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Ouch.

Recently tried to do an in-app order for Sonic drive-thru pickup after pumping gas on a road trip. Spent a bunch of time looking at the menu, building an order, went to checkout and they only take Sonic gift cards. Sure I can buy gift cards in the app, for $10 or $20 or whatever. No apparent way to use my credit card or Apple Pay.

We go to Sonic maybe twice a year. I'm not gonna leave money sitting with them when I rarely visit.

*shrug* Switched to Chick-fil-A app and did our order quick and easy.



Some folks just can't miss an opportunity for some self-righteous virtue-signalling.
Yea CFA is always ridiculously crowded blocking traffic sometimes even on the main road from the DT backup, but their app is always spot on.
 
Apple 2020:

- Installs people tracking app for harmless virus that healthy people will never get

- Promotes junk food which makes people unhealthy so they're more likely to get this virus

WTF happened to that company???
 
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Apple 2020:

- Installs people tracking app for harmless virus that healthy people will never get

- Promotes junk food which makes people unhealthy so they're more likely to get this virus

WTF happened to that company???

LMAO. Really? I see your point, but I know a young, healthy male that was in the hospital on a ventilator. I also know a relatively young, healthy woman that had it. It's certainly not harmless and healthy people definitely get it.
 
At least with the recent ones, it's probably to encourage social distancing and staying at home.
I doubt it has anything to do with that. Those promos have always been like that, in-app or online. Even before the Covid-19 crisis they were like that.
 
Yeah. I thought the big selling point of using ApplePay was that it was a (contactless) digital wallet that PAID for your purchases and meals directly.... without having to use another 3rd-party app.
Apple Pay can be used on websites and in apps. It works like paypal and keeps your data private just like the contactless counterpart. It works pretty well for the most part, but the Burger King app's implementation for some reason returns errors for me no matter which card I choose for Apple Pay.
 
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Apple Pay can be used on websites and in apps. It works like paypal and keeps your data private just like the contactless counterpart. It works pretty well for the most part, but the Burger King app's implementation for some reason returns errors for me no matter which card I choose for Apple Pay.
Unfortunately, though, most american restaurants and many american food chains prefer to support the use of apple pay in an app over supporting its use at their physical locations via nfc. Moreover, every apple pay promo that has existed has only applied to using apple pay on a website or in an app. Except for the Apple Card, only available in the US, Apple hasn’t done anything to stimulate the use of apple pay at physical locations (i.e., nfc contactless payment).
 
Unfortunately, though, most american restaurants and many american food chains prefer to support the use of apple pay in an app over supporting its use at their physical locations via nfc. Moreover, every apple pay promo that has existed has only applied to using apple pay on a website or in an app. Except for the Apple Card, only available in the US, Apple hasn’t done anything to stimulate the use of apple pay at physical locations (i.e., nfc contactless payment).

At least for counter service, having mobile ordering (app or website) can allow restaurants to handle more orders in a given amount of time than if all of those had to order in person. I can see why many would want to implement their own apps and encourage people to use them.

However, I wouldn't say they're avoiding the use of NFC entirely. If anything, counter service seems to have way less of a hangup about implementing that than, say, table service. (Though this might end up changing due to the pandemic.)
 
I wouldn't say they're avoiding the use of NFC entirely. If anything, counter service seems to have way less of a hangup about implementing that than, say, table service. (Though this might end up changing due to the pandemic.)
Speak for the fast food joints. Sit down restaurants with table service in the US do seem to be avoiding the use of NFC at all costs. Only a couple of them have tablet style devices on the tables such as Chilis or Olive Garden. The rest of the sit down restaurants in the country, more than 90% of them, don’t use NFC at all. They either have no way whatsoever for customers to pay at the table or just offer the option to do so via an app or QR code, but none of them uses NFC. If that’s not clear evidence that they are deliberately avoiding the use of NFC, then I don’t know what is. Especially considering that all the US restaurants that had already migrated from magstripe to chip before nfc became a thing had the option to purchase standalone wireless terminals when they did so, just as the restaurants outside the US did, and instead they stupidly chose to purchase wired pinpads, thus continuing to keep the payment away from the tables as though they were still living in 1980 when wireless terminals did not exist and paying at the table was impossible.
 
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Speak for the fast food joints. Sit down restaurants with table service in the US do seem to be avoiding the use of NFC at all costs. Only a couple of them have tablet style devices on the tables such as Chilis or Olive Garden. The rest of the sit down restaurants in the country, more than 90% of them, don’t use NFC at all. They either have no way whatsoever for customers to pay at the table or just offer the option to do so via an app or QR code, but none of them uses NFC. If that’s not clear evidence that they are deliberately avoiding the use of NFC, then I don’t know what is.
And coincidentally, in the Year of COVID, many of these same sit-down restaurants will go out of business.... in part because they did not and could not adapt.

Those establishments that embraced contactless NFC payment (e.g. ApplePay), mobile orders, social media advantages, and even contact-free curbside pickups, they are the Adapters that will survive the ravages of COVID. They will continue serving customers, they continue to remain open for business.
 
Speak for the fast food joints. Sit down restaurants with table service in the US do seem to be avoiding the use of NFC at all costs. Only a couple of them have tablet style devices on the tables such as Chilis or Olive Garden. The rest of the sit down restaurants in the country, more than 90% of them, don’t use NFC at all. They either have no way whatsoever for customers to pay at the table or just offer the option to do so via an app or QR code, but none of them uses NFC. If that’s not clear evidence that they are deliberately avoiding the use of NFC, then I don’t know what is. Especially considering that all the US restaurants that had already migrated from magstripe to chip before nfc became a thing had the option to purchase standalone wireless terminals when they did so, just as the restaurants outside the US did, and instead they stupidly chose to purchase wired pinpads, thus continuing to keep the payment away from the tables as though they were still living in 1980 when wireless terminals did not exist and paying at the table was impossible.

I agree that many are avoiding wireless terminals for "customer experience" and similar reasons, but at the same time, I'm not sure there are/were all that many options available for the restaurants that want(ed) to use them. After all, a lot of regular stores could have gotten EMV right at the October 2015 deadline had they thrown out all of their previous POS integration work and used standalone terminals, but didn't do so for obvious reasons.

(BTW, for an example of how much of a hassle non-integration can be, here's what happens for a restaurant to handle a Grubhub et al order:

And for many restaurants, getting app orders is more labor-intensive than taking orders by phone, if the apps aren’t directly integrated into their point-of-sale systems: First, someone must “translate” the order into the restaurant’s computers, then a manager must void the transaction to reconcile the books because the revenue doesn’t show up until later (and with the app’s commission taken out) — and then the books must be reconciled again to account for the food inventory.

Anyway, if it's a choice between a wireless terminal that causes a bunch of additional work to reconcile the payment and a non-wireless one that the POS vendor added an integration for, I'm not surprised that many chose the latter.)
 
I agree that many are avoiding wireless terminals for "customer experience" and similar reasons, but at the same time, I'm not sure there are/were all that many options available for the restaurants that want(ed) to use them. After all, a lot of regular stores could have gotten EMV right at the October 2015 deadline had they thrown out all of their previous POS integration work and used standalone terminals, but didn't do so for obvious reasons.

(BTW, for an example of how much of a hassle non-integration can be, here's what happens for a restaurant to handle a Grubhub et al order:

And for many restaurants, getting app orders is more labor-intensive than taking orders by phone, if the apps aren’t directly integrated into their point-of-sale systems: First, someone must “translate” the order into the restaurant’s computers, then a manager must void the transaction to reconcile the books because the revenue doesn’t show up until later (and with the app’s commission taken out) — and then the books must be reconciled again to account for the food inventory.

Anyway, if it's a choice between a wireless terminal that causes a bunch of additional work to reconcile the payment and a non-wireless one that the POS vendor added an integration for, I'm not surprised that many chose the latter.)
That example doesn’t really apply. That hassle you just described is for orders placed on a separate digital platform such as grubhub or uber eats. That doesn’t happen with dine in orders. At most if not all US restaurants, dine in orders taken by waiters/waitresses at the table are still manually entered by each waiter/waitress into the restaurant’s electronic system (at most places the waiters/waitresses still use simply pen and paper to take the customers order at the table before they go back and enter the order on the computer). With that in mind, the only difference between having integration or standalone card terminals is how the payment is entered into the system to close the tab at the end (i.e., all that changes is that, when using standalone terminals, the card payment is processed at the table and then the waiter/waitress has to manually enter it into the computer to close the tab, in pretty much the same way they would handle a cash payment, as opposed to taking the patron’s credit card to the back to process the payment directly on the computer -thus compromising the security of that card-, so it really isn’t much more work to go standalone nor does it take any longer to process each payment).

It can’t be that bad to use standalone wireless devices if all restaurants in the rest of the world have done it for at least a decade. Americans have becone rather lazy to the point of preferring to compromise the customers’ security over loosing a tiny bit of extra comfort.
 
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Speak for the fast food joints. Sit down restaurants with table service in the US do seem to be avoiding the use of NFC at all costs. Only a couple of them have tablet style devices on the tables such as Chilis or Olive Garden. The rest of the sit down restaurants in the country, more than 90% of them, don’t use NFC at all. They either have no way whatsoever for customers to pay at the table or just offer the option to do so via an app or QR code, but none of them uses NFC. If that’s not clear evidence that they are deliberately avoiding the use of NFC, then I don’t know what is. Especially considering that all the US restaurants that had already migrated from magstripe to chip before nfc became a thing had the option to purchase standalone wireless terminals when they did so, just as the restaurants outside the US did, and instead they stupidly chose to purchase wired pinpads, thus continuing to keep the payment away from the tables as though they were still living in 1980 when wireless terminals did not exist and paying at the table was impossible.
I remember when places didn't even take cards or they used that machine with the carbon paper receipt to take an imprint of your card, and they had to call to approve over a certain amount. Some customers will be more likely to go to a restaurant where the card never leaves their sight. And if you can streamline the payment process, you can get more customers per unit time. I swear before the apps an machines to pay, almost every server would be great until the payment process, and then it would take as long as the whole rest of the time at the table. Why would you want to upset someone right before it is time to figure out your tip???
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That example doesn’t really apply. That hassle you just described is for orders placed on a separate digital platform such as grubhub or uber eats. That doesn’t happen with dine in orders. At most if not all US restaurants, dine in orders taken by waiters/waitresses at the table are still manually entered by each waiter/waitress into the restaurant’s electronic system (at most places the waiters/waitresses still use simply pen and paper to take the customers order at the table before they go back and enter the order on the computer). With that in mind, the only difference between having integration or standalone card terminals is how the payment is entered into the system to close the tab at the end (i.e., all that changes is that, when using standalone terminals, the card payment is processed at the table and then the waiter/waitress has to manually enter it into the computer to close the tab, in pretty much the same way they would handle a cash payment, as opposed to taking the patron’s credit card to the back to process the payment directly on the computer -thus compromising the security of that card-, so it really isn’t much more work to go standalone nor does it take any longer to process each payment).

It can’t be that bad to use standalone wireless devices if all restaurants in the rest of the world have done it for at least a decade. Americans have becone rather lazy to the point of preferring to compromise the customers’ security over loosing a tiny bit of extra comfort.
If anything, it is way faster for us to pay through an app or machine at the table. Anywhere we go without, it always takes forever to get our check and complete the payment process. And machines are even better than an app because you don't even need to wait for a check to enter a code or scan a QR.
 
That example doesn’t really apply. That hassle you just described is for orders placed on a separate digital platform such as grubhub or uber eats. That doesn’t happen with dine in orders. At most if not all US restaurants, dine in orders taken by waiters/waitresses at the table are still manually entered by each waiter/waitress into the restaurant’s electronic system (at most places the waiters/waitresses still use simply pen and paper to take the customers order at the table before they go back and enter the order on the computer). With that in mind, the only difference between having integration or standalone card terminals is how the payment is entered into the system to close the tab at the end (i.e., all that changes is that, when using standalone terminals, the card payment is processed at the table and then the waiter/waitress has to manually enter it into the computer to close the tab, in pretty much the same way they would handle a cash payment, as opposed to taking the patron’s credit card to the back to process the payment directly on the computer -thus compromising the security of that card-, so it really isn’t much more work to go standalone nor does it take any longer to process each payment).

It can’t be that bad to use standalone wireless devices if all restaurants in the rest of the world have done it for at least a decade. Americans have becone rather lazy to the point of preferring to compromise the customers’ security over loosing a tiny bit of extra comfort.

Most restaurant POS systems are pretty garbage, though. As another example, bill splitting is also pretty frowned upon at a lot of places simply because it's a pain in said POS systems, even if one writes down what items should go on which form of payment. As a result, if it's allowed, it's best practice to let servers know before ordering if bills need to be split.

Anyway, if it's a huge amount of work for each terminal that needs to be integrated, guess which ones are going to be prioritized? Hint: it'll be the ones that are most commonly available (e.g. the same Verifone and Ingenico wired PIN pads already in use at a bunch of other stores and most likely to be used for counter service as well--especially since there's no need to support PIN). Additionally, if any others are implemented, they'll likely get significantly less testing; being what's effectively a beta tester is not an ideal situation for a merchant.

And before anyone says that they should just swap out their POS system for another one, yeah, I don't see that happening either without significant customer demand for contactless. Which might very well happen over time thanks to the pandemic, but time will tell on that.
 
Most restaurant POS systems are pretty garbage, though. As another example, bill splitting is also pretty frowned upon at a lot of places simply because it's a pain in said POS systems, even if one writes down what items should go on which form of payment. As a result, if it's allowed, it's best practice to let servers know before ordering if bills need to be split.

Anyway, if it's a huge amount of work for each terminal that needs to be integrated, guess which ones are going to be prioritized? Hint: it'll be the ones that are most commonly available (e.g. the same Verifone and Ingenico wired PIN pads already in use at a bunch of other stores and most likely to be used for counter service as well--especially since there's no need to support PIN). Additionally, if any others are implemented, they'll likely get significantly less testing; being what's effectively a beta tester is not an ideal situation for a merchant.

And before anyone says that they should just swap out their POS system for another one, yeah, I don't see that happening either without significant customer demand for contactless. Which might very well happen over time thanks to the pandemic, but time will tell on that.
¿a huge amount of work? standalone terminals come from the bank already set up and ready to use. The check amount and tip are entered on the terminal itself and no integration to the restaurant’s own system is needed. Payments can be manually entered afterwards by the staff just as cash payments are usually entered. It’s not so much work as you describe.

As for bill splitting, it’s always desirable to let the waiter know from the start. However, it makes no difference whether a standalone terminal or a wired pinpad is used to process the payment. The pain is the same when using the system to split, whether the cards are swiped directly on the computer or the payment is manually entered after using the standalone POS device. None of the two options offers an advantage over the other in that sense. Also keep in mind that should wireless standalone terminals be used by a restaurant, then the wired pinpads should be removed, not have both available at the same time as you seem to assume would happen.
 
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¿a huge amount of work? standalone terminals come from the bank already set up and ready to use. The check amount and tip are entered on the terminal itself and no integration to the restaurant’s own system is needed. Payments can be manually entered afterwards by the staff just as cash payments are usually entered. It’s not so much work as you describe.

As for bill splitting, it’s always desirable to let the waiter know from the start. However, it makes no difference whether a standalone terminal or a wired pinpad is used to process the payment. The pain is the same when using the system to split, whether the cards are swiped directly on the computer or the payment is manually entered after using the standalone POS device. None of the two options offers an advantage over the other in that sense. Also keep in mind that should wireless standalone terminals be used by a restaurant, then the wired pinpads should be removed, not have both available at the same time as you seem to assume would happen.

Integrating a terminal with a point of sale system is what I mean by a "large amount of work"--and that depends on how the POS is structured. Standalone setups don't need any work to begin using them but transactions still need to be reconciled afterward. In any case, it's obvious that American merchants (not just restaurants) seem to vastly think that integration is worth the costs and limits or else EMV would have rolled out a lot faster than it did.

Also, from what I've seen, the places that use Ziosk tablets seem to also have wired terminals attached to their POS systems, most likely for when the Ziosks act up (which sadly seems to be pretty common). Even if it wasn't for Ziosk, it's probably still a good idea to have some kind of backup stored somewhere.
 
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