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But do you send out public betas to thousands of users without mentioning removed functionality?

I mean, is a beta not a fantastic way to deliver something so fundamental to a large and loud, but not core, audience? And one that is willing to risk major bugs, let alone major feature shifts. I think changing it there with the answer, "We intended it," after some speculation gave them the response they were looking for to make the call either way.
 
I'm fairly certain Apple did not pull this feature out JUST to make improvements. As a matter of fact that defeats the purpose of BETA TESTING functionality or improvements.

What happened here is like an eye exam when they put a lens (feature), then take it away and see if
1. Got better
2. Got worst
3. No change

Clearly 2. applied in this case and it was simply put back. Apple can sugar coat it the way they like but its clear by giving such a specific statement that its a test

Not so. Beta testing does not always test the 'whole software package' every time in every release ESPECIALLY if internal testing has identified an issue. Rather than delay testing the new functionality/code, the offending code is often removed/disabled whilst a solution is found and then reinstalled/reenabled in a later release.
 
My point is that if you're a professional beta software tester among relatively few fellow professional beta software testers, then there can be unwritten understandings about features being suspended and added back in later. These are experts.

If you have a public beta, which potentially any interested lay-person can install, then you need to do a better job of communicating that a feature that ordinary users have come to rely on has disappeared temporarily. That way, you mitigate the chance of a vociferous deluge of feedback asking for that feature to be reinstated, and you don't need to contact tech sites to reassure everyone when it explodes on the Internet.

The fact that Apple didn't make this clear much earlier makes me think that they hadn't originally intended to put this feature back.
 
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I've worked with Apple for over 20 years and have countless friends and contacts that work within the company. Yes, some of us can simply ask and get an answer. Why is that such an impossible concept for some to understand? So yes, I did know it was coming back rather than simply guessing.

Yep. And my Dad works at Nintendo! So I KNOW Mario can jump over the flagpole! It gives you, like, A MILLION-BILLION points!

I'm not saying your assertions are not true. Just letting you know what it sounds like on an Internet forum, especially after the outcome is known.
 
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I'm really enjoying mine. I've been using iOS on iPad or phone almost exclusively for about four years now. The bigger form factor of the Pro makes the split-screen multitasking practical, and it makes using it with external keyboard practical. The 9.7" iPad was too small for me to use with a keyboard. At the same time, I can still use the Pro to read in bed or wherever.

The extra RAM + fast processor means apps are almost always ready to go when I switch to them. It works even better than I expected.

I may still yet get the big iPad Pro someday. It's just so intriguing. I'm just hesitant as I had the same feeling about the iPhone Plus and ended up hating it over time. The Pencil is the big deciding factor for me on getting it now or the Air 3 or maybe Air 4 next year.

If at some point I can use the Pro to easily do my day-to-day work then it's a no-brainer as it's much smaller than a MacBook. I find myself using my personal MacBook Pro less and less. But I also have a decently spec'd iMac at work with admin rights that I can use for pretty much anything. I do mostly creative work on my personal Mac (Lightroom, Premiere, Photoshop, Illustrator) so that might translate to an iPad Pro quicker than the web development and web/app design work that I do on my iMac which is a lot more complex using apps like CodeKit for compiling SASS and Virtual Box for testing, among various other apps and specialized utilities and a full file system. I doubt iOS will ever allow third party browser engines, which means I can never truly test Chrome and Firefox which means I'll always need a Mac. I can use Coda on my iPad all day but I'll never know if it looks good across all browsers and the web inspector will never be up to snuff with desktop apps.
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But the pencil's the big thing, would be very surprised if the air 3 gets it.

iPad sales have been in decline. Apple needs to do everything they can to prevent that. They would sell more Pencils if the Air 3 supported it. Ahrendts has been really pushing accessory sales since coming aboard. For instance Apple had stopped selling docks and now they're back. The Watch is all about accessories.
 
Beta testing is exactly that. Putting stuff in and taking some out, possibly to add functionality, or maybe to "fix"an problem. In this case it is across a range of devices that have differing function and controls, not to mention the different ways and apps the devices used. Do you think that's simple.

The function to use the pencil as a stylus, is probably a small part, and only affects the ipp. Devs probably realise that their betas are not to be fully relied on. Public betas are set to a different set of users.

Apple needs feedback. Preferably as unbiased as possible. And beyond guiding what they would like testing, they are defeating the object of the excercise if they lay everything on the line.

I have been public beta testing for while. Os as well as iOS, and if what feedback I give back is helpfully to a better system. Well that's OK by me, even if I have a few quirks pop up. But that's the idea isn't it?

If you don't want to be a tester. Don't install the betas. And if you do, please keep a sense of proportion.

I have lost some functionality on my ipp pencil. It's in my report. Beyond that. I have some ideas why the stylus functionality was limited. But if it is brought back into the full version, I am ok with that, cos the ipp is better for my use than I thought it would be.
 
That's what "supposed" means.

Well, that's what its supposed to mean, so you might be right.

Pro tip: common English usage rarely adheres to the narrow definitions used in formal logic and mathematics. In reality, there's a difference between "that was supposed to be strawberry flavour" and "suppose that points A B and C lie on a plane in Euclidian space".
 
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Not so. Beta testing does not always test the 'whole software package' every time in every release ESPECIALLY if internal testing has identified an issue. Rather than delay testing the new functionality/code, the offending code is often removed/disabled whilst a solution is found and then reinstalled/reenabled in a later release.

I never said beta testing tests the whole software package. I didn't even say it tests half of it. Also there was no indication that the original implementation of this feature had any issues as per "ESPECIALLY if internal testing"

In this particular case, the features were ALREADY present, even if they added "new functionality/code" and didn't want to release it, they could have used the original implementation or reverted back to original functionality (thats why we have version control).

In my opinion, this was either intentionally taken out based on a decision or taken out as a test to be potentially put back based on negative feedback. This is how I would have done it with my apps. Unless the original implementation was buggy, there would be no reason for me to take it out unless I intentionally wanted to or I'm testing without the functionality to gauge user feedback. If I was testing a variant with additional functionality/improvements, I would most recently test it in BETA and NOT remove it.
 
Apple made the statement so fast because of the public outcry. When Macrumors, Serenity Caldwell, and John Gruber are writing their opinion on it, it's hit the Mac scene big.
LOL! I seriously doubt it.

Apple never intended for this UI tweak to go away permanently. Point me to an Apple Source that said this was going to happen in the final release. Instead we read from the sources you cite above who say they talked to "somebody in the know".

Again, LOL!. Stupid tech media wanting everyone to believe they're all special insiders. :)
 
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Pro tip: common English usage rarely adheres to the narrow definitions used in formal logic and mathematics. In reality, there's a difference between "that was supposed to be strawberry flavour" and "suppose that points A B and C lie on a plane in Euclidian space".
Okay, but I don't think that's the problem here. A term like beta software isn't mathematically strict defined, but it is defined none the less.

From your linked Wikipedia page: "Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs."

The keyword here is generally, which means in most cases beta software is feature complete, because testing the new features and eliminating bugs is what beta software is all about. But in some cases for some reason beta software might also not be feature complete with the final version. That's why we can not assume that a missing feature is gone for good, only that it could be gone. After all it could just be a bug fixing that caused the feature to disappear in one beta version and reappear in the next. Not everything happening in a beta is a conscious final decision by Apple.
 
Yep. And my Dad works at Nintendo! So I KNOW Mario can jump over the flagpole! It gives you, like, A MILLION-BILLION points!

I'm not saying your assertions are not true. Just letting you know what it sounds like on an Internet forum, especially after the outcome is known.

It's fine if people here don't believe, they can continue to get information from those making educate guesses, rather than directly from Apple employees. Doesn't impact me.

But is it hard to believe that people that have worked in the Apple business for more than 20 years, worked directly with Apple for years, work with those that have been in the Apple journalism business (MacWorld, Mac Addict and others), etc, could be friends with those that work at Apple and will comment on things from time to time? This isn't some crazy secret they let loose. It was simply, "Don't worry, it'll be back by the release." Believe what you like I guess.

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, so when you said "smart" people knew.... what you ACTUALLY meant was "people that got told". Gotcha!
And out of curiosity... when Myke got info from HIS Apple guy, what made him not know that it wasn't coming back??
If both opposing bits of info came from an Apple employee & they both can't be right- again, nobody can KNOW.
If you don't want to apologize for pretending like you're smart & sneering at others... fine.
(though your silly backpedal change of story admits you didn't figure anything out or do ANYTHING clever whatsoever... supposedly you just got fed info from inside sources)
Soooooo.... if I get the fix on a horse & win the bet... should I crow on about how all the "smart" people KNEW it was going to win?????!
Check your logic.

You write like a high school kid.

Re-read the article. It never said that it was a permanent change. That's exactly what I said in the original thread and yet people argued it was. No one ever said it was permanent or would carry through to the release version. Not Myke or myself. There was nothing opposing about what was said. Myke said it was a choice by Apple to leave it out in the latest beta. I said it would return later. Both of our statements were correct.
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LOL! I seriously doubt it.

Apple never intended for this UI tweak to go away permanently. Point me to an Apple Source that said this was going to happen in the final release. Instead we read from the sources you cite above who say they talked to "somebody in the know".

Again, LOL!. Stupid tech media wanting everyone to believe they're all special insiders. :)

And MacRumors and others didn't seem to read the actual statement. There was nothing said about it never returning. It was simply that the lack of it in the current betas wasn't an accident. They never said it wouldn't return before the release or in future betas.

Instead the villagers lit their torches and cried in protest without really understanding what was said. Pretty common sadly.
 
And MacRumors and others didn't seem to read the actual statement. There was nothing said about it never returning. It was simply that the lack of it in the current betas wasn't an accident. They never said it wouldn't return before the release or in future betas.

Instead the villagers lit their torches and cried in protest without really understanding what was said. Pretty common sadly.

Can you really blame users for Apple's horrible communication? They put out beta after beta and kept silent on their intention on whether removal of feature was temporary, what are users supposed to expect? This is a public beta, why not be a bit more communicative?

You have to keep in mind there is growing distrust of much of what Apple is doing lately, they keep removing and dumbing down UI, hence it was not surprising that Apple could pull such a move.

Last but not least, should we really fuel a notion that users cry and Apple can never do no wrong? It seems we should have some balance right?

Speaking of which I'm so glad Apple listened to public outcry regarding Error 53, ie brickgate. Oh wait, was that supposed to be temporary too?
 
Can you really blame users for Apple's horrible communication? They put out beta after beta and kept silent on their intention on whether removal of feature was temporary, what are users supposed to expect? This is a public beta, why not be a bit more communicative?

You have to keep in mind there is growing distrust of much of what Apple is doing lately, they keep removing and dumbing down UI, hence it was not surprising that Apple could pull such a move.

Last but not least, should we really fuel a notion that users cry and Apple can never do no wrong? It seems we should have some balance right?

Speaking of which I'm so glad Apple listened to public outcry regarding Error 53, ie brickgate. Oh wait, was that supposed to be temporary too?
The issue with error 53 or more specifically what it started causing after an update was in relation to what was essentially a bug, so Apple addressing it isn't really them changing their mind about something, but them investigating a problem and fixing it.
 
The issue with error 53 or more specifically what it started causing after an update was in relation to what was essentially a bug, so Apple addressing it isn't really them changing their mind about something, but them investigating a problem and fixing it.

It was intentional, not a bug, per Apple spokesperson:

"We protect fingerprint data using a secure enclave, which is uniquely paired to the touch ID sensor. When iPhone is serviced by an authorised Apple service provider or Apple retail store for changes that affect the touch ID sensor, the pairing is re-validated. This check ensures the device and the iOS features related to touch ID remain secure. Without this unique pairing, a malicious touch ID sensor could be substituted, thereby gaining access to the secure enclave. When iOS detects that the pairing fails, touch ID, including Apple Pay, is disabled so the device remains secure."
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/08/apple-error-53-lawsuits-and-repairs/

And don't forget a bunch of guys here defended Apple's move to death.
 
It was intentional, not a bug, per Apple spokesperson:

"We protect fingerprint data using a secure enclave, which is uniquely paired to the touch ID sensor. When iPhone is serviced by an authorised Apple service provider or Apple retail store for changes that affect the touch ID sensor, the pairing is re-validated. This check ensures the device and the iOS features related to touch ID remain secure. Without this unique pairing, a malicious touch ID sensor could be substituted, thereby gaining access to the secure enclave. When iOS detects that the pairing fails, touch ID, including Apple Pay, is disabled so the device remains secure."
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/08/apple-error-53-lawsuits-and-repairs/

And don't forget a bunch of guys here defended Apple's move to death.
Per Apple:

"Some customers' devices are showing 'Connect to iTunes' after attempting an iOS update or a restore from iTunes on a Mac or PC. This reports as an Error 53 in iTunes and appears when a device fails a security test. This test was designed to check whether Touch ID works properly before the device leaves the factory.

Today, Apple released a software update that allows customers who have encountered this error message to successfully restore their device using iTunes on a Mac or PC.

We apologize for any inconvenience, this was designed to be a factory test and was not intended to affect customers. Customers who paid for an out-of-warranty replacement of their device based on this issue should contact AppleCare about a reimbursement."

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/18/apple-ios-9-2-1-error-53-fix/
 
Per Apple:

"Some customers' devices are showing 'Connect to iTunes' after attempting an iOS update or a restore from iTunes on a Mac or PC. This reports as an Error 53 in iTunes and appears when a device fails a security test. This test was designed to check whether Touch ID works properly before the device leaves the factory.

Today, Apple released a software update that allows customers who have encountered this error message to successfully restore their device using iTunes on a Mac or PC.

We apologize for any inconvenience, this was designed to be a factory test and was not intended to affect customers. Customers who paid for an out-of-warranty replacement of their device based on this issue should contact AppleCare about a reimbursement."

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/18/apple-ios-9-2-1-error-53-fix/

So why in their earlier statement did Apple say it's intentional to keep iPhone secure, and then backtrack saying it's a "test"? Could it be the public backlash, lawsuits etc?
 
You write like a high school kid.

Re-read the article. It never said that it was a permanent change. That's exactly what I said in the original thread and yet people argued it was. No one ever said it was permanent or would carry through to the release version. Not Myke or myself. There was nothing opposing about what was said. Myke said it was a choice by Apple to leave it out in the latest beta. I said it would return later. Both of our statements were correct.
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And MacRumors and others didn't seem to read the actual statement. There was nothing said about it never returning. It was simply that the lack of it in the current betas wasn't an accident. They never said it wouldn't return before the release or in future betas.

Instead the villagers lit their torches and cried in protest without really understanding what was said. Pretty common sadly.


Ok, pal.
I accept that explanation! =)

Now PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE either explain the reason you 1st said your snide uppity "smart people knew" comment, then COMPLETELY backtracked on it & changed it to: "I personally knew, because I was fed insider info", or just apologize for grandstanding & acting all superior for no reason whatsoever.

EDIT:
(Or were ALL "smart" people fed the same insider information as you?? ;0) )
 
I really think apple is a different company than what it used to be and this is another example of apple listening to it's user base.

Apple has made some cuts in the form of IO and ports that weren't popular but were based on the future of tech but that confidence over spilled into the software side with all the dumbing down of apps in OS X to match iOS, i think though they learned their lesson and might actually be turning a corner, where they listen and implement public feedback and ideas.

Just look at the public beta programmes for all the different OS's, it's a changed company.
 
Apple: "We believe a finger will always be the primary way users navigate on an iPad, but we understand that some customers like to use Apple Pencil for this as well and we've been working on ways to better implement this while maintaining compatibility during this latest beta cycle," a spokesperson said. "We will add this functionality back in the next beta of iOS 9.3."

Likely translation: We were trying to limit the use of the Stylus for its intended usage only, so as not to have users prematurely wear them out and thus limit possibly huge numbers of warranty replacements, but we underestimated how much our users have become accustomed to their convenience and pin-point accuracy, so we'll cave and re-enable the feature.
 
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So why in their earlier statement did Apple say it's intentional to keep iPhone secure, and then backtrack saying it's a "test"? Could it be the public backlash, lawsuits etc?
Seems like the earlier statement was in relation to TouchID and related functions and not the whole device "bricking", and with the update that Apple has released they are still disabling TouchID in relation to error 53, the device itself is just no longer getting "bricked".
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Apple: "We believe a finger will always be the primary way users navigate on an iPad, but we understand that some customers like to use Apple Pencil for this as well and we've been working on ways to better implement this while maintaining compatibility during this latest beta cycle," a spokesperson said. "We will add this functionality back in the next beta of iOS 9.3."

Likely translation: We were trying to limit the use of the Stylus for its intended usage only, so as not to have users prematurely wear them out and thus limit possibly huge numbers of warranty replacements, but we underestimated how much our users have become accustomed to their convenience and pin-point accuracy, so we'll cave and re-enable the feature.
While possible, the actual provided explanation seems no less (if not more) likely.
 
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