Apple Pay Predicted to Account for Half of Mobile Wallet Users by 2020

[Gilligan's last elephant]

That’s interesting because Apple Pay is supported by the majority of the banks in the Uk. Some dug their heels in at the start but they all caved in and adopted Apple Pay. They seem to have been very resistant to get on board with android or Samsung pay. Samsung pay is only supported by about 3 major banks.

Edit : I noticed you were referring to Samsung Pay after posting.
Here is a list of UK banks using Google Pay
Supported banks

• AIB GB
• Amex
• Bank of Scotland
• B Bank
• Clydesdale Bank
• The Co-operative Bank
• The Cumberland
• first direct
• First Trust Bank
• Halifax
• HSBC
• Isle of Man Bank
• John Lewis
• Lloyds
• M&S Bank
• MBNA
• Monzo
• Nationwide
• NatWest
• Royal Bank of Scotland
• Santander
• smile
• Starling Bank
• TSB
• Ulster Bank
• Yorkshire Bank

 

[Shanghaichica]

Which is even worse because Apple Watch has shorter battery life and worse reception than phones or it happens to separate. Compared to plastic card use that's unaffected by battery life or reception and is significantly more durable. I can live without my phone for communication but not without the ability to buy gas, food or get emergency cash. Critical things are better left simple and reliable.

Hey even better I think I should just keep it as simple as possible and just take all my money out of the bank and carry it all around with me. Then I’ll never be without money in case there is an emergency you know.
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Here is a list of UK banks using Google Pay
Supported banks

• AIB GB
• Amex
• Bank of Scotland
• B Bank
• Clydesdale Bank
• The Co-operative Bank
• The Cumberland
• first direct
• First Trust Bank
• Halifax
• HSBC
• Isle of Man Bank
• John Lewis
• Lloyds
• M&S Bank
• MBNA
• Monzo
• Nationwide
• NatWest
• Royal Bank of Scotland
• Santander
• smile
• Starling Bank
• TSB
• Ulster Bank
• Yorkshire Bank

Barclays dug their heels in over Apple Pay and only supported it after a year. Then when android pay came out they said they wouldn’t support it and were making their own app for mobile payments.


Banks supporting Samsung pay ( a much smaller list):

- American Express
- Danske Bank
- Engage
- First Direct
- HSBC
- John Lewis Finance
- M&S Bank
- Nationwide Building Society
- Santander
- Starling Bank
- The Co-operative Bank

Luckily for me I bank with Nationwide which is supported by Apple Pay, Android and Samsung pay. As they are all accepted at the same places it doesn’t matter to me which one I use. It’s more about what phone/watch I have.

 

[Abazigal]

Which is even worse because Apple Watch has shorter battery life and worse reception than phones or it happens to separate. Compared to plastic card use that's unaffected by battery life or reception and is significantly more durable. I can live without my phone for communication but not without the ability to buy gas, food or get emergency cash. Critical things are better left simple and reliable.

All I can say is that you really seem to be grasping at straws here. On any normal day, people will have more than enough juice in their phones and watches to last a day (or at least, not put themselves in a position to be stuck with a dead phone).

I have been paying for purchases using Apple Pay every opportunity I get ever since it became available here in Singapore, and I have no intention of stopping anytime soon. Be it groceries, eating out, small purchases, if a shop supports Apple Pay, I am using it.

 

[mi7chy]

Hey even better I think I should just keep it as simple as possible and just take all my money out of the bank and carry it all around with me. Then I’ll never be without money in case there is an emergency you know.

Expected better than knee jerk response. Why carry around a hoard of cash and be a target for criminals? Ranking of payment options based on key factors such as store acceptance, reliability, durability, convenience, risk of being a target for criminals, up front cost, replacement cost, etc.

#1 plastic
#2 backup plastic
#3 cash
#4 Samsung Pay with MST > Apple Pay
#5 phone payment > watch payment (until battery life and reception improve drastically)

 

[Abazigal]

Expected better than knee jerk response. Why carry around a hoard of cash and be a target for criminals? Ranking of payment options based on key factors such as store acceptance, reliability, durability, convenience, risk of being a target for criminals, up front cost, replacement cost, etc.

#1 plastic
#2 backup plastic
#3 cash
#4 Samsung Pay with MST > Apple Pay
#5 phone payment > watch payment (until battery life and reception improve drastically)

Here’s my current situation.

Store acceptance - any store which accepts visa paywave accepts Apple Pay.

Reliability - no issues with Apple Pay thus far.

Durability - my phone or watch don’t even make contact with the payment interface, so I don’t see what durability issues there may be.

Risk - singapore is a very safe country, and iOS devices are pretty commonplace, so the odds of me being a target of criminals from waving my iPhone around is negligible. It’s just not the ostentatious display of opulence you are making it out to be.

Battery life - not unwarranted, but simply hasn’t been a concern for me these past few years.

Convenience - credit card < phone < watch. No contest.

There is virtually no reason for me to not use my phone or watch to pay over my cards.

 

[Recognition]

Which is even worse because Apple Watch has shorter battery life and worse reception than phones or it happens to separate. Compared to plastic card use that's unaffected by battery life or reception and is significantly more durable. I can live without my phone for communication but not without the ability to buy gas, food or get emergency cash. Critical things are better left simple and reliable.

Why do you keep mentioning reception? You don’t need any reception to use Apple Pay, it will work with the device in airplane mode.

 

[Dingster101]

Cash? Wow! That's old school.
There are actually quite a lot of stores where cash is not accepted as payment. Also, most (sic!) banks won't touch cash at all, would you believe that, huh?
It's expensive to deposit cash for merchants so if they can avoid it, they will. Accepting cards means bank charges and charges to the company that runs the card terminals. So, Swish it is.
We recently spent a bazillion on swapping out all notes and coins, but I suspect they won't have to print another batch since cash is totally dead now.
The only people left using cash are more or less criminals and really old people. And the old people are dying off (since noone will accept their cash as payment). I bet, in the near future, anyone in posession of cash will be taken in for questioning by the police.

What? Where do you live?!

 

[justperry]

Yes because I have to go into my bag,find my purse, take it out, find the card then put the card into the machine and then put my pin in. Then take the card out and put it back in my purse which goes back in my bag.

With Apple Pay all I have to do is double tap on my Apple Watch and hold it up to the reader and bam I’m done.

Seems like you don't understand, I take my iPhone out of my pocket even before I have to pay, tap the phone with the card inside the pocket on the POS, that's it, no need to take my card out.
And I already said before to another poster "Fair enough, you've got a point' he has a Applewatch too, but even then, it's not faster then me tapping my iPhone on the POS with the card INSIDE the pocket.

 

[Heineken]

Expected better than knee jerk response. Why carry around a hoard of cash and be a target for criminals? Ranking of payment options based on key factors such as store acceptance, reliability, durability, convenience, risk of being a target for criminals, up front cost, replacement cost, etc.

#1 plastic
#2 backup plastic
#3 cash
#4 Samsung Pay with MST > Apple Pay
#5 phone payment > watch payment (until battery life and reception improve drastically)

Well that's a bit paranoid approach. Why not keep everything in gold and diamonds in case government falls?

 

[robbyx]

Here’s my current situation.

Store acceptance - any store which accepts visa paywave accepts Apple Pay.

Reliability - no issues with Apple Pay thus far.

Durability - my phone or watch don’t even make contact with the payment interface, so I don’t see what durability issues there may be.

Risk - singapore is a very safe country, and iOS devices are pretty commonplace, so the odds of me being a target of criminals from waving my iPhone around is negligible. It’s just not the ostentatious display of opulence you are making it out to be.

Battery life - not unwarranted, but simply hasn’t been a concern for me these past few years.

Convenience - credit card < phone < watch. No contest.

There is virtually no reason for me to not use my phone or watch to pay over my cards.

Risk is a silly thing to focus on. People who like Apple Pay say that it reduces the risk of one’s credit card number being compromised. While true, it’s also pretty meaningless considering how effectively banks handle fraud these days. On the other hand, those who don’t like Apple Pay say that it’s risky to flash a cell phone when paying. What a laugh. Everyone has a smartphone these days, including the criminals. No one is going to follow you out of Whole Foods and mug you in the parking lot for your iPhone because you used Apple Pay.

Apple Pay just isn’t as convenient as credit cards from my perspective, so I don’t use it. It sounds like you have pretty good support for it where you live. That’s not the case here. I’d say 30% of stores I visit support it. I can’t think of a single gas pump that supports it. No sit-down restaurants support it. What’s the advantage to a payment method with so many unknowns? It’s just easier to go for the payment method you know will always work.

There are also plenty of times when I don’t have my phone on me. I have a Watch but only wear it to the gym for tracking workouts. I hate watches and the Apple Watch hasn’t changed my opinion. But it’s a great fitness tracker. I always leave my phone in the car when I go out to eat. There’s nothing worse than rude people on their cell phones at dinner. But as I said earlier, I’ve never been to a sit-down restaurant that takes Apple Pay anyway.

I think it’s probably easier to the ditch the wallet if you live in a big city and don’t drive a car. Otherwise I’d say you’re lucky if you can use Apple Pay 50% of the time. In that case I simply find it too much of a bother to determine who accepts it and who doesn’t when there’s no real advantage to using it in the first place. It is definitely a convenient way to pay, but only if there’s massive support, which I simply don’t see where I live.

 

[MyMacintosh]

Your phone is ten times dirtier than a toilet seat.

http://time.com/4908654/cell-phone-bacteria/

How hard is it to wash your phone thoroughly without water damage vs plastic card?

Another issue is only places like McDonald's accept Apple Pay but fine dining restaurants like Mastro's, Morton's, etc. don't list it as accepted payment.

I guess my point is i'd rather touch my phone which probably has mine and my family's microbiota, than constantly gathering a bunch of random stranger's. Maybe my view is skewed. I work in a retail pharmacy and seeing the number of sick people that cough or sneeze into their hands then hand you their credit debit card...

 

[dontwalkhand]

I've gone back and forth between Apple Pay and Samsung Pay.
My biggest issue is not really with either of them, but the lack of acceptance for contactless payments.
It's pathetic. Currently using Samsung Pay on my Note 8 as it has MST to work on the swipe/chip only terminals.

Still love the look on peoples faces when I hold my phone to the terminal and it works. It always starts with "we don't accept phone payments".

I see that you live in Phoenix. I live in Phoenix, and have no problems at most places with contactless payments. Most places have it, if they accept credit cards, with the exception of the large stores like Target and Walmart. I find myself using Apple Pay about 85% of my day, sometimes more, sometimes less. Obviously if you eat at at a lot of restaurants, they dont have contactless or make it very difficult to use. But most stores have it and I find myself using it pretty much everywhere I go. In some instances I had to instruct the cashier how to run it (mom and pop stores), but that pays off in the long run, because next time you visit that mom and pop store, they know how to run it.

Hell, I just visited an HonorHealth hospital to see someone, and even the hospital cafeteria took Apple Pay.
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I guess my point is i'd rather touch my phone which probably has mine and my family's microbiota, than constantly gathering a bunch of random stranger's. Maybe my view is skewed. I work in a retail pharmacy and seeing the number of sick people that cough or sneeze into their hands then hand you their credit debit card...

Most pharmacies (and stores in general) have "insert the card yourself" card readers that face the customer. So if you're touching other peoples cards, you're doing it wrong. Of course the drive through is different.
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What? Where do you live?!

Well I live in the US and cash still exists here, but nobody seems to use it. Cards are defacto. In fact some restaurants stopped taking cash altogether (Looking at you Sweet Greens, but NO APPLE PAY!), and hotels and rental cars don't allow cash either. When I worked at Walmart, I would see 25 card customers before seeing my first cash customer, and the cash customer wanted cash back from a debit card, not even paying me with cash. Then when I finally got a cash customer, there was no change left thanks to all the cash-back people who emptied out my drawer with cash-back from a debit card.

So why do we still have sucky contactless card acceptance rates in large cities like San Francisco? GAHH!
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If major credit card companies were actually cared for aiming to simplify the checkout process they wouldn’t allow companies like Walmart, Target, and others not to allow Apple Pay. Quite frustrating that they still don’t allow it. Some dumb power trip game I guess?I’ve set up both Walmart and Target to pay on their apps and it’s the crappiest product and experience I’ve used as far as payments go.

The Walmart one isnt bad but the Target one is terrible, and only works with the REDCard.

 

[rjohnstone]

I see that you live in Phoenix. I live in Phoenix, and have no problems at most places with contactless payments. Most places have it, if they accept credit cards, with the exception of the large stores like Target and Walmart. I find myself using Apple Pay about 85% of my day, sometimes more, sometimes less. Obviously if you eat at at a lot of restaurants, they dont have contactless or make it very difficult to use. But most stores have it and I find myself using it pretty much everywhere I go. In some instances I had to instruct the cashier how to run it (mom and pop stores), but that pays off in the long run, because next time you visit that mom and pop store, they know how to run it.

Hell, I just visited an HonorHealth hospital to see someone, and even the hospital cafeteria took Apple Pay.

As you've stated, places like Walmart and Target don't accept Apple Pay, neither does CVS, and Home Depot (I visit a lot). Then there's a host of mom & Pop shops I visit.
Samsung Pay (via MST) has worked flawlessly at all of the above, with the exception of a few small businesses that have a card processor that explicitly block it.
In short, I use what works best for me, as you use what works best for you. I think having a choice is a great thing.

 

[fairuz]

Plastic card criminal gain:
- Common criminal never rob someone in public to demand their plastic and usually demand cash or property
- Can't use at gas station without zip code
- Can't use at most places without valid ID
- Can't use online to purchase and ship to unverified address
- Only minor gain is maybe one or two fraudulent low dollar purchases without valid ID until bank flags and freezes questionable back to back purchases but the risk to criminal is he gets caught on surveillance video or Face ID database which eventually leads to jail time

You can definitely get away with a lot more with a stolen CC. If you've taken someone's wallet, you've gotten a driver's license that has most likely the entire address for the CC. Then you get to use it online. I don't know what you mean by unverified addresses; I've never had to prove my address when shopping online.

Even if you don't have the address, most physical stores let you purchase stuff without entering anything nowadays, or at worst you have to provide a signature that they definitely won't check. Surveillance video sucks. You just wear a hood and glasses, and they have no idea who you are.

Then there's the third way, electronic hacking. I don't know how it works, maybe RFID readers. My parents have had their CC info stolen many times and used for big purchases. Criminals got thousands of dollars. My parents didn't lose anything, luckily, but it was still a hassle and waste of time.

Any way they do it, they can easily get a lot more than they'd get selling the iPhone. iPhone X from a sketchy dealer is on average going to earn them what, $400? And they risk getting caught if they want to sell that online.

(btw all uses of "you" don't refer to either of us but the theoretical criminal)

 

[Karma*Police]

In theory. In reality, since merchants tend to run NFC transactions over Visa/MC, they could potentially pay significantly more to run debit cards with Apple Pay than if said cards were inserted and a PIN entered. Of course, that's money they'd be paying their merchant processors and not Apple, but still.

(Speaking from a US perspective. It's likely not that way in most other places.)

I’m not following... Apple Pay isn’t tied to debit cards. There is zero financial impact to the merchant... whether a customer uses Apple Pay tied to his credit card or inserted the same cc into a machine and entered a PIN, it won’t make a difference.

The only difference is, the merchant doesn’t get the customer cc info, and that’s why big retailers are reticent to accept Apple Pay.
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I think when a retailer has special access to payment methods, that's when the anti-competition lawsuits come rolling in. As they should. I shop at big chains when they provide benefit over the small stores, but I don't want small stores being disadvantaged just because of the payment method.

As a former small business owner and a son of a small business owner, I always support small businesses whenever I can.

That said, payment methods are the least of small businesses’ worries. Lack of scale and online presence are their true existential threats against the likes of Amazon and Walmart IMO.

 

[tmiw]

I’m not following... Apple Pay isn’t tied to debit cards. There is zero financial impact to the merchant... whether a customer uses Apple Pay tied to his credit card or inserted the same cc into a machine and entered a PIN, it won’t make a difference.

The only difference is, the merchant doesn’t get the customer cc info, and that’s why big retailers are reticent to accept Apple Pay.

The point is more that Apple Pay could cost merchants more than if those same customers would have run their physical debit cards as debit instead. While they could just ask people for their PINs when using Apple Pay and get around that issue, that'd also be a unwanted degradation in the customer experience--hence why most stores that support NFC just assume "credit" if you tap.

As for how common that is as a reason for not accepting Apple Pay, I can't say for sure.

 

[MyMacintosh]

Most pharmacies (and stores in general) have "insert the card yourself" card readers that face the customer. So if you're touching other peoples cards, you're doing it wrong. Of course the drive through is different.

Yeah I meant in drive thru. Plus you also have the people who have to hand in hard copy prescriptions which have all sorts of stains etc. I’m just happy to move on from exchanging stuff with people for payment when it can be contactless.

 

[pappy53]

Oh, I agree it is more secure, but by how much, the pin and chip isn't much less secure, we've been using it for ages in Europe, yes, there are scams but you as a customer won't lose anything, it's the risk of the banks, no risk for us, the customer.

In the U.S., debit cards are not covered for fraud, so Apple Pay is definitely more secure. It is not the bank's risk.
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More accurate title would be half of establishments don't or won't take Apple Pay.

Also, never understood why people risk dropping a $1K phone and the added trial and error inconvenience just to make a payment with phone when it can be done simply and fool proof with plastic.

Plus, Amazon Prime Whole Foods hassle free method without check-out process makes Apple Pay obsolete. Shopping will be as convenient as walking into your kitchen and walking out with food/drinks.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/15/a...ores-are-coming-to-chicago-and-san-francisco/

They risk it because of the security of Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, or Google Pay.

 

[tmiw]

In the U.S., debit cards are not covered for fraud, so Apple Pay is definitely more secure. It is not the bank's risk.

That's not strictly true. The main problems with debit cards in the US are a) you only have a limited amount of time (48 hours) to report fraud before more and more of it starts becoming your responsibility and b) it's your money that's tied up while being investigated.

Of course, if we had 100% chip support at the merchant level and required 2FA for all online purchases, those issues wouldn't really be a huge deal. Unfortunately, that isn't the case right now and at least with the latter, probably never will be.

 

[the johnmc]

I was curious and looked and basically nowhere I shop takes it. Target, Walmart, Fred Meyer, Safeway, Winco, Home Depot, Lowes and so forth. I looked at the list and maybe two stores I may have been in over the last few years. This type of payment system is more useful if every location uses it.

Plus it's just faster taking out my card.



Have to wipe those cards and phone down often.......yep, I'm serious. I do see you used most as some people may be weird enough to make that a habit.

Safeway does accept Apple Pay. I have used Apple Pay at Safeway multiple times. Support started rolling out almost a year ago.
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/02/safeway-rolling-out-apple-pay-in-united-states/

Winco does not, but they don't accept credit cards either. There's a possibility that they may accept it at some point similar to how ARCO does. Target and Walmart want to lock you into their payment methods.

I use Apple Pay whenever possible. It's much more convenient, especially since the chip on my card stopped working.