Apple Pay Will Soon Launch in 16 More Countries, Including Bulgaria and Croatia

[MisterSavage]

Sounds about right. I think pay at the table is growing in the US, however, albeit very slowly (and quite possibly will never be the majority of restaurants). A hybrid "take card away" system with a POS station at the front for takeout/contactless is probably the most likely result eventually, assuming mobile wallets become popular enough.

That said, any restaurant using Toast probably won't support contactless any time soon simply because they never integrated contactless into the hardware they're providing. Your best bet is anywhere using Clover or one of the Ziosk units, or possibly an airport using SSP America for their concessions if you're going to fly through one at some point.

Square readers are also something I see a lot at the smaller food places where I use Apple Pay.

 

[lartola]

Eh, they could go pay at the front if they wanted. I suspect a lot of people wouldn't like that either, hence why it's not common.

However, if PIN were ever made mandatory, I could see a significant number of those adopting that model fairly quickly as it'd be less trouble/expense than buying terminals all over again. And if enough places do it, customer objections would probably diminish quickly as it'd be unavoidable (unless one wants to stop eating out).

Question is why? why did restaurants in the US choose to buy wired terminals when they upgraded from magnetic stripe to EMV chip? they were buying new equipment, so they must have had the opportunity to choose between wireless or wired terminals. Yet they all chose to buy wired chip readers and force themselves to keep the outdated payment processing system of taking away cards that puts the customers' security at risk. Why did they make such a stupid choice? don't they care about security? or is it that the wireless card readers aren't as readily available in the US as they are in other countries?

 

[dontwalkhand]

Question is why? why did restaurants in the US choose to buy wired terminals when they upgraded from magnetic stripe to EMV chip? they were buying new equipment, so they must have had the opportunity to choose between wireless or wired terminals. Yet they all chose to buy wired chip readers and force themselves to keep the outdated payment processing system of taking away cards that puts the customers' security at risk. Why did they make such a stupid choice? don't they care about security? or is it that the wireless card readers aren't as readily available in the US as they are in other countries?

I worked at the time when selling this equipment and let me tell you in a lot of cases this was the *ONLY* choice they had. The Aloha system only supported two types of Verifones and both were wired. If you wanted wireless you would have had to wait even longer for more certifications.
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For what it's worth, I spent some time googling some countries that I know are chip and signature to see how things work. South Korea, for instance, tends to use a pay at the front model; however, contactless payment with NFC seems to be uncommon.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anything about Singapore other than this that claims the employee runs the card for you. This could very well mean that pay at the table is still done, though. (Maybe someone who's been there can clarify?)



Sounds about right. I think pay at the table is growing in the US, however, albeit very slowly (and quite possibly will never be the majority of restaurants). A hybrid "take card away" system with a POS station at the front for takeout/contactless is probably the most likely result eventually, assuming mobile wallets become popular enough.

That said, any restaurant using Toast probably won't support contactless any time soon simply because they never integrated contactless into the hardware they're providing. Your best bet is anywhere using Clover or one of the Ziosk units, or possibly an airport using SSP America for their concessions if you're going to fly through one at some point.



Eh, they could go pay at the front if they wanted. I suspect a lot of people wouldn't like that either, hence why it's not common.

However, if PIN were ever made mandatory, I could see a significant number of those adopting that model fairly quickly as it'd be less trouble/expense than buying terminals all over again. And if enough places do it, customer objections would probably diminish quickly as it'd be unavoidable (unless one wants to stop eating out).

California Pizza Kitchen did exactly this. They have one station you can walk up and use Apple Pay if you’d like with an MX915. It’s also the take out counter register.

 

[tmiw]

I worked at the time when selling this equipment and let me tell you in a lot of cases this was the *ONLY* choice they had. The Aloha system only supported two types of Verifones and both were wired. If you wanted wireless you would have had to wait even longer for more certifications.

Note that going to standalone terminals instead of anything with POS integration was an option, too. The main issue is that restaurants don't want to do that (and I don't blame them, honestly, considering how often cards are used).

 

[lartola]

I worked at the time when selling this equipment and let me tell you in a lot of cases this was the *ONLY* choice they had. The Aloha system only supported two types of Verifones and both were wired. If you wanted wireless you would have had to wait even longer for more certifications.

If you wanted wireless and you want the terminal to be connected to the sales system software, that is. But that's not what restaurants outside the US using wireless terminals usually do. The wireless terminals are usually standalone, running software form the bank or payment provider, so when the payment is processed at the table the terminal just uses a wifi or cellular internet connection to connect to the bank or payment provider for authorization and then prints a receipt for the approved payment. Then the waiter/waitress (or sometimes it's the cashier who comes to process the payment) just goes back to the service station to manually record the payment in the system and close the tab, the same they do for cash payments. I guess that's one more thing Americans refuse to do. I'm pretty sure the standalone wireless terminals either don't require as much certification or come already certified.

 

[tmiw]

If you wanted wireless and you want the terminal to connect directly to the sales system, that is. But that's not what restaurants outside the US using wireless terminals do. The wireless terminals are usually standalone so when the payment is processed at the table, the terminal just uses a wifi or cellular internet connection to connect to the bank or payment provider for authorization and then prints a receipt for the approved payment. Then the waiter/waitress (or sometimes it's the cashier that comes to process the payment) just goes back to the service station to manually enter the payment into the system and close the tab, just as they would if they had received a cash payment. I guess that's one more thing Americans refuse to do.

I'm sure if EMV was something that was legally mandatory (instead of "highly encouraged" via a liability shift that some merchants were/are apparently perfectly okay accepting in the short/medium term), the decisions made would have been a lot different. I'm honestly surprised adoption is as large as it is in general, never mind with restaurants.

 

[lartola]

Note that going to standalone terminals instead of anything with POS integration was an option, too. The main issue is that restaurants don't want to do that (and I don't blame them, honestly, considering how often cards are used).

That's what all of them did here in Mexico. They never do POS integration here, and the restaurants are not any smaller than many US restaurants, nor do they receive card payments too much less frequently. We even have restaurants from many of the same chains that operate in the US such as Chilis, Applebees, Cheesecake Factory, Capital Grille, Fogo de Chao, California Pizza kitchen, iHop, Hooters, Olive Garden, TGI Friday's or PF Chang's and they all do use the standalone wireless terminals at their locations here in Mexico as opposed to what happens at their US locations.

 

[dontwalkhand]

If you wanted wireless and you want the terminal to be connected to the sales system software, that is. But that's not what restaurants outside the US using wireless terminals usually do. The wireless terminals are usually standalone, running software form the bank or payment provider, so when the payment is processed at the table the terminal just uses a wifi or cellular internet connection to connect to the bank or payment provider for authorization and then prints a receipt for the approved payment. Then the waiter/waitress (or sometimes it's the cashier who comes to process the payment) just goes back to the service station to manually record the payment in the system and close the tab, the same they do for cash payments. I guess that's one more thing Americans refuse to do. I'm pretty sure the standalone wireless terminals either don't require as much certification or come already certified.

You’re right on the ball with this. In the U.K. they used the same Aloha (crap) software but the terminals had to have their amounts entered manually because they didn’t talk to the POS software. Some places did have this working with Aloha outside the US though with wireless Ingenico terminals. The screen prompts asked for a check# and a server# so it’s not unheard of, but it may be a third party integration that talked to Aloha with an API, an option available to restaurants in the US as well.
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That's what all of them did here in Mexico. They never do POS integration here, and the restaurants are not any smaller than many US restaurants, nor do they receive card payments too much less frequently. We even have restaurants from many of the same chains that operate in the US such as Chilis, Applebees, Cheesecake Factory, Capital Grille, Fogo de Chao, California Pizza kitchen, iHop, Hooters, Olive Garden, TGI Friday's or PF Chang's and they all do use the standalone wireless terminals at their locations here in Mexico as opposed to what happens at their US locations.

It’s because the locations in Mexico uses the regular US Pos software which doesn’t support Mexico MSPs

 

[lartola]

It’s because the locations in Mexico uses the regular US Pos software which doesn’t support Mexico MSPs

It's because all restaurants were required by regulations to stop taking away customer cards for security. The fastest and easiest way to implement payment at the table and stop taking away any cards without spending too much money in upgrading POS software and/or hardware was to use standalone wireless terminals and give up POS integration, so everyone did that: Mexico locations of US restaurant chains did it and all other restaurants owned and operated by companies based in Mexico did it too. As someone already pointed out before, POS integration with wireless terminals is a lot more complicated. I have never seen it in use in Mexico, and in the US I only saw it once at an Outback Steakhouse location in Houston. And BTW, the NFC reader was still disabled on those ingenico terminals at the Outback even though the screen prompts did say to "insert, swipe or tap". That was in late 2017, so maybe they have enabled it by now.

In any case, my basic point was that restaurants outside the US have had no problem with giving up POS integration in favor of customer security. If everyone else could do that, why can't Americans?

 

[tmiw]

In any case, my basic point was that restaurants outside the US have had no problem with giving up POS integration in favor of customer security. If everyone else could do that, why can't Americans?

I think you answered your own question. No laws requiring it means it'll be avoided as much as possible.

 

[NBAasDOGG]

Apple Pay just released in Luxembourg

 

[dream21]

Today apple pay has been activated in Greece

 

[Alan Wynn]

In any case, my basic point was that restaurants outside the US have had no problem with giving up POS integration in favor of customer security. If everyone else could do that, why can't Americans?

Simply because it mostly adds only theoretical security, vs. giving up real operational control. It is true that having the card out of customer hands makes things less secure, but the reality is that it as a very rare attack vector. In countries where pins are required, they have no choice but deliver a terminal to the table, but without needing a pin, it does not matter much.

To be clear, I am not advocating for our current solution, just explaining why it is the way it is.

 

[lartola]

Simply because it mostly adds only theoretical security, vs. giving up real operational control. It is true that having the card out of customer hands makes things less secure, but the reality is that it as a very rare attack vector. In countries where pins are required, they have no choice but deliver a terminal to the table, but without needing a pin, it does not matter much.

To be clear, I am not advocating for our current solution, just explaining why it is the way it is.

It's not because of the PIN, though, it's for security. Here in Mexico for example, delivering the terminal to the table was implemented by all restaurants operating in the country nearly a decade ago at a time when all credit card payments were authorized with signature just like in the US. PIN authorization on credit cards, on the other hand, was just implemented by Mexican card issuers near the end of 2018. So no, at least here in Mexico PIN was definitely not the main reason for implementing the wireless terminals. Nor does it have to be anywhere else.