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Re: Re: Re: Dvorak's postualtions

Originally posted by Fukui
But he's Devorak...he invented the keyboard! He must be all knowing!! :D

Ya a really crappy keyboad IMHO. I spend 5 minutes looking for each letter when I have to go to our graphics department for tech support. I ended up putting VNC on their system so I can do it remotely.
 
Re: Apple PDA?

Originally posted by Macrumors
While it may simply be speculation, one columnist claims "there's good reason to believe that a jazzy new Newton II will be forthcoming, perhaps in January" from Apple.

The original Newton was created by Apple in the early 90's and represented the first Personal Digital Assistant (PDA). The early Newtons were met with substantial criticism for its handwriting recognition. This technology was significantly improved in later revisions and later became integrated into Mac OS X as "Inkwell".

Quicktime movies of a Newton 2000 in action:

Say Hello to Newton
Newton Assistant
Newton Trash

Rumors of an Apple-branded tablet resurfaced last year from traditionally accurate sources. (eWeek, ThinkSecret) However, Jobs has been publicly skeptical of the concept of tablets:

I knew that Apple would bring back the Newton, how could they let Microsoft and Palm Inc. have all the glory. Maybe this time it will have better handwriting recognition and run a miniature version of Panther, like Microsoft has done with its Pocket PC operating system, only better than Microsoft.:)
 
Re: Re: Apple PDA?

Originally posted by Mac Dummy
and run a miniature version of Panther, like Microsoft has done with its Pocket PC operating system

The one thing I'm constantly amazed by in these sorts of discussions is the fixation that so many people seem to have on the idea of some kind of OS X Lite. That's an incredibly, incredibly bad idea.

Apple has the ideal handheld OS in Newton. If you ever use one, you'll instantly see how well integreted it is in terms of data usage. Palm and PocketPC are just so... crude and unimaginative. I really hate the idea of an Apple branded Palm. Palm has had all this time, and they're still dressing up the same mediocre ideas they had in 1997.
 
The idea of a PDA from Apple sounds great the idea becoming another realty would be fantastic ive never had the previous PDA by apple but tell you what if they moved into this area again id snap one up and add a mobile printer woo id have one ..

will it happne time will tell!!!
 
Steve Jobs has consistently said, no Apple PDA and no Apple phone. The PDA market is too mature now. Sales are down, so Apple will not waste its time making products that are on the wane. The Sony product is vaporware at the moment. it does not exist. Any product that tries to be all things usually fails at doing any one thing well. An iPod remains basically a music player and it does that extremely well.

Mr. Dvorak has no information about a "new" Newton, it's only speculation by him. He's blowing wind through his a**. He has no clue. He's a "hack" writer.
 
My first post

I jumped the Apple ship after my PB G3 (Wallstreet) for various reasons, but still keep up on the rumor mill and news. Having been a Newtonian (2000 upgraded to the 2100), and having been on the PC side now for 6-7 years it has come to amaze me. What has? That Windows sucks so much? That uncreative ppl use Windows, and hipsters use Macs? No, no. It's the shear obliviousness of Mac users that is amazing. Sure, call it flaimbait, up to this it is. But face it kids. Those of us that made it through MacOS 7.5.2 are allowed to act like grumpy old-timers. Now for the on-topic part...

First, Jobs hated the Newton. He killed the Newton. He has an ego the size of a planet, and would stab himself in the eye with a spork before admitting he was wrong to do something. Those of you hoping that logic will prevail in the Jobs-mos, face the facts. Ain't happening.

Second, Apple isn't 'revolutionary'. I'm sorry. I love macs, but changing the PC case was inevitable. Maybe Apple made the first AIO pc, but that was a play that was taken from a much much much older playbook. It's called a terminal. Minimum footprint, usable but not excessive funtionality. Games that played on the iMac at a reasonable speed were few and far between, which is saying alot, since mac games at the time were few and far between (even with the 2nd generation of renewed game support - go sprockets!)

Third, if Apple isn't revolutionary, what is it? I would say PCs are 'evolutionary', which is why there are 40 versions of every component. Tiny adjustments here and there. Apple is full blown punctuated equilibrium in a design/marketing suit. Apple doesn't wait for nature (trial and error or consumer feedback) to do the job. They prefer a comet strike that wipes out all vestige of the old products outer-most shell. Revolutionary? Nah. Not like they run on gumdrops and dreams. But when they change things, they do it right the first time, after waiting almost too long. And they make a huge deal out of it (and rightly so).

Fourth, Job-atollah has been saying smartphones are the way to go? Really? You mean, several devices in one? Wait, like a 'mobile digital hub'? What a stretch... Is there anyone here that REALLY doesn't think that this is something every company knows? Right now the limitations are tech based (when was 3G supposed to debut? What is decent digital cell converage like in the US?) Symbian has been around since '98-'99. Remember the old Kyocera PalmOS phone?

Fifth, the idea that the pda market is 'saturated'. So is the PC market. Better stop making computers, too. M$ saw that they were getting a late start, and what did they do? Jumped right in with a bunch of junky Personal Digital Bricks. Last I checked they were neck and neck with PalmOS. At least Apple has a great foundation with the Newton OS. They have integrated wireless in most of their shipping products (I would assume a large number of users opt for the wireless and BT options), BT has matured, 802.11b is widespread, both are available in cheap single chips. These are the exact reasons Apple SHOULD enter the PDA market. They are the masters of rebadging older technology and throwing on an amazing interface. They've waited so long that now Sony is their only real PDA threat, and the deciding factor would be the OS. Apple doesn't like competition in the design department and there's little they can do with the PDA form factor that Sony and the new Palms haven't done. Thus the Apple Eye for the PC Guy makeover will be extremely difficult. Even in the smartphone department, the SE P900 is f$%^ing sweet. Improving it would be VERY difficult.

So what does this all mean? Apple has their work cut out for them. In the past they have relied on relaunching old ideas in a fresh, well integrated, and easy to use package. The problem? Everyone else has caught on. Tech was once geek, Apple made it chic. But now what?

Launch a PDA?
Pros- Good groundwork (I have still never seen anything close to the accuracy of the Newton HWR), would have great design, effortless sycing and communication with Apple products, considered a must have type fo device by nearly all that carry them.
Cons- Design is limited by form facator, which is limited by currently available tech, which is being excellently eploited by other companies, very late to the game, anti-PDA Jobs-onian leadership, most people that need them, already have them.

But note that the digital hub lacks two very important secondary hubs - mobile and home entertainment integration hubs. MP3s on your computer are nice. On your stereo - nicer. Games and videos on your mac are nice. On your plasma? Much nicer.

If you have't caught on by now, I'll just spit it out. Apple and Sony need to collide. Think about it. Sony is the only REAL competition threat to Apple in the design front, they are the only ones willing to take big design risks, which usually pay off, and their entire computer line, aside from their Clies and maybe a VAIO or two, is drek. They have all the vision in the world on the integration of media and computers, and the resources to take advantage of all the aspects Apple lacks - home theatre, digital imaging, digital video, and phones. The pieces of the puzzle fit _perfectly_. Both have their fanboys, which is more than enough to say, bring Apple back from the dead with the iMac, and keep the idiotically priced MemoryStick popular. And where's Sony's HD based MP3 player? None exist. Today they announced a video/audio HD based player. Notice how they each try to avoid each others markets?

I know rumors are out there on the topic, but if you look at the way things have progressed over the past few years, you have to start thinking that this is not coincidence. Maybe Apple is shying away from anything Sony-like because the competition would be so fierce. But both are respecting the other's boundaries.

I think an Apple-Sony Alliance would be the single most powerful technology lifestyle alignment. I really had to grapple for words to even describe it. They could easily own the entire electronics makeup of many, many houses.

The infomercial:
Bobby's G5 desktop is streaming MP3s and mpegs to the family PSX wirelessly (which is also the DVR and DVD player). He downloads a couple DVRed episodes of the Simpsons, inserts his sister's head on Marge's shoulders in iMovie and sends the video back to the Sony Plasma to play in the PIP, invoking a screech from his sister. He gets a call on his SonyApple smartphone, (caller ID appears on your TV and PC screen if you like). It's Billy from down the street! Bobby gets off the cell, (save your minutes, Bobby) and up pops the iChat window as the iSight camera clicks on. What's that Billy? A challenge? To the Sony Plasma, where the Sony PSX has received the challenge from Bobby's G5. Up pops EyeToy, and Bobby swats badgers back and forth at Billy, or whatever weirdo games that thing plays. Uh oh, time for homework - back to the computer to do that faux studying that usually involves some animated dinosaur on an unbranded web browser! In walks dad. The BT from his iClie smartphone syncs up his date book as he enters the room, and a reminder appears on the Plasma, along with his missed calls. He almost forgot! Bobby has a soccer game! Off to the park (but not before the stock quotes and daily news are silently updated on Dad's iClie smartphone). Dad grabs the Sony Handycam, decides to use the iClie smartphone for some quick snaps of the game. Oh, and the iPod for music. Because children playing soccer is fun for 20 seconds. Then you realize that it's pretty much a bunch of underdeveloped animals hoping seizure-like movements knock the ball in the goal enough times that dad doesn't have to make up a childhood that never existed to calm the aforementioned, now sobbing and buggery, animal. Dad and Bobby get home. Billy calls to gloat over the soccer game. Bobby hacks Billy's AIBO, and Billy falls to the ground in pain as the mechanical dog munches at his nads. Father and son laugh as the image fades out.

Anyway, my $.02, but I think it's closer to a good $1.50.
Brandon
 
Wow. You...ummm...obviously put a lot of thought- and time- into that post. I found it quite interesting, though. (Oh, and welcome to the community.)

A Sony-Apple alliance? Very interesting, indeed. (Has this been in the rumor mill for ages?) So, would Sony continue to produce Windows-equipped PCs in this Brave New World? If so, and if your take on Jobs is accurate, I can't see it happening- Bill would still get his $ for every Sony-Apple PC sold...and Steve wouldn't like that.

Hmmm...very interesting, though.

Squire
 
Originally posted by electric
I dont need a new Newton, my 2100 is working great, a tad bit over sized but extreamly reliable, infact I just used mine this morning for an alarm clock. Does anybody know where I can find these screen saver/covers ? mine is about 3 years old.=
Here are Newton screen protectors:

http://www.nushield.com/products_main_newton.htm

I've used my beaten, battered Newton 2100 rigorously every single day since 1998. My 2100 can use 802.11, connect to my desktops via VNC, sync with iCal, Address Book, and Entourage, and can play MP3 files and streams.

I'd buy a new one in a heartbeat, but, until then, I'll keep using this one until it disintegrates.
 
Originally posted by Squire
Wow. You...ummm...obviously put a lot of thought- and time- into that post. I found it quite interesting, though. (Oh, and welcome to the community.)

A Sony-Apple alliance? Very interesting, indeed. (Has this been in the rumor mill for ages?) So, would Sony continue to produce Windows-equipped PCs in this Brave New World? If so, and if your take on Jobs is accurate, I can't see it happening- Bill would still get his $ for every Sony-Apple PC sold...and Steve wouldn't like that.

Hmmm...very interesting, though.

Squire

Haha thanx. I had a long day, and for some reason I've been bombarded by Apple stuff the last 3 days. I think the whole Newton topic set me off. :)

As far as Sony's PCs - Nope. Sony would drop their PCs. Remember that Sony also takes after Apple in that they try to integrate their products with decent, funky looking software. Remember that Sony is not afraid to take risks, like their Crusoe machines and AMD PCs. Everyone in the PC world knows that they can't keep up in the PC race. Their markup is way too high for what ppl can get elsewhere.

Brandon
 
used to own a couple newtons
the last being the 2100
sweet machine at the time I was working for HP and they gave me Jornados and a 620 (think it was the 620) anyway when I would pull it out and use it for notes etc.. everyone would ooohhh and aahhhh at how good the handwriting was on it and how cool it was to drag the text around and put it in outlines etc..

hmmmmm seems to me MS is just catching up to that now with there new notes program ;) hehehhe

anyway I would love a Newton II device about the same form factor with a great color screen etc..
would be killer as a Pro photographer would be double cool to dl images to it to check them out more and have a portable device to save to and use as a preview device etc...

while the Newton was a touch bigger it offered so much more than a Palm could (which also I have used a lot and still have one)
but they are not the same thing and with the smaller notebook style features I think Apple could do well with them

just my thoughts ;)

ahhhhh I miss my old Newtons :(
 
Originally posted by JohnStrass
Actually, the 2100 was the last version. I bought it 1 week after the opening of the Apple store on -line, with Jobs saying "oh, thats so cool, I have to buy two". Then he killed it 2 months later.

Anyhow, it still gives me smile when I dust it off, but its dead now. It was ideal as a laptop replacement, EXTREMELY lightweight, great add-on keyborard.

I really should give it away so some fanatic who would give it a loving home...

Why will Apple never produce a handheld: you said it above, "It was ideal as a laptop replacement..." Too much profit in selling iBooks.

And with the strength of the iPod as a platform, there is no way they'd release anything that could erode those sales either.
 
For those asking about 3G W-CDMA networks (I don't consider the cdma2000 networks 3G, they're really 2.5G, as they only have 50K data transfer, W-CDMA has 384kbps), it currently is available in Japan under the names NTT DoCoMo FOMA, and vodafone Global Standard. It is also available in Europe as well. AT&T will introduce 3G next year here in the US.
 
Originally posted by chazmox
Yes, add a 20-40Gig hardrive, OS X lite, and maybe 3G and/or WiFi ( I saw the mention of something wireless but not the spec it supported ) and I think you have something there!
http://www.tapwave.com/product/overview.asp

Bluetooth (small chipsize and low power usage).

I agree with previous poster that stated OS X lite is a bad idea... it would require so much to be stripped out of it (Quartz Extreme for one).

1-2GB microdrive (Sony....) with a Newton type OS would be fine if we are talking a PDA-centric device. 20-40GB if we are talking iPod-centric.

3G would be good... FW of course. I think I heard a rumor elsewhere of a combo BT/802.11x chip coming soon...? Not sure though...

So....

*** The new iPod ***

40/60/80 GB
BT
FW800
color touch screen (~4 inches)
Newton OS of some sort (stylus or finger operated)

ability to play mp3, AAC, ogg, aiff, and wav audio files. ability to play mov, mpg, flash and other video files. display jpg, bmp, tiff, etc. iLife apps of some sort, QT-lite, AppleWorks-lite, iCal, iSync, etc etc


have to go back to work......
 
A longshot but...

I realize it is a longshot for the Apple PDA...but I would buy one in a snap. I have never owned a Palm Pilot, etc, not because I don't want one or need one, but because it is not Apple™. Apple could introduce one into the market and it would be a success for years to come even without updates or revisions.

Similarily, the original 5GB iPod is better than everything else out there.

My thought is that iPod sales would go down if a PDA was introduced and I wonder if it would just take the place of the iPod all together?

Think 3 years from now...
 
Re: Hell Freezing over II

Originally posted by SiliconAddict

Damn Jobs for killing my baby :( Damn him and his arrogant attitude. One of three things will need to happen before the Newton returns.
1. Jobs dies.
2. Jobs retires.
3. A massive coup by all the Newton fans still out there.

I vote for number 3, who's with me?

An Apple PDA.....that would be neat, and Apple could do it! I'd buy one.
 
Originally posted by iPC

*** The new iPod ***

40/60/80 GB
BT
FW800
color touch screen (~4 inches)
Newton OS of some sort (stylus or finger operated)

ability to play mp3, AAC, ogg, aiff, and wav audio files. ability to play mov, mpg, flash and other video files. display jpg, bmp, tiff, etc. iLife apps of some sort, QT-lite, AppleWorks-lite, iCal, iSync, etc etc


have to go back to work......

This is impossible.

This would require miniture hard drive prices to drop in price *dramatically* which isn't going to happen that soon.

Remember, not every one makes enough to buy a $799.00 80 GB iPod.

Plus, video? I don't think Apple is going in that direction ever. The iPod is for audiophiles. What next, the iVid for videophiles?

:) :rolleyes:
 
I think a new Apple PDA would be nice to see, but probably not worth the investment to produce and market unless it appears to have new selling points unavailable on Palm devices. I think better choices would be an Apple phone and tablet.

The phone could include PDA functions that are also available on other recent phones. iSync would of course be incorporated. A still image camera would be a weak addition, but a video camera that can also take still images would be amazing when combined with 3G. If this phone were also made compatible with iChatAV they should sell very well and boost Mac sales.

The technology already exists. I saw video cellular phones available for sale in Japan about four years ago. The phones had a bw lcd screen and a tiny camera in the face of the phone. You held it in front of your face to talk via video. You could also of course use it as a normal phone on the side of your face when using audio only. The 3G based connection would also be nice for a high speed internet connection when attached to a Powerbook or in a minibrowser on the phone.

I believe that Apple should let an experienced telephony company such as Sony or Nokia make many of the components in order to leverage their experience in this field. Then both Apple and the other company would sell their own models. This would allow Apple to help set the standard for the next generation of communications devices with only modest investment and huge profit potential.
 
An Apple PDA would be really nice, and would be a great replacement for my MP 120 ;). If I had the money for one then I would almost definatly buy it. I'm not going to get my hopes up because people have had their hopes up since 1997, but hey the 2004 superbowl is 20 years from 84 and would be good for an awesome commercial and and an awesome product relaunch (or not.)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dvorak's postualtions

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Ya a really crappy keyboad IMHO. I spend 5 minutes looking for each letter when I have to go to our graphics department for tech support. I ended up putting VNC on their system so I can do it remotely.

That's because you're used to qwerty. Dvorak is a much better layout once you actually start using it. (If you can get past the extreme torture of changing your keyboard layout. It definately gets worse before it gets better.)
 
superbowl

The superbowl would be an excellent roll out for our Apple iPad. Gsm or cdma, bluetooth headset and synch. No compromises on the Os. It's the latest Panther build, able to run very well on a fast G3+altivec thank you. This will bring even more os X developers in. The wifi card would be optional, as the standard is changing in the Pda market. It's a new security protocol that is not currently being sold by the manufactures as I understand it. I think t-mobile is changing their hotspots to this as well. I don't see this being about handwriting recognition, although it will be in there. I would really prefer a thumboard + pad. Using a full size bluetooth mouse and keyboard will be possible. Please include a foveon lens camera, able to capture vid and still. Let it work with ichat. If you can develope pixies, you can compress my talking head over gsm. There's more, but what's the point.... It's just killing me slowly.
 
A few things:

1. Steve tried to buy out Palm after taking Apple back, for reasons still unknown.
2. The Newton was Sculley's big idea. Steve hates Sculley.


Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Ya a really crappy keyboad IMHO. I spend 5 minutes looking for each letter when I have to go to our graphics department for tech support. I ended up putting VNC on their system so I can do it remotely.

Anything you're not used to sucks automatically?
 
Hope not!

Just bought a second hand MP 2100, can't afford a new Apple PDA!!!
just joking, I will be first in queue to buy a new iPDA especially if they put together iPod, FM Radio, Media/QT Player (no phone please) and a nice MacOS X.3 GUI...

Giorgio
 
Apple PDA ain't gonna happen.

The PDA market is stagnant. Handspring couldn't even make it with their outstanding Treo product. Apple would be foolish to spend millions to enter the fray. Sure Palm OS isn't perfect, but it works. And works well.
Now bringing back the Newton as a tablet PC. there's a market just looking for the right product to make it take off. I had a doctors appt. a couple of weeks ago and the Doc and all the nurses were running around with tablet PCs. Apple could own this market.
 
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