Apple Pay vs Chip and Pin

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by tl01, Oct 16, 2015.

  1. tl01 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    #1
    Chip and pin is so slow. I'm really surprised by how long it takes. I would think this would encourage merchants to want to use Apple Pay. Anyone know why chip and pin is so darn slow?
     
  2. vlinkz macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    #2
    Because it's so old?

    Not that I've noticed it being so slow I felt the need to complain.
     
  3. melman101 macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    #3
    I used it for the first time in Canada, chip and pin that is. It's incredibly slow compared to Apple Pay.
     
  4. StefanWolves macrumors regular

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    Mar 11, 2012
    #4
    I find it incredible that America is only just taking up chip and pin. You're only 15 years behind
     
  5. Newtons Apple macrumors Pentium

    Newtons Apple

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    Mar 12, 2014
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Florida
    #5
    When you look at the overall number of shoppers, Apple Pay is OK but Credit/debit card sales still GREATLY out number iPhone Apple Pay users. I use my chipped card at multiple retail stores and it does not take long at all.

    I have also been behind some idiot who could not get his Apple Pay to work and took like 10 minutes before she gave up.
     
  6. melman101 macrumors 68030

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    Sep 3, 2009
    #6
    Chip and Pin? Hah! We, USA, are getting Chip and Sign, LOL
     
  7. StefanWolves macrumors regular

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    Mar 11, 2012
    #7
    isn't that why you're meant to sign the back of your card? ;)
     
  8. aristobrat macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    #8
    I think a good amount of the reason EMV feels slower is that you can't pre-swipe and put your card away while the cashier is still ringing up the sale. If you wait to swipe your old magswipe cards to the very end of the transaction, it seems to take longer than normal too. I mean, an EMV transaction is slower, but I think it's in hundreds of milliseconds for the actual transaction processing part.
     
  9. doboy macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    #9
    What sign? :) It's mainly just chip, which takes for ever and ever.
     
  10. mrklaw macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    #10

    It depends on the store. Some smaller stores seem to have dial up modems in their payment systems which can take a long time to authorise - you can see it pop up with 'contacting bank'. Other big stores like tesco it is a few seconds

    And with contactless gaining traction in the uk, I'm not sure that Apple Pay will be that attractive (isn't stopping half the banks here advertising it though)
     
  11. aneftp macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    #11
    No. USA card issuers know Americans are lazy and stupid. And that's the way they want to keep it.

    Because Americans are less likely to use their card if they have to have a pin. It's just common sense from a business standpoint.

    So I think until the USA has a chip and pin. There will still be fraud.
     
  12. tl01 thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    #12
    Okay...so it should have been chip and sign?and it is slow. I'm sure the approval only takes a moment but somehow the machine keeps my card way longer than it took to swipe it and way longer than Apple Pay.
     
  13. tl01 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    Jun 20, 2010
    #13
    These are in big stores.... Like target and the evil Walmart that I try to avoid.
     
  14. Dented macrumors 6502a

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    Oct 16, 2009
    #14
    Chip and pin is very old news now in the uk - compared to contactless it feels slow now, but I don't remember it being a problem when it first came in.

    Contactless is great and Apple Pay is even better in principle, it's annoying though that here the £30 limit put in for contactless cards is also still in place for Apple Pay, which means there's not much advantage really in all the extra security and cleverness going on with the phone. It's very handy to have it there though for the odd day you leave your wallet at home...
     
  15. tl01 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    Jun 20, 2010
    #15
    Agreed. The low dollar limit there is annoying. I would hardly be able to use Apple Pay if we had that limit. I use it most when purchasing groceries and it is rare I spend under that amount.
     
  16. ron1004 macrumors 6502

    ron1004

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    Feb 6, 2010
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    #16
    I also LOL'd at that when a few of my local stores, including Target, ask to insert the Chip card and then sign on the screen.
     
  17. CE3, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015

    CE3 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    #17
    I've only used chip and pin a few times and it does seem slow.

    I've only been able to use Apple Pay a few times as well, but the process was super quick and convenient. The problem with Apple Pay, though, is that it's still not accepted at most of the places I shop.

    Is the Apple Pay limit some kind of UK/EU regulation?
     
  18. Dented macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    #18
    I don't think it's EU related, it's just something the banks implemented for contactless cards (to limit the possibility of fraud/accidental payments presumably) and haven't bothered to lift for phone payments over the same system. ISTR there's a system change they're working on to enable it some time down the track.
     
  19. aristobrat macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    #19
    I agree, there will always be some fraud.

    The PIN makes it harder to use a lost or stolen chip card, but that type of fraud is relatively low in the US. Maybe the issuers will come back to tackle that later.

    The chip on the card (regardless if the cardholder verification method is PIN or signature) addresses the biggest type of fraud in the US, which is counterfeit cards... Reusing hacked/skimmed card numbers.
     
  20. Richie2000 macrumors 6502

    Richie2000

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Location:
    West Sussex UK
    #20
    It's a shame the Apple Pay (and contactless) limit is £30 here in the UK. It needs to be a £100 before I will feel I can truly ditch my wallet full of cards and really benefit from the tech.

    I think the speed of chip & pin is controlled by the retailers "floor limit". Larger organisations are happy not to dial the bank for authorisation up to X amount, making transactions up to that limit quicker, but some of the smaller retailers will be set to dial for authority on everything.
     
  21. mrklaw macrumors 65816

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    Jan 29, 2008
    #21
    I wonder if that is different in the US? Sounds like target is really slow but you'd expect them to be fast. Maybe just slower as they are more cautious due to it rolling out relatively recently there?
     
  22. scaredpoet macrumors 604

    scaredpoet

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    #22
    The chip needs to be authenticated, using an RSA, Triple DES or SHA cryptographic hash. It's not supposed to take a whole lot of time; a desktop CPU or even an iPhone or  Watch could do it in a fraction of a second. But I imagine if the card terminals are pretty cheap, they've probably skimped on CPU capacity and so the delay for authentication is longer.

    No doubt, this also means there are fewer cases where merchants doing chip and pin/sign can process transactions "offline" or batch them for later. For the authentication to happen, there has to be communication with the card issuer and that takes more time.
     
  23. Newtons Apple macrumors Pentium

    Newtons Apple

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    Mar 12, 2014
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Florida
    #23
    If you want "for ever and ever", try using Apple Pay where they do not accept it!
     
  24. reclusive46 macrumors 65816

    reclusive46

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Location:
    Canada
    #24
    There's already quite a lot of places in the UK that have no limit for Apple Pay. I've made high value transactions in M&S, Co-op, Waitrose, Giraffe and my local independent convenience store.
     
  25. lordofthereef macrumors G4

    lordofthereef

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #25
    The majority of the time that it takes to check out is actually ringing up or otherwise inputting the product you have purchased. Apple Pay takes what, 5 seconds? Chip takes maybe 10? In the grand scheme of things, THAT is why time isn't the factor in the format of your transaction; it's simply not anywhere near the major factor, unless of course you're only consider very small orders (a few items). But then you have people bringing their 46 items through the ten items or less line as I got to experience at the grocery store just yesterday.
     

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