have to input your pin which is not much less convenient than having Apple Pay.

Why all of you think that I'm a moron from a desert?
Chip and pin contactless card is a physical object that can be lost and abused by others. Banks track you purchases and sell that info to others then you find your PO box full of crap. It's very noticeable in Denmark.
Apple Pay is more secure in that respect and untraceable. No one will be able to use your phone to buy stuff even if you lose it.

 

[dwaltwhit]

Financial systems, merchants, people, and fiat money are all super complicated by themselves. Apple's Herculean task is to coordinate all these things to "just work." This will not happen over night. There is no one person or party that can flip a switch. I can't even get a group of people to decide on what kind of toppings to get on a pizza without hurting someones feelings, and thats with like 5 people that I know real well.

 

[loekf]

Chip and pin (or chip and signature as we do here in the states) is neither more secure and certainly not as convenient as magnetic strip.

You've clearly no idea what you are talking about. A pincode adds extra security in case your card is stolen.

Magnetic strip.. I guess you've never heard of "skimming" where people clone the contents of the magnetic strip
and get hold of your pin code via tiny cameras or modified keyboards in ATMs ? Is/was a big problem here in Europe. EMV practically solved that.

I'm glad the use of the magnetic strip in terminals and ATMs has been banned here in Europe (and most of Asia). Totally unsafe.

About Apple Pay. You can pay contactless with your ATM card here (via NFC embedded into the card), but thank goodness it's for small payments (max. 25 euros). It's not that dificult to think of man-in-the-middle attacks.
I wish the Dutch banks would stop inventing their own payment schemes with cellphones. All of them have their own app-based scheme and just Android, because Apple doesn't allow access to the secure element.

 

[Lennholm]

Wow, really? Chip and pin requires a card and even you have NFC enabled card you still need a card. Apple Pay removes most of the card fraud. since banks don't do it for free neither should Apple. What kind of stupid argument is that?

Certainly not an argument I ever made.

 

[chr1s60]

Apple Pay is still an unrealistic feature to me. Way too many major retailers still do not accept it, which means it is more out of my way to use Apple Pay when I actually happen to be in a retailer that takes it than it would be to just use cash or my normal card.
I do find it kind of funny though, I can't go to Target and use Apple Pay, but I can use it at our new vending machine at work.

 

[2457282]

Had to use cash at a farmer's market the other day. Ridiculous. Got given some of that silly plastic Mobopoly money in change, too.

Luckily, I was able to nip in to the nearby Costas to buy a flat white with my Apple Watch. Phew.

At my Farmer's Market, all vendors have switched to accepting CC through Square, except the lettuce lady. None of the squares have the NFC chip yet, but at least we have gotten past the cash only issue here. Apple should buy square and then immediately stop the production of the square dongle without NFC. At least in the US, square is huge for the small vendors (I see them everywhere these days) so simply switching them to all nfc without an option for non-nfc readers would be a huge deal.

 

[coolfactor]

I wonder how many people are running up credit card debt with these new easy-pay options growing in popularity?

 

[Robert.Walter]

And tell me, why shouldn't they protect their business, Apple also has one goal here, to make money out of it, money that is normally collected by the banks.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike banks as much as many others but Apple is nothing better here.

Actually, Apple is providing a quicker, more convenient and much safer and less intrusive service and at no additional cost to the consumer/ customer.

If wager they are much better than the banks in this regard.

 

[rippley5150]

I have yet to see any retailers in Beijing that accept Apple pay. WeChat wallet and Alipay are everywhere.

 

[JTToft]

Apple Pay is still an unrealistic feature to me. Way too many major retailers still do not accept it, which means it is more out of my way to use Apple Pay when I actually happen to be in a retailer that takes it than it would be to just use cash or my normal card.
I do find it kind of funny though, I can't go to Target and use Apple Pay, but I can use it at our new vending machine at work.

- Here in Scandinavia and most of Western Europe, Apple Pay support equals contactless payment support. Contactless NFC credit and debit cards are ubiquitous, as are NFC equipped terminals. Any place that has them also accepts Apple Pay, and nearly every store does.
We don't have the challenges that the US did when Apple Pay first launched. No additional infrastructure needs to be established here. All that needs to happen is Apple and the banks enabling it, and we'd be able to use Apple Pay in very nearly every store.

I've used it myself via somewhat of a hack that's now been disabled unfortunately in both Denmark, Germany, Italy, and Spain. All non-Apple Pay countries and all work perfectly. Apple and the banks just need to allow us to add our cards, and it's done.

 

[Robert.Walter]

You don't seem to understand that the delay isn't up to Apple. The banking system in each country will dictate it. If it was up to Apple, they would roll it out everywhere tomorrow

I fully understand the constraints and obstacles.

You missed the point of my comment.

Apple has stated a major market roll out goal. This explicitly excludes non major markets. And since you need a minor to have a major, it explicitly excludes smaller markets (smaller being open to interpretation, as Switzerland, for example, tho small has about 50% iPhone penetration - similar sized markets w/less penetration may not make cut.)
[doublepost=1475589058][/doublepost]

Stuck in last decade? On the contrary, Apple Pay is mostly useful in countries where they still use the ancient magnetic strip swipe. This is a significant security issue which Apple Pay solves. Scandinavian banks, oth, employ the chip & pin system (and has done so for at least a decade) which is much more secure and also more convenient than the magnetic strip which means the most important benefit of Apple Pay would make very little difference there.
Scandinavian customers are perfectly happy using chip & pin so there's very little incentive for the banks to start sharing their transaction fees with Apple.

The banks are not blocking AP because they think they have a bunch of happy customers.

 

[fjmontemar]

Spain please!

Spain is diferente.

 

[ineedamac]

Should read "available* in the United States." Sure it's here but it's far from being an accepted way to pay in most stores -- at the the ones I shop at least. When is the last time a major retailer signed up? Still waiting for Home Depot and the big grocery chains. Not having Target or CVS is a huge ding on ApplePay too.

Seems to me that the stores where I can use Apple Pay are fast food and fast casual dining. I rarely see a large box store that accepts Apple Pay.

 

[Robert.Walter]

I'm genuinely curious. Are you saying Germany's banking industry and infrastructure is ready to embrace and accept ApplePay, but for some reason Apple is unwilling to offer service?

German banking cartel likely blocking (for example look at Australian and Swiss banking cartels.)
[doublepost=1475590204][/doublepost]

I used my 6s (with an American credit card) at the German OBI.

For German nationals in the German market (like any local situation), the biggest issue is getting the local financial institutions to play ball (they want to block because of fees and seeing Apple as a new entrant and future competitor), the next issue is getting merchants that don't have fully compliant NFC terminals on board (unless merchants take specific steps to block, like Walmart, CVS and Rite Aid, if they are fully up to date in NFC they should be able to automatically support AP.)
[doublepost=1475590260][/doublepost]

Nice to see Apple continuing to roll it out where the local banking system / govt allows them.

Here in the U.S. its gotten better around my area (have Jewel, Meijer for groceries, Wallgreens for drugstore so daily things are getting covered, but alot of stores still choose not to implement it).

Meijer also accepts AP at the pump.