Apple Pay Predicted to Account for Half of Mobile Wallet Users by 2020

[mi7chy]

What’s worse, the 2 biggest online merchants, Walmart and Amazon, don’t accept Apple Pay either.

I’d like to see Apple partner with Walmart... give them special billing on Siri requests in exchange for accepting Apple Pay.

Won't happen. Any company that's in the business of selling quantity at low price will always drive to lower overhead cost which means avoiding high Apple Pay fees. And, when they're as large as Amazon and Walmart they can offer their own payment system which adds profit vs fees.

 

[randian]

...but not at stupid Ingle's markets in the Carolinas - or Publix for that matter.

Publix gets my hate for that. In the last year they replaced all their terminals in the stores near me but none of the new terminals have any visible indication they support NFC. As I recall the delta for an NFC terminal is small compared to the overall price of one. I assume they have no intention of replacing the terminals in a couple of years so it's obvious they're intentionally snubbing contactless payments.

 

[jayducharme]

I use it all the time now. Most stores in my town finally have begun accepting it. It's a heck of a lot faster than the card chip, and for many purchases I no longer have to enter a PIN number. And with ApplePay, I also haven't had to sign a receipt in about a year. I'm really happy with it and am glad it keeps growing.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

I've gone back and forth between Apple Pay and Samsung Pay.
My biggest issue is not really with either of them, but the lack of acceptance for contactless payments.
It's pathetic. Currently using Samsung Pay on my Note 8 as it has MST to work on the swipe/chip only terminals.

Still love the look on peoples faces when I hold my phone to the terminal and it works. It always starts with "we don't accept phone payments".

Of course, if Apple had this tech instead of Samsung it would be like a cure for cancer or the second coming by the fan boys

 

[mi7chy]

What I found bizarre when Apple Pay first launched were people staying they wouldn't shop in a store if they didn't offer Apple Pay.
Talk about fan boyism taken to extremes.

That's what happens when mindless bots/Apple employees/fanboyism take over common sense.

It's also potentially dangerous to frequently flash a $1K phone as you could end up as a crime statistics. So, on top of Apple Pay not working in a lot of places you should also avoid using it in questionable areas like gas stations, small stores, public stalls, bad neighborhoods, etc. Too much of a hassle and headache vs plastic that works 100% everywhere, has zero value to criminals and is freely replaceable.

 

[andybow]

I put my licence in a pocket in my phone case - problem solved!

In Australia not required to carry D Lic with you, and in South Australia they now have a digital version that can be installed in phone. Maybe if all countries took advantage of modern technology we could get rid of cards.
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That's what happens when mindless bots/Apple employees/fanboyism take over common sense.

It's also potentially dangerous to frequently flash a $1K phone as you could end up as a crime statistics. So, on top of Apple Pay not working in a lot of places you should also avoid using it in questionable areas like gas stations, small stores, public stalls, bad neighborhoods, etc. Too much of a hassle and headache vs plastic that works 100% everywhere, has zero value to criminals and is freely replaceable.

Interesting "Pay Wave" cards are targeted by Criminals in Australia during break-ins as they can spend up to limit of transactions at stores until cancelled. However iPhones aren't targeted anymore because of being useless to steal owing to enhanced security? ie Face and Fingerprint technology. So it seems sad to hear USA is still behind the times. Ps Apple Pay is accepted everywhere in Aust.
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Won't happen. Any company that's in the business of selling quantity at low price will always drive to lower overhead cost which means avoiding high Apple Pay fees. And, when they're as large as Amazon and Walmart they can offer their own payment system which adds profit vs fees.

I imagine it is more about tracking customers habits than just being cheaper. Apple Pay blocks their access to track customers. There choice , also I understand Apple Pay fees are charged to the Bank not the merchant so no difference. The Banks appear willing to pay the fee as almost zero fraud with Apple Pay identity based system compared to Pay Wave systems.

 

[MyMacintosh]

More accurate title would be half of establishments don't or won't take Apple Pay.

Also, never understood why people risk dropping a $1K phone and the added trial and error inconvenience just to make a payment with phone when it can be done simply and fool proof with plastic.

I use apple pay when I can. Using credit/debit never bothered me until I started using apple pay. Its not so much as the time difference between pulling out a card or not, but realizing how many people and how many places that card touches. It exchanges so many hands at different terminals, and im sure most people don't wipe their cards down with alcohol wipes or w.e. It just seemed gross handing people my cards after than. I just wish more places used Apple Pay. Most of the time I ask, I just get that confused stare and just "nvm" my way out of it.
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Interesting "Pay Wave" cards are targeted by Criminals in Australia during break-ins as they can spend up to limit of transactions at stores until cancelled. However iPhones aren't targeted anymore because of being useless to steal owing to enhanced security? ie Face and Fingerprint technology. So it seems sad to hear USA is still behind the times. Ps Apple Pay is accepted everywhere in Aust.

Actually cards are targeted more in these terms. Sure stealing and selling and iPhone is probably more lucrative, but "cracking cards" is a thing in the US. So the irony is cards might be targeted more so than the phone in this case.

 

[robbyx]

That's mostly true, but there's always the risk of personal data being leaked alongside your CC, not to mention the hassle of having to contact CC companies for replacements.

I think you’re reaching. Whenever my card is compromised, the bank has almost always shut down the fraud and notified me before I even realized it had happened. In the 30 years I’ve had credit cards, I’ve maybe had to report around five fraudulent charges. Every other time, and there have been many, the bank has notified me.

As for leaking other info, this only happens in a hack. And Apple Pay (probably) doesn’t help you there. A lot of credit card fraud was the result of people simply writing down numbers. How often do we hand our cards to people? A waiter. A store clerk. They write it down and use it later. But that’s all the info they got. Chips have made it harder to do that. If an e-commerce site where you saved credit card info was hacked, sure, other info could be obtained that way. But Apple Pay wouldn’t be a factor here (unless, of course, the site uses Apple Pay and therefore doesn’t store any credit card info for you, which I admit is a clear advantage).

Don’t get me wrong, I think Apple Pay is cool but I also think the security “features” are much ado about (almost) nothing. The problem is adoption. It only makes sense to use Apple Pay when I can rely on it completely. Otherwise I’ll just use my credit card because I know that works everywhere.

 

[Karma*Police]

Won't happen. Any company that's in the business of selling quantity at low price will always drive to lower overhead cost which means avoiding high Apple Pay fees. And, when they're as large as Amazon and Walmart they can offer their own payment system which adds profit vs fees.

Where are you getting the high Apple Pay fees from? There’s zero cost to the merchant and the cost to the credit card issuing bank is .015% if I remember correctly; and that’s a bargain considering liability is zero whereas using the card itself poses far greater risk.

 

[mi7chy]

I use apple pay when I can. Using credit/debit never bothered me until I started using apple pay. Its not so much as the time difference between pulling out a card or not, but realizing how many people and how many places that card touches. It exchanges so many hands at different terminals, and im sure most people don't wipe their cards down with alcohol wipes or w.e. It just seemed gross handing people my cards after than. I just wish more places used Apple Pay. Most of the time I ask, I just get that confused stare and just "nvm" my way out of it.

Your phone is ten times dirtier than a toilet seat.

http://time.com/4908654/cell-phone-bacteria/

How hard is it to wash your phone thoroughly without water damage vs plastic card?

Another issue is only places like McDonald's accept Apple Pay but fine dining restaurants like Mastro's, Morton's, etc. don't list it as accepted payment.

 

[tmiw]

Where are you getting the high Apple Pay fees from? There’s zero cost to the merchant and the cost to the credit card issuing bank is .015% if I remember correctly; and that’s a bargain considering liability is zero whereas using the card itself poses far greater risk.

In theory. In reality, since merchants tend to run NFC transactions over Visa/MC, they could potentially pay significantly more to run debit cards with Apple Pay than if said cards were inserted and a PIN entered. Of course, that's money they'd be paying their merchant processors and not Apple, but still.

(Speaking from a US perspective. It's likely not that way in most other places.)

 

[fairuz]

Sounds like they didn't consider Venmo, though. I'm rooting for it to win because it's the simplest, requiring no special hardware and not costing the store anything. Low overhead means more focus on what matters, which is why I aim for stores that don't accept credit card or NFC payments.

Sadly, I've only ever seen Venmo used in small shops, person-to-person transactions like with barbers, and unofficial things like college students selling donuts for fundraising. Most stores looking to cheap out are just cash-only.

Btw, WeChat is THE payment method in China, and it's similar to Venmo. They deliberately avoided both credit cards and NFC over there. And funny enough, almost every cash-only store I see here is run by Chinese immigrants.

How did the vending machine know you were using Apple Pay?

Correct me if I’m wrong but... as far as the contactless reader is concerned, Apple Pay appears to be just another contactless card.

Most readers can’t distinguish between a contactless card or a mobile with nfc.

No, each payment method has its own protocol, so it can tell. The only thing they share is the NFC transport.

Oh, I agree it is more secure, but by how much, the pin and chip isn't much less secure, we've been using it for ages in Europe, yes, there are scams but you as a customer won't lose anything, it's the risk of the banks, no risk for us, the customer.

Consumers end up paying for that in part. Better security helps everyone.
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More accurate title would be half of establishments don't or won't take Apple Pay.

Also, never understood why people risk dropping a $1K phone and the added trial and error inconvenience just to make a payment with phone when it can be done simply and fool proof with plastic.

Plus, Amazon Prime Whole Foods hassle free method without check-out process makes Apple Pay obsolete. Shopping will be as convenient as walking into your kitchen and walking out with food/drinks.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/15/a...ores-are-coming-to-chicago-and-san-francisco/

I agree, it's definitely not easier, at least in its current state where it's always unsure whether it'll work. I didn't even bother setting it up because why? And yes, I'd definitely drop my phone at least once as a result of using Apple Pay.

 

[Shanghaichica]

More accurate title would be half of establishments don't or won't take Apple Pay.

Also, never understood why people risk dropping a $1K phone and the added trial and error inconvenience just to make a payment with phone when it can be done simply and fool proof with plastic.

Plus, Amazon Prime Whole Foods hassle free method without check-out process makes Apple Pay obsolete. Shopping will be as convenient as walking into your kitchen and walking out with food/drinks.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/15/a...ores-are-coming-to-chicago-and-san-francisco/

I work in London UK, I exclusively use Apple Pay for everything. Tube or bus ticket (oyester) to London, morning coffee, lunch at a restaurant or grab something from the supermarket, buy drinks or sweets from the office vending machine, purchase office stationary and other items in the shopping centre, tube/bus home again. All using Apple Pay, havent touched a card or cash for weeks now.

Don’t miss it one bit.

It’s more unusual to find a place that doesn’t support contactless payments in London!

I really don’t use my debit card much either. At one point last year I wanted to buy something online so needed to use my card. Went to look for my card and couldn’t find it. I couldn’t even remember the last time I’d used the card and couldn’t find it. In the end I had to contact my bank and have then cancel the old card and issue a new one.

 

[haganah]

Most people don't find Apple Pay (or any mobile pay) useful. I have yet to see someone pay with the phone (for the first time in my life) for anything and I live in one of the big US metro areas (in the suburbs though - so no car-less students here).

I have seen it used extensively in NYC, Chicago and San Francisco.

I use it because I reach for my phone, don't dig through a wallet, and it's quicker. And yeah a lot of times I don't carry a full wallet / ID. And I am very far from a car-less student. No idea why others use it but given that people use phones for photos, messaging, games, etc. I don't see why they wouldn't want to add more functionality to their phone. Also digital payments in China is like a whole new level and indicative of where we are headed I think.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I've gone back and forth between Apple Pay and Samsung Pay.
My biggest issue is not really with either of them, but the lack of acceptance for contactless payments.
It's pathetic. Currently using Samsung Pay on my Note 8 as it has MST to work on the swipe/chip only terminals.

Still love the look on peoples faces when I hold my phone to the terminal and it works. It always starts with "we don't accept phone payments".

We don’t use MST in the Uk so Samsung pay has no advantage over Apple Pay. Apple Pay, Android pay and Samsung pay can all be used at the same places, those that accept contactless payments.

The reasons I choose to use Apple Pay are:

It came to the UK first. Apple was in the UK for at least a year before android pay came. Samsung pay came about another year after that.

My bank supports all three but in the UK Apple Pay is supported by the majority of banks. Android and Samsung pay aren’t supported by that many banks.

Apple Pay worked on the Apple Watch from day one. It took a few years before it became available on Samsung watches and is only available on a limited number of wear watches. I use Apple Pay exclusively on my Apple Watch in shops.

I also don’t carry an android phone all year round. Only usually have one for a few months a year. My iPhone is my daily driver.
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That's what happens when mindless bots/Apple employees/fanboyism take over common sense.

It's also potentially dangerous to frequently flash a $1K phone as you could end up as a crime statistics. So, on top of Apple Pay not working in a lot of places you should also avoid using it in questionable areas like gas stations, small stores, public stalls, bad neighborhoods, etc. Too much of a hassle and headache vs plastic that works 100% everywhere, has zero value to criminals and is freely replaceable.

I don’t ever have to get my phone out to use Apple Pay or get anything out. I use my Apple Watch which is on my wrist. My phone stays in my bag.

 

[fairuz]

What’s worse, the 2 biggest online merchants, Walmart and Amazon, don’t accept Apple Pay either.

I’d like to see Apple partner with Walmart... give them special billing on Siri requests in exchange for accepting Apple Pay. This would create a frictionless voice activated ecommerce experience. Apple users will also save a lot of money in the process and Walmart will gain access to Apple’s coveted demographics... Win win.

I think when a retailer has special access to payment methods, that's when the anti-competition lawsuits come rolling in. As they should. I shop at big chains when they provide benefit over the small stores, but I don't want small stores being disadvantaged just because of the payment method.
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That's what happens when mindless bots/Apple employees/fanboyism take over common sense.

It's also potentially dangerous to frequently flash a $1K phone as you could end up as a crime statistics. So, on top of Apple Pay not working in a lot of places you should also avoid using it in questionable areas like gas stations, small stores, public stalls, bad neighborhoods, etc. Too much of a hassle and headache vs plastic that works 100% everywhere, has zero value to criminals and is freely replaceable.

The credit card, which is useful until cancelled, is more useful to criminals than an iPhone rendered useless by Activation Lock. https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/a...s-to-big-drops-in-smartphone-theft-worldwide/
Wonder if criminals have access to GreyKey boxes yet...

 

[ErikGrim]

All using Apple Pay, havent touched a card or cash for weeks now.

Same, except substitute weeks with years.

And retail staff still acts like it's a miracle every time I pay with my watch.

 

[AnderMZ]

I wonder if Apple gets any money from the transaction fees businesses must pay to the big card companies, such as VISA and MasterCard, from each Apple Pay use. If that's the case, eventually it will be a major source of revenue for Apple.

As a matter of fact, it does. That is one of the reasons it hasn't spread as fast as you would expect, given the contactless technology is available in many countries nowadays.

Apple must come to an agreement with the issuer bank in order for the bank to allow their cards to be used with Apple Pay. However, in contrast with Samsung Pay, Apple charges a small % fee of every transaction made through their system. That reduces the bank's cut and, in some scenarios, makes the business case of using ApplePay not enticing for the bank.

Source: I work at a big bank

 

[mi7chy]

The credit card, which is useful until cancelled, is more useful to criminals than an iPhone rendered useless by Activation Lock. https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/a...s-to-big-drops-in-smartphone-theft-worldwide/

Look at from both the perspective of loss to the user and gain to the criminal(s).

Apple Pay user loss:
- $1K phone
- Communication void until user comes up with another $1K to replace phone
- Unbacked up data, pictures, contacts, etc.
- Hospital bill from getting bonked on the head or worse

Apple Pay criminal gain:
- Low tier criminal gains quick cash selling to uninformed buyer not knowing it's iCloud locked or for really cheap
- Mid tier criminal profits more from parting out the phone and selling as individual parts
- High tier criminal profits most from using specialized equipment to change device ID to iCloud unlock and reselling the phone

Plastic card user loss:
- $0
- Free replacement
- No data loss
- Wait a day or two to get ~$5 expedited card replacement

Plastic card criminal gain:
- Common criminal never rob someone in public to demand their plastic and usually demand cash or property
- Can't use at gas station without zip code
- Can't use at most places without valid ID
- Can't use online to purchase and ship to unverified address
- Only minor gain is maybe one or two fraudulent low dollar purchases without valid ID until bank flags and freezes questionable back to back purchases but the risk to criminal is he gets caught on surveillance video or Face ID database which eventually leads to jail time

So, smart users still prefer plastic. Not so smart users flash their $1K phone to use Apple Pay that most places still don't take and make themselves a target for low level criminals.

 

[BvizioN]

I was extremely skeptical of Apple Pay when it first came out. I'm in the UK with contactless so I thought it was mainly to benefit US consumers where they had to sign cheques and do all these antiquated payment methods we'd got rid of decades ago.

It's essentially the same process, I told myself - get out your card and put it on the reader. Get out your phone and put it on the reader. What's the difference?

Well one iPhone X 9 months later and I don't carry my wallet with me any more. There's something really great and secure about Apple Pay. It's nice to have everything in one place with digital receipts when you make payments. Also there's no payment limit like there are with debit cards, unless you decide to shop at Tesco and they have a 30 pound limit on all contactless payments.

Yeah, I'm definitely not surprised at this news. In fact I could definitely see it being much higher than 50% in a couple of years. Apple Pay slays.

Same here. And it is even better on the Apple watch. Being able to have nothing in your pockets, not even the phone and still be able to purchase stuff is great. And luckily for us, contactless terminals are everywhere here in UK.

 

[bollman]

Not at all. I'm finding that I use cash less and less (just at my corner shop for milk and some vendors at a farmers market) but everywhere else I'm using ApplePay through my watch. Debit/credit cards? Nope they don't even come out any more and I'm happy not to be using them.

Cash? Wow! That's old school.
There are actually quite a lot of stores where cash is not accepted as payment. Also, most (sic!) banks won't touch cash at all, would you believe that, huh?
It's expensive to deposit cash for merchants so if they can avoid it, they will. Accepting cards means bank charges and charges to the company that runs the card terminals. So, Swish it is.
We recently spent a bazillion on swapping out all notes and coins, but I suspect they won't have to print another batch since cash is totally dead now.
The only people left using cash are more or less criminals and really old people. And the old people are dying off (since noone will accept their cash as payment). I bet, in the near future, anyone in posession of cash will be taken in for questioning by the police.

 

[skys15]

If major credit card companies were actually cared for aiming to simplify the checkout process they wouldn’t allow companies like Walmart, Target, and others not to allow Apple Pay. Quite frustrating that they still don’t allow it. Some dumb power trip game I guess?I’ve set up both Walmart and Target to pay on their apps and it’s the crappiest product and experience I’ve used as far as payments go.

 

[Xiroteus]

I was curious and looked and basically nowhere I shop takes it. Target, Walmart, Fred Meyer, Safeway, Winco, Home Depot, Lowes and so forth. I looked at the list and maybe two stores I may have been in over the last few years. This type of payment system is more useful if every location uses it.

Plus it's just faster taking out my card.

im sure most people don't wipe their cards down with alcohol wipes or w.e.

Have to wipe those cards and phone down often.......yep, I'm serious. I do see you used most as some people may be weird enough to make that a habit.

 

[Shanghaichica]

As a matter of fact, it does. That is one of the reasons it hasn't spread as fast as you would expect, given the contactless technology is available in many countries nowadays.

Apple must come to an agreement with the issuer bank in order for the bank to allow their cards to be used with Apple Pay. However, in contrast with Samsung Pay, Apple charges a small % fee of every transaction made through their system. That reduces the bank's cut and, in some scenarios, makes the business case of using ApplePay not enticing for the bank.

Source: I work at a big bank

That’s interesting because Apple Pay is supported by the majority of the banks in the Uk. Some dug their heels in at the start but they all caved in and adopted Apple Pay. They seem to have been very resistant to get on board with android or Samsung pay. Samsung pay is only supported by about 3 major banks.

 

[mi7chy]

I don’t ever have to get my phone out to use Apple Pay or get anything out. I use my Apple Watch which is on my wrist. My phone stays in my bag.

Which is even worse because Apple Watch has shorter battery life and worse reception than phones or it happens to separate. Compared to plastic card use that's unaffected by battery life or reception and is significantly more durable. I can live without my phone for communication but not without the ability to buy gas, food or get emergency cash. Critical things are better left simple and reliable.