AvSRoCkCO1067
macrumors 65816
nem3015 said:
60 GB Flash Memory....and 12x Optical Zoom?
Howabout 2 GB of Flash Memory and...probably no optical zoom 🙁
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Apple Phone In August?
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60 GB Flash Memory....and 12x Optical Zoom?
Howabout 2 GB of Flash Memory and...probably no optical zoom 🙁
No apple event?
I think something as big as a phone from Apple warrants its own apple campus coming out party. That there isn't one scheduled points in the direction of no phone in August. That said,
GIMME A PHONE! PLEASE! MY PHONE SUX SO FREAKIN BAD. C'MON APPLE! AUGUST!
I think something as big as a phone from Apple warrants its own apple campus coming out party. That there isn't one scheduled points in the direction of no phone in August. That said,
GIMME A PHONE! PLEASE! MY PHONE SUX SO FREAKIN BAD. C'MON APPLE! AUGUST!
Ollie Lee
macrumors newbie
I think an iPhone isn't going to be about exhaustive functions, but competition. All this talk of a PDA type product is just wishful thinking for another Newton. As I see it, an iPhone is not the next logical step for Apple, but one they are being forced into by the massively popular song playing mobile phones, particularly Sony Ericssons.
It has been said in this thread before, that Apple will not be able to burst into the mobile phone market, and with its first phone overthrow the big existing players. Even the iPod had to gain momentum. An iPhone will be to stop would-be Nano buyers opting for a rival brand's phone with the same song capacity.
MP3 phones, generally speaking, are not popular with the type of people who want full PDA capability. Maybe a few years down the line, Apple will be able to take what it learns from a consumer iPhone and build on that with a pro version. If that happens, it will be about Apple providing a sleek and powerful PDA for business users, certainly not an überPod. But until then, it makes no sense to cram functions into a phone - just the required level to compete with existing products: phone calls, SMS, camera, video player (NOT an iPod video, just capability to play short clips) etc.
I also doubt that Apple will attach itself to one particular network. To me it makes sense to sell this SIM-free, for quite a few reasons. First, it allows users already bound into contracts to continue using it without incurring extra charges or having to change their number.
Even if people are out of contract, it gives them the choice to choose whichever network they want. The situation with network reliablity is a lot better here in Europe than in the US, but still people will require a certain network for the best service. When I'm at work, T Mobile might work fine for me, but if it doesn't when I'm at home then it's useless to be with that network. A SIM free phone would let me stay with O2, and get a decent signal. We've heard stories like this throughout this thread - no single provider will please everybody.
Also, I think the iPhone will be sold from Apple stores much like an iPod - a couple of hundred pounds for a empty product, that you put in your own music or in this case, SIM card. For me the biggest advantage is the international market; if the iPhone has a SIM card slot, then it will sell anywhere in the world. International Apple users often complain about a lack of focus outside of the US, but this is mainly with iTMS content, where each country will mean different licensing laws and a tweak to Apple's business model. However, whenever we see a new iPod or Mac, it is available in Europe and Canada at the same time as the US. And so if the iPhone is SIM free, then it is ready to launch anywhere in the world, not just where Apple negotiates a deal with a particular network. Let's not forget, international sales accounted for 39 percent of Apple's 3rd Quarter revenue this year - so if the only thing they need to make an iPhone international is different chargers, then they will.
I wouldn't say the iPhone will come at WWDC, the evidence isn't anywhere near convincing enough. But it could do, and there aren't any obvious reasons why not. Apple has to move to stop people who would buy iPods from buying phones that can stores as many songs in an equally sleek and easy to use product. But they don't need to offer an 'iNewton' to satisfy Mac Geeks.
It has been said in this thread before, that Apple will not be able to burst into the mobile phone market, and with its first phone overthrow the big existing players. Even the iPod had to gain momentum. An iPhone will be to stop would-be Nano buyers opting for a rival brand's phone with the same song capacity.
MP3 phones, generally speaking, are not popular with the type of people who want full PDA capability. Maybe a few years down the line, Apple will be able to take what it learns from a consumer iPhone and build on that with a pro version. If that happens, it will be about Apple providing a sleek and powerful PDA for business users, certainly not an überPod. But until then, it makes no sense to cram functions into a phone - just the required level to compete with existing products: phone calls, SMS, camera, video player (NOT an iPod video, just capability to play short clips) etc.
I also doubt that Apple will attach itself to one particular network. To me it makes sense to sell this SIM-free, for quite a few reasons. First, it allows users already bound into contracts to continue using it without incurring extra charges or having to change their number.
Even if people are out of contract, it gives them the choice to choose whichever network they want. The situation with network reliablity is a lot better here in Europe than in the US, but still people will require a certain network for the best service. When I'm at work, T Mobile might work fine for me, but if it doesn't when I'm at home then it's useless to be with that network. A SIM free phone would let me stay with O2, and get a decent signal. We've heard stories like this throughout this thread - no single provider will please everybody.
Also, I think the iPhone will be sold from Apple stores much like an iPod - a couple of hundred pounds for a empty product, that you put in your own music or in this case, SIM card. For me the biggest advantage is the international market; if the iPhone has a SIM card slot, then it will sell anywhere in the world. International Apple users often complain about a lack of focus outside of the US, but this is mainly with iTMS content, where each country will mean different licensing laws and a tweak to Apple's business model. However, whenever we see a new iPod or Mac, it is available in Europe and Canada at the same time as the US. And so if the iPhone is SIM free, then it is ready to launch anywhere in the world, not just where Apple negotiates a deal with a particular network. Let's not forget, international sales accounted for 39 percent of Apple's 3rd Quarter revenue this year - so if the only thing they need to make an iPhone international is different chargers, then they will.
I wouldn't say the iPhone will come at WWDC, the evidence isn't anywhere near convincing enough. But it could do, and there aren't any obvious reasons why not. Apple has to move to stop people who would buy iPods from buying phones that can stores as many songs in an equally sleek and easy to use product. But they don't need to offer an 'iNewton' to satisfy Mac Geeks.
New Phone from Verizon 8/7/06
Didn't read ALL the posts, but did anybody see the new ad from Verizon about their new phone to debut on 8/7? It is black with a slide out key board.
Didn't read ALL the posts, but did anybody see the new ad from Verizon about their new phone to debut on 8/7? It is black with a slide out key board.
April Dancer
macrumors regular
I think that's the key to it really, and why I think that an Apple phone is merely a matter of when. I have every iPod going. I can't exist without them. But I still have an SE W800 loaded up with music for when I can't take an iPod with me. If a Mac addict like me will go elsewhere from time to time then imagine how many people are buying up these phones that Apple could potentially snag.Ollie Lee said:
Dr.Gargoyle
macrumors 65816
Why???? It would be idiotic to restric sales to US only. Why not aim at the world market instead of just 300 milion people? I can't see the point in just aiming a product to one 20th of the potential customers. 😕gekko513 said:
Please elaborate.
I dont know why people keep thinking something like the iPhone would be like those PDA/phone mixies.
I would see the iPhone biggest selling point is it tieing with iTunes like the iPod currently does. I would think it would have around 1-2 gigs of memory in it and store music. It would not be one of those all in wonders like Blackberry and stuff.
Yeah I would expect it to tie in with iCal and Outlook (much like the iPod already currently does so that not an issue) but the biggest thing would be it would be something like the nano that is also a phone. It would sell pretty well.
As for people thinking it stupid to tie it in think about it this way. the phone is not ment to replace the iPod or things like that but a way to put some of your favorit music on the phone to listen to. Because ask you self this question
When you leave you house what are the 3 items you almost always make sure that are on you?
Answer: Car keys/keys, Wallet and Cell phone. If you noticed the iPod is not on that list or a lot of other small items. That is way a lot of people like the blackberry and things because it moves the Pda over to one of the 3 main items people always have on them.
For me as a college student I think it would be pretty cool to have my phone hold some of my favorit music to listen to at times. Not ment to replace my iPod but more to bring some of my music with me at all times to listen to. Sorry I dont carry my iPod on me very offen. It dead weight and I have more imporant items to make sure I have and things to focus on than on the off chance that i have a chance to listen to my iPod. But if some was on my phone it would be really cool since I almost always have my phone with me.
I would see the iPhone biggest selling point is it tieing with iTunes like the iPod currently does. I would think it would have around 1-2 gigs of memory in it and store music. It would not be one of those all in wonders like Blackberry and stuff.
Yeah I would expect it to tie in with iCal and Outlook (much like the iPod already currently does so that not an issue) but the biggest thing would be it would be something like the nano that is also a phone. It would sell pretty well.
As for people thinking it stupid to tie it in think about it this way. the phone is not ment to replace the iPod or things like that but a way to put some of your favorit music on the phone to listen to. Because ask you self this question
When you leave you house what are the 3 items you almost always make sure that are on you?
Answer: Car keys/keys, Wallet and Cell phone. If you noticed the iPod is not on that list or a lot of other small items. That is way a lot of people like the blackberry and things because it moves the Pda over to one of the 3 main items people always have on them.
For me as a college student I think it would be pretty cool to have my phone hold some of my favorit music to listen to at times. Not ment to replace my iPod but more to bring some of my music with me at all times to listen to. Sorry I dont carry my iPod on me very offen. It dead weight and I have more imporant items to make sure I have and things to focus on than on the off chance that i have a chance to listen to my iPod. But if some was on my phone it would be really cool since I almost always have my phone with me.
Just not seeing it
I've had arguments with people on the AI forums too, and I'm not seeing a way in which an Apple cellphone would work for them. The three "business models" for the device don't seem to suit Apple:
- They can sell it unsubsidized/unlocked. Their competitors will sell it subsidized, so they lose the iPod phone market.
- They can sell it subsidized, via Cingular et al. Cingular/Verizon will insist on "customizations" or else not subsidize it by any reasonable amount. The major carriers are infamous for their controlfreakery. If the phone fails to sell (and without a significant subsidy, it probably will languish compared to the competition), it'll get dropped by the carriers (and even if it doesn't...)
- They can start an MVNO (a virtual network piggybacking on top of an existing network) and sell the phone that way with their own choice of features. Hard to see this appealing to the mass market, especially if "Apple Mobile" has a grand total of three phones available, all of which are iPods.
By making a phone, they'd also be a small player in a large market. People choose MP3 players by comparing them, and likewise people choose phones the same way. Apple's "iPod phone" would have a limited market if it's as described, a phone and an iPod in one unit. Doing it this way would cause a dramatic loss in marketshare, as people chosing between the phones would pick not on the basis of which is the best MP3 player, but also which gets the best signals, which has the best talk quality, which has the best camera, the best video functions, etc.
The major argument for (aside from "I want it to happen") is that Apple is facing increased competition from mobile phones, as mobile phone makers realise that they can eliminate the competition for pocket space by selling a single device that does both. That's a very real problem. But an iPhone is not the real solution to that.
The real solution involves licensing. Apple providing iPod functionality to third parties. They kind of messed up the Motorola thing, but I know of at least one other alliance which will probably result in some kind of iPod/phone thing. Apple's not-so-secret weapons here are a music store and infrastructure, and a DRM scheme. It's probable that the iPod and iTunes also have some pull ("Announcing the Samsung M81920/a, with iPod(tm) technology" - who reading that wouldn't instantly know what Samsung M81920/a's major feature is?) This keeps Apple relevent and in control over the user experience while users themselves make the transition from separate players and phones to integrated devices.
I'm going to predict no cellphone this year from Apple. That's not to say you'll not get cellphones "with iPod technology", I think that's a definite some time in the next 12 months (even ignoring the ROKR.) But an Apple branded cellphone, designed and made primarily by Apple with Apple doing the marketing - nah.
If I'm wrong, I think Apple's making a giant mistake. An Apple cellphone would be their XBox, a project they'll be subsidizing for years trying to get marketshare in an industry alien to them.
I've had arguments with people on the AI forums too, and I'm not seeing a way in which an Apple cellphone would work for them. The three "business models" for the device don't seem to suit Apple:
- They can sell it unsubsidized/unlocked. Their competitors will sell it subsidized, so they lose the iPod phone market.
- They can sell it subsidized, via Cingular et al. Cingular/Verizon will insist on "customizations" or else not subsidize it by any reasonable amount. The major carriers are infamous for their controlfreakery. If the phone fails to sell (and without a significant subsidy, it probably will languish compared to the competition), it'll get dropped by the carriers (and even if it doesn't...)
- They can start an MVNO (a virtual network piggybacking on top of an existing network) and sell the phone that way with their own choice of features. Hard to see this appealing to the mass market, especially if "Apple Mobile" has a grand total of three phones available, all of which are iPods.
By making a phone, they'd also be a small player in a large market. People choose MP3 players by comparing them, and likewise people choose phones the same way. Apple's "iPod phone" would have a limited market if it's as described, a phone and an iPod in one unit. Doing it this way would cause a dramatic loss in marketshare, as people chosing between the phones would pick not on the basis of which is the best MP3 player, but also which gets the best signals, which has the best talk quality, which has the best camera, the best video functions, etc.
The major argument for (aside from "I want it to happen") is that Apple is facing increased competition from mobile phones, as mobile phone makers realise that they can eliminate the competition for pocket space by selling a single device that does both. That's a very real problem. But an iPhone is not the real solution to that.
The real solution involves licensing. Apple providing iPod functionality to third parties. They kind of messed up the Motorola thing, but I know of at least one other alliance which will probably result in some kind of iPod/phone thing. Apple's not-so-secret weapons here are a music store and infrastructure, and a DRM scheme. It's probable that the iPod and iTunes also have some pull ("Announcing the Samsung M81920/a, with iPod(tm) technology" - who reading that wouldn't instantly know what Samsung M81920/a's major feature is?) This keeps Apple relevent and in control over the user experience while users themselves make the transition from separate players and phones to integrated devices.
I'm going to predict no cellphone this year from Apple. That's not to say you'll not get cellphones "with iPod technology", I think that's a definite some time in the next 12 months (even ignoring the ROKR.) But an Apple branded cellphone, designed and made primarily by Apple with Apple doing the marketing - nah.
If I'm wrong, I think Apple's making a giant mistake. An Apple cellphone would be their XBox, a project they'll be subsidizing for years trying to get marketshare in an industry alien to them.
well it depends on which carrier you go with and how picky they want there customizition. Versizon is one of the worse to the point verizon wants there POS OS install on it. Which include messing with almost everything in the phone. The Razer from Verson has a ton of problems because of Verizon very poor OS. Cingular on the other hand let moto control the OS and just wanted the cingular splash. (and mybe a few icons and that is maybe)
Now lets look at cingular who mostly level the OS untouch minus a few things like the cingular sreen when start up (not really an issue) And maybe and I mean maybe an extra spot in the menu that send them to cingular stuff but really largely untouch.
Spirnt leaves the OS largely untouch. Looking though my sprint phone lets see I see a spash of some of sprint stuff and the only extra icon that is add is sprint vision icon but largely untouch and they let samsung control the OS.
Heck minus a few minor things with the spash screen an an icon or 2 it is exaclty like a friend my mins samsung Cingular phone (slight differn start up splash and different icon for cover the web other wise exactly the same).
Basicly it would come down to who would apple be willing to work with. Minus verizon the others are pretty open to letting apple control the OS. They would just want a few of there own spash screen and to have the phone locked (which cingular and Tmoble will give you the unlock code after you filled the 2year aggreement on the contract or willing to pay them off.
Now lets look at cingular who mostly level the OS untouch minus a few things like the cingular sreen when start up (not really an issue) And maybe and I mean maybe an extra spot in the menu that send them to cingular stuff but really largely untouch.
Spirnt leaves the OS largely untouch. Looking though my sprint phone lets see I see a spash of some of sprint stuff and the only extra icon that is add is sprint vision icon but largely untouch and they let samsung control the OS.
Heck minus a few minor things with the spash screen an an icon or 2 it is exaclty like a friend my mins samsung Cingular phone (slight differn start up splash and different icon for cover the web other wise exactly the same).
Basicly it would come down to who would apple be willing to work with. Minus verizon the others are pretty open to letting apple control the OS. They would just want a few of there own spash screen and to have the phone locked (which cingular and Tmoble will give you the unlock code after you filled the 2year aggreement on the contract or willing to pay them off.
l008com
macrumors regular
Timepass said:
The main issue is putting songs on the phone. Even cingular limits that on its iTunes phones. Apple would want unlimited, cingular wants $$$ if you are going to put music on your phone. I'd like to see Apple start their own phone company, that would be great I think. But I also think one of the smaller companies might strike a deal with apple to let people have unlimited access to their iPhones and in exchange the small company gets a bunch of new customers.
gekko513
macrumors 603
Because I've learned to not get my expectations up when it comes to new services. The recent example is Aspyr's US-only online store for Mac games.Dr.Gargoyle said:
I'm sure if Apple releases an iPhone, that it will offer many features and services that regular phones don't have, and whenever a new service is launched it takes years to get the paperwork ready to launch it in other countries, it seems.
l008com said:
does it cost money to put song on the Motola that works with iTunes that you get from cingalur. Some how I dont think so. So that punchs a hold in that theory (or any of the phones that allow you do that. I know in the past Cigalur phones that would plug into a PC and play MP3 would allow you to put mp3 on there and make it your ring tone)
l008com
macrumors regular
Timepass said:
The iTunes phones are limted to I think 200 songs. Most all other phones, you have to use the provider's pay service to load songs on, else use a memory card reader for those crappy little memory cards. With a verizon phone, they even want you to pay for a text message every time you load a photo from the camera in the phone to your computer.
l008com said:
Well that 200 limitation could be one moto put on there not cingular. As far as I can tell Cingalur doesnt force that stuff on the phone they carry. They didnt on sony's phones of any other that have the ablitly to take struff from computers.
Now sprint as far as I know does not carry any phones that can play Mp3 at all so that not an issue.
Verson well they are crap any how in the phone deparment and only run there own POS OS on there phones so yeah.
of the major cariar Verizon is the only one that forces those limition the others dont mess with the phone operation system and let the manufactor have free rein (minus locking the phone to one carrir and there respect logo splash at start up)
Mal
macrumors 603
Timepass said:
It's a 100 song limitation for both the SLVR and the ROKR, and it's imposed by Cingular. I know, I work for them (well, kinda, I work for RadioShack). It's only on the iTunes phones too, because Cingular's music store doesn't work so they need some incentive to drive people to their own store.
Sprint carries 3 phones now designed very specifically for music, the Blade (Samsung A900), the Fusic (LG), and the Samsung A920 (no catchy name). All three come with the cables for MP3 downloads from the computer, and all three have no cap on their music except the amount of storage available (both the A920 and the Fusic are expandable, the Blade is not).
Verizon's OS is actually superior to the Motorola one, and is only limited in the Bluetooth (which Verizon is infamous for), but is otherwise a very good phone. It's superior in other ways as well, and has fewer problems from what I've seen (one of our employees chose to keep his Verizon RAZR even after we no longer carried Verizon for that reason). On the whole, no, Verizon's phones are not the best, but the RAZR is probably the exception to that.
That said, there's no reason why any of this should factor into the decisions about an Apple Phone. They won't (or at least shouldn't) subsidize the phone through Verizon or Sprint, and probably not through Cingular or T-Mobile either, because no matter what limitations are put on the phone itself, the carriers won't allow music downloads without additional charges of their own, which Apple wouldn't want. No, it'll either connect only to the computer, or it'll be an MVNO, which I think is unlikely. SIM-free, Wifi and USB for loading music on, and the most simple and effective OS yet on a phone is what I'm expecting. It'll be good, for those of us who've embraced the future of GSM.
jW
nem3015
macrumors member
Well last year some Taiwan company announced 1 Terabyte flash cards and and an optical zoom is not that huge nowadays... I just want one device for everything instead of carrying 4... but as I said is just a wish... however give it some time... 2 or maybe 3 years? you will see...😀AvSRoCkCO1067 said:
poppe said:
If the aim is to compete in the new world of MP3 playing phones, then going for a small carrier (even worse an IS95 one) would be a disaster. A small percentage of a small carrier's customers would have the phone, everyone else would have a competitor. Wouldn't work.
Really? The 100 song limit is true in non-Cingular ROKRs as I understand it, and from everything I read, this was an Apple imposed limitation (this was early on in the Apple mobile phone story, and they were concerned about the ROKR taking share away from the iPod.)skywalker said:
I can't say for definite it was Apple (though who else would want that limit?), but it certainly wasn't Cingular.
woodman said:
That would be a dramatic new business model, and wouldn't serve the end game of trying to retain market control in an environment where most future phones play MP3s.
It isn't going to happen. There will be no Apple designed and sold cellphone. There will be phones with Apple technology, licensed, from all the big cellphone makers, but it would be a disaster for Apple to try to retain control by entering the cellphone manufacturing market. They would become a tiny player, they'd lose control over the MP3 playing market, they'd almost certainly lose money, and their products would end up being "undesigned" by the traditionally intrusive carriers who, as a rule, really don't like subsidizing phones without branding them.
I know a lot of people want Apple phones. Likewise, a lot of people want an Apple PDA. Or just a mid-range non-integrated Mac. But there's a bottom line here, and the only major reason Apple would enter the market is the same one that says they'd be suicidal to try to do so with a product, rather than a licensible technology.
Dr.Gargoyle
macrumors 65816
Couldn't it be just like iTMS? That is, some functionality isn't available outside US.gekko513 said:
If Apple introduces an iPhone I would be very surprised if it didn't support GSM. If the phone supports GSM (like a nano with calling capabilities) it strikes me as complete madness to restrict sales within US, particulary when they have a HUGE market (20 times larger) outside US. Ok, so some US-specific funtionality might not be available here in Europe, but isn't it a bit drastic to keep it US-only?
Especially considering that Apple would be the first manufacturer to introduce a GSM phone that is sold in one market only. 😕
poppe
macrumors 68020
Has that been posted already?
This looks awesome.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/02/ichat-mobile-is-it-the-iphone-part-forty-bajillion/
This looks awesome.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/02/ichat-mobile-is-it-the-iphone-part-forty-bajillion/